AMA and the FAA Registration Process

659 comments

Today the FAA announced plans for a model aircraft registration process to begin next week. AMA was a member of the task force that helped develop recommendations for this registration rule and argued throughout the process that registration makes sense at some level but only for those operating outside the guidance of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes.

Unfortunately, the new FAA registration rule does not include our advice. The rule is counter to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft and makes the registration process an unnecessary burden for all of our members who have been operating safely for decades.

While we are disappointed with the new registration rule and still maintain that AMA members should be exempt from registration, the rule is being implemented over AMA objections. Therefore, we want to provide you with important information about the registration rule and how AMA members can comply with the new federal requirements:

• All aircraft that are flown using a ground control system, such as a transmitter, are required to participate. This includes fixed-wing aircraft, not just multirotors or drones.
• Any pilot flying models weighing between .55 pounds (or 250 grams) and 55 lbs is required to register.
• You will not be required to register every aircraft individually. You only need to register yourself and can affix one registration number to all your aircraft.
• You must mark all aircraft with your registration number. The number can be inside the aircraft, such as a battery hatch – but should not require tools to access.
• The FAA plans to launch the online registration website on Monday, December 21.
• There is a $5 fee to register, which is waived if you register within the first 30 days.
• You only need to register once every 3 years.
We are still working out the logistics for this process. Some details are still being discussed, including:

• We are seriously discussing with the FAA a system where your AMA number could be used as your federal registration number as well. At this point, this is only a proposal and details are not yet finalized.
• At this time, AMA members will not automatically be registered when the registration website launches next week. However, we are in conversations with the FAA about the best way to streamline the registration process for AMA members going forward.

This is an ongoing process and we will continue to provide updates on the registration rule. Stay tuned to modelaircraft.org/gov, social media and your email for the latest news on the registration process.

Thank you,
AMA Government Relations and Advocacy Team

659 comments

  1. So just to clarify, the AMA is just going along with the IFR, instead of challenging its validity? You state it is counter to the 2012 ACT, but yet no mention if injunctions are being considered.

    1. here here what kind of but kissing was this.i thought ama was gonna protect our rights.i called in here last year to ask about a 333 exemption nobody knew anything but now you guys have all the answers.come on somebody has to know a lawyer.

    2. Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors. Owners may use either the paper-based process or the new streamlined, web-based system. Owners using the new streamlined web-based system must be at least 13 years old to register.

      https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19856

      1. Actually the FAA has a statutory requirement to EXEMPT AMA members from this registration process! The Special Rule for Model Aircraft has carve-outs for AMA members and members of similar organizations. Simply put, the FAA lacks the authority to require AMA members to register.

        I’m with the original poster, there needs to be an injunction against this registration process until the legalities have been sorted out.

        As this registration scheme runs contrary to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, the AMA has NO CHOICE but to file for injunction before the rule kicks in.

        The FAA has already acted in bad faith by doing a propaganda campaign against model aircraft in the months leading up to this. And again in appointing a task force with limited time needed to properly explore this issue and determine the limits of their authority in this matter, and then ignoring their findings (despite the lack of adequate time).

        If you read what happened at the task force meeting, they opened up by informing all the participants that the assumption moving forward was that the FAA had the authority to require registration and that practical matters such as the The Special Rule for Model Aircraft would not be taken into account, shutting down the AMA’s argument right out of the box. Another example of the FAA’s bad faith in this matter.

        This matter is clear, the law that directs the actions of the FAA on this issue is being ignored by the FAA, and this directly impacts the AMA’s responsibility to it’s members. An injunction is the next step…

      2. ” Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. …any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register …”

        Must register? What if you never fly previously-flown UAS again? Must the ones in my possession be registered even if they are never flown? It’s a serious question, because text you keep quoting is ambiguous in this regard.

      3. What are the details of using the paper based system? I would like to know.

        How is a 15 year old kid supposed to register the quad drone he bought with his paper route money via the FAA website when he doesn’t have a credit card to pay the $5 refundable fee?

        1. Kids delivering newspapers? Come on now. Home deliver is an anachronism, as are the newspapers themselves.The few newspaper deliver folks that I know are adults trying to supplement their meager income. Let the youngste’s parent register their drones at the point of purchase, or let them fly paper airplanes.

          1. A kid CAN NOT even fly a paper airplane without registering with the FAA, according to the FAA, they have authority over ANY thing that flies in NAS. Isn’t it nice to know the government, in essense, owns the skies and the very air you breathe?

      4. You did not answer the question. Is the AMA considering or going to consider filing a lawsuit based on Congress stated purpose of the 2012 ACT??

      5. Do not repeat the same comment, answer the question. When is the AMA going to seek a temporary restraining order on the basis of Section 336 of FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012. This appears directly on point and supercedes/precludes the aforementioned regulation.

      6. Federal law, exempts ALL recreational radio conttrol aicraft, and the faa’s imposition is in violation of federal law… So the FAA can stick it where the sun don’t shine… page 72, Sec 336 exempts all model aircraft for recreational use under 55 pounds… Regulators said screw the law, doing it anyways… Do not comply, it is up to 3 years in prison, $25,000 civil fine, $250,000 criminal fine, and a federal felony conviction……… for all rc aircraft… NOT drones. The actual law, FAA are in violation: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CRPT-112hrpt381/pdf/CRPT-112hrpt381.pdf

      7. So what exactly is the government going to accomplish other than increasing government employment. People that violate airspace won’t register. Kind of like asking Isis to register their guns. If they want to oversee operations like Amazon, that might be a different consideration.

        1. Not government employment, the system will be run by a private contractor. The FAA already has 3 private contractors working for them on various programs.
          Also, the FAA has admitted that the $5 fee will still come up $327 million short of funding the Registration program.

          1. After the first 3 years, do you have to re-registered again and pay another $5.00 or is this price going to increase too?

        2. Follow the money trail- the government wants control over the 2.4 gig band for increased communication needs – remember the 72/75 mhz shift several years ago- to free up band width for—communications.

      8. I am a new member of the AMA and am rather disappointed in the representation provided thus far. The invitation by the FAA and DOT to participate in this rule making was only a CYA move. The AMA’s input was meaningless from the GITGO ! IMHO.

    3. This rule is a joke. Another overreach by our federal government.
      If AMA goes along with this insane rule I no longer will remain a member.

    4. This is simply another perfect example of the tyranny of government infringing on peoples rights under the excuse of “terror threat” and moving toward a police state. A famous man once said “Rights not exercised are rights soon lost”. “Papers please, papers!!!!!”

      1. Yes, we are simply being farmed. $5 every 3 years. We are being sold back our right to pursue happiness. Nearly all natural rights are outlawed and sold back to us in one form or another.

    5. AMA#9589, member since ’58.
      This is just another Government tax. This time on model airplanes, which, of course, will go up. There’s three choices; either comply, quit the hobby or refuse to register. IF anybody refuses to register, they open themselves up for a Government raid at 3:00 AM (thanks to neighbors reporting ‘suspicious’ activity to the police. You know it and I know it. That’s the reality of our totalitarian, dictatorial government at this time in 2015.
      This won’t stop with model airplanes. RC Boats, cars and 4 wheelers are next. Thay can be packed with enough explosives to do serious damage. This is just the start, fellow modelers. I will register, for awhile. If it becomes to cumbersome and opressive, I’ll simply quit the hobby.

      1. #1538. Had to add back a 2 on the end when I stopped being a CD back in the 90’s. I have been in this hobby since the late 50’s and I remember having to have an FCC license “back in the day”. My main reason for keeping up my membership was that our leadership was working for the protection of the greatest hobby on earth. If they don’t fight this I have no reason to remain a member. I know we have some lawyers who still believe in the constitution.

      2. The rule could have been done in good faith, but at the moment, it seems quite draconian. You would think they will require mandatory registration of chainsaws, flamethrowers, or something of the sort, but instead they are going after, what is at best, a computer and camera on propellers that no sane person wants to crash. I signed up for AMA right before this announcement and now my drone just sits around collecting dust. Not because I don’t have training, or experience in flying, but because I don’t want some bozzo asking me “Papers, please”. Is there any common sense going on here or are we going to just be forced to register, and hey, maybe if lucky, with AMA number?

    6. I am and AMA member and vice-president of my Flying Club. I have about 40 flying RC craft. This is ludicrous. This will make it impossible to sell any of your old RC flying craft. Imagine selling one of your old RC craft and some idiot using it to cause destruction, yep it’s great your number on it. there you go to jail. At this point you can never even let someone borrow your rc craft because I have the number registered to you. getting every law abiding citizen to register their flying Rc airplane, excuse me UAS, is not going to stop anyone intent on creating terror!

    7. Mad as hell! Won’t renew my membership if this is not resolved. Sent a letter to local paper as well as state senators. Maybe if papers , tv news stations and politicians are flooded with outrage we can beat this!!!

    8. From where I am sitting, I believe the only way the FAA can make the skies safer with these rules is through intense enforcement (mainly by the use of large fines). This would, over time, destroy both the hobby and the industry that it supports. This would certainly clear the sky of UAS’s as I suspect is the primary intention of the FAA. Perhaps it is time for me to retire my r/c aircraft. I do have quite a few rubber powered airplane kits collecting dust. I don’t think these qualify as UAS’s.

      Seriously, who wants to be the FAA’s first test case. If you are caught flying a UAS and are not registered they state that they can assess civil penalties up to $27,500 and criminal penalties up to $250,000 and/or 3 years imprisonment. I am not sure what they will do to you if you are caught flying 4.7 miles from an airport, which is within the 5.0 mile exclusion zone that you should not be flying in. (gosh, are model airplane pilots supposed to have sectionals so that they know where all the airports are and be able to figure out how far they are from them? That’s asking a lot. Learning how to use one takes some education.)

      The FAA has evolved over the years into a system that supports private and commercial aviation to make it safe. I would like to suggest that the FAA support, rather than abuse, UAS aviation to make it safe. This can be done by working with members of the UAS community.

      Sincerely,
      Don Adams

    9. Been a member since 1975. You 2 bit sell outs can take my membership and put it where the sun doesn’t shine. I refuse to sign up and will not renew my membership until you sell outs file a lawsuit against this.

    10. It seems that the major increase in AMA dues was not enough to influence legislation and keep the regulatory dogs off of our backs!

    11. I agree I think we should be attacking the registration in court and seek an emergency restraining order to keep it from going into affect. Its time to get rough not cave by supporting the process.

    12. DOES MY 9 YEAR OLD WHO FLYS MODEL AIRCRAFT NEED TO DO THIS OR ARE THEY SAYING SHE CAN FLY NO MORE?

      1. from the FAA FAQs
        https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
        Q. Is there a minimum age requirement?
        A. Yes. You must be 13 years of age or older before you are permitted to register an unmanned aircraft. If the owner is less than 13 years of age, then a person who is at least 13 years of age must register the unmanned aircraft.

    13. It was my understanding that what ever the ama suggested in those meetings was either disregarded, or, they weren’t even given the opportunity to speak. they are trying to work out a deal so that our ama numbers would automatically make us in compliance but I doubt the powers that be are interested in working with the ama on anything. These people only want to show the voters that they have done something to handle the problem even if it is BS.

      1. There has never been an government agency that is not constantly trying to expand it’s size and reach into our pockets. This is a fine example of why we need to oppose expansion no mater the reason. It’s always at the expense of Liberty to gain more over-seer jobs, more benefits and more retirements for the people farmer class.

    14. So, with no countermeasures proposed against this standard FAA overstep of boundaries, where is the value in being an AMA member? Are we going to take it in the shorts without a whimper? I have worked in the aviation industry for 50+ years and the only way to counter FAA’s very predictable overstep is to get in their face. If AMA isn’t going to do that based on clear and very visible illegalities, then you can have my membership card. Come on folks! Lets stand up here!

    15. Another example of irrational/ineffective controls being imposed on citizens by lame governance agencies trying to increase revenue and justify their existence.
      The potential results:

      Everyone knows it’s business as usual for folks who find it amusing to deploy an R/C model aircraft in an inappropriate fashion. Can’t fix a propensity for antisocial behavior with a registration number or any threat of consequence!

      I actually think this is analogous to categorizing aero modelers as are sex offenders. Now someone sees a “drone” in their neighborhood, calls the brain police and the gestapo starts knocking on the doors of everyone on the hit list within a 5 mile radius! Search and destroy all R/C models!

      And who will police this? Well the police of course, it’s gonna’ be law! The FAA can’t juggle their current array of plates! So if you happen to be lucky enough to find a place where you’re still allowed to fly an R/C aircraft (besides an AMA club field – assuming you’re still an AMA member), rest assured that eventually someone in some sort of enforcement capacity is going to shake you down. Perhaps in your own back yard! And then the real fun begins!

      Shakedown scenarios: Law enforcement person wants to see your official “drone” registration. You don’t have one, because your ship is under .55 lbs. What a convenient weight parameter – 8.8oz, no doubt arrived at by a team of crack astro-physicists…

      So the law enforcement person picks up your ship, shakes it a few times and determines it’s actually .56lbs (Yea, they used to work in a carnival and are really good at guessing weight or will whip out their certified electronic drone scale that will soon be standard field issue).

      So since you’re in violation, a citation will be issued and perhaps you’ll pay a fine. Now should you be brazen enough as to question this, your ship will probably be confiscated and perhaps you’ll be issued a summons to appear in court. Now here’s where it could go horribly wrong!

      If you are like a lot of folks who have had enough of rights violations and bullying, you may be compelled to engage in some dialog or even deliver some disparaging comments AKA: shoot off your mouth. And if the law enforcement person, (who’s training coupled with their lack of sleep has now put them in Combat Mode) believes that battery checker in your pocket is a deadly weapon, may just shoot you 20 or 30 times as you try to escape! Which may be preferable to being stripped searched for aero modeling contraband!

      Sound impossible? Watch the national news.

      I believe that very soon, it will be illegal to fly any motorized R/C aircraft anywhere other than sanctioned fields. There are already plenty of signs in parks and school properties forbidding all sorts of safe, fun things. Just add ALL R/C OPERATION PROHIBITED and that’s it. Regarding other properties, “No Trespassing” covers it. The law can and will chase you off – or worse! They don’t care about a registration number!

      Four years ago, I was rudely chased out of a local park (on an evening when no one other than myself and the park ranger were there) for flying a 130 size CP heli. His words “we don’t allow that here” although no signs indicated such. I was just glad he didn’t see the 600 size ship I had in the trunk or I’d probably be MIA!

      I guess if the violation of civil rights doesn’t bother you, and you still embrace paying AMA and club dues for the privilege of doing something that is literally a constitutional right (remember life, liberty and pursuit of happiness?) and there is an AMA sanctioned field in your area that isn’t a an intolerable snobitorium, you’re gonna be OK as long as you don’t stray off of the property.

      As far as I’m concerned, this whole debacle is unfortunately also yet another example of the AMA being a mosquito without a stinger. They were so far behind the developmental curve on this governance inevitability as to not even be in the game. And so now to celebrate they’re achievement they raise dues, even for seniors who can least afford it. I’m out.

      I’m certainly not going to submit to another governmental “rubber stamp” slammed on my forehead and if I were, I certainly would not use a credit card on a funky .gov website to pay for it.

      So even though I have always and will continue to abide by all sensible regulations of safe operation of my MANY airships, I guess I’ll be going fugitive in the future and, excuse the pun – “flying under the radar”. I’m an old man whose seen enough to know when I’m being harassed and too much is enough.

      Blessings everyone and happy – flying???

      1. Actually, I disagree that our local police departments will enforce any of this. Local police do not enforce federal law. It will be up to the feds to find a way to enforce their draconian practices.

        1. We are only reporting what the FAA has told us. You are correct, we are not clear how or why local law enforcement will be appointed to deal with Federal issues.

          1. The only question I have at this point is the 400′ ceiling within only within ” X” miles of an airport.
            It used to be ok per AMA to fly above that if your site is away from an airport – if 400′ is max EVERYWHERE , then many aspects of rc are dead .
            Turbines, sailplanes ,ANY high performance aircraft needs to break 400′ during the flight
            Most are surprised to see live altitude readings when I’m flying jets and other fast and large planes.
            Is there definitive wording from FAA regarding the max altitude allowed anywhere away from airports and flightpaths ??
            Lousy governments now going after my toys!

          2. Can you see it chad. The RC police checking every house in america for unregistered rc pilots.OMG.

          3. The Ma. State police are already involved in trying to find a UAV operator who was flying near runway 22 at Logan Airport. Jet Blue filed a report. The drone was seen a second time a couple of days later by another airline near the same runway. The Boston Globe reported the story. State police are investigating. So much for having federal oversight. Looks like the State police are going to be the enforcers. The registration will no doubt have police knocking on every door that has a registered drone operator in Boston and Cambridge. Enforcement has already begun.!! A week ago federal drones were in the skies over Boston (and Cambridge) looking for something. Possibly could be related. I live 4.7 miles from Logan in Cambridge, so by Federal Standards I am not supposed to fly at my home location. What happened to the “decreasing ceiling”, that DJI has in their software. At 5 miles you can fly at 400 ft decreasing linearly to 25 feet once you are 3 miles from the airport. Inside of 3 miles your drone wont start and will land by itself. The whole mess sucks. I have read other stories that are reporting the FAA has asked all pilots to report any small flying object as a consumer drone to increase the numbers of “close calls” reported. Someone else said this right here: The US govt. wont be happy until all areas except sanctioned fields are off limits. Our entire federal park system is off limits because of safety and noise. But full size Helicopters are able to fly in the parks. Does That make any sense? The Govt. is stepping on the powerless individual who is just trying to have some fun. The no fly areas now include many state parks. A full size helicopter was being used by local police to try to crash a small UAV with it’s rotor wash. Maybe some of you read that story. The UAV operator saved his craft, but the park ranger told him to stop flying. Nothing was posted, and nothing was written that excluded UAVs. But the park police have the final word anyway. I thought this hobby was going to be lots of fun, but now all I can see is trouble ahead.
            Full size aircraft are not supposed to fly below 1000 feet in a densely populated area, but small planes do it all the time in Cambridge. And it’s not because they just took off at Logan. Between Logan and Cambridge there are some pretty tall buildings. They are just sight seeing recreational pilots disobeying the rules. But that’s all right. Ok Enough with the rant. Someone or group has to protect the rights of the aero-modeler. The AMA should be doing more.
            FYI: I do follow all the current common-sense rules. I don’t fly at my home location. I fly well under 400 ft. more like 150 ft. I maintain line of sight contact with my craft, and I never fly over people or roads. Logan is walled off by Boston’s skyscrapers, so I should be able to use the park closest to my home. I think the 5 mile rule is excessive, unless the FAA will agree to the “decreasing ceiling” implemented by DJI.

            Teri

    16. Don’t you people realize that we are at WAR with the rest of the ‘uncivilized’ world. There are people that want to kill us, just because we kill them for living on land that the ‘god’ they invented, gave to the ‘god’ that invented that ‘god’. As these ‘wars’ continue and America, now the colony of Israel, is forced to kill, die and pay TRILLIONS of USA taxes, so that Israel can remain a homeland for ‘god’s’ ‘chosen people, that MORE AND MORE of ‘our’ freedoms will be taken away, all in the name of ‘fighting terrorism’. As the evidence so clearly shows, the only TERRORISTS are those of ‘our’ corrupted ‘politicians’, loyal only to their bank accounts and those insane people that ‘NEED’ to take land away form Palestinians, because ‘god’ gave it only to the JEW, that invented that ‘god’. IF I ‘offended anyone, to goddamn bad. Telling the truth is only ‘offensive’ to the people that are guilty. Although they might not believe they are ‘guilty’ and would rather we blame the ‘god’ that chose them, instead of the PERPATRAITORS of the insane crimes over a piece of CRAP land that ‘god’ gave only to the JEW that invented that ‘god’. There I said it. Now tell me what I said that isn’t TRUE.

      1. Joe Magnets,

        At the very least, Sir, you need a thorazine drip!You have shown to the rest of the community exactly the type of person you are. NOW,FOCUS, Please!

        This is another Government over reach that we, the AMA and ourselves, need to hit our Congress people with. Your rant serves only to show we do have some nuts in our ranks.

        I believe in Israel’s rights as I believe in Jesus Christ. I also believe you have the right to spill your venom as you will. I just thank my GOD that he has given you, and us, the right to exercise our voices. I’m also thankful, and praying, your position is only on this site.

        I will continue to pray for you and hope you will seek help!

    17. I tried educating myself on the matter, and was unable to find mention on the FAA’s website about registering model planes and helicopters. It references UAS. Please read the definition of a UAS vs. Model Aircraft.

      Here’s the link:
      https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/#qn1

    19. I will not be registering anything. This is to idiotic to even participate in. Who will be enforcing this law? Local PD, State police? I don’t think so. Will our models weight be checked before a violation is issued? If it wasn’t such a highly published issue in our AMA magazine who would even know about the law

      1. Mr. Darella,

        I don’t know if you watch tv or listen to radio but it has been plastered all over the news in Maryland, especially in the “Great State of Montgomery County”

    20. As an advances heli and fixwing pilot and builder I believe drones should have never been released to people that have never flown any remote device without some type of mentoring. I also believe the AMA failed us when they didn’t see the obvious danger of these drones in the hands of the casual mall stroller and immediately called for regulation only on these devices. Now we all have to suffer. What if someone uses my registration number to do some harm? The fact that drone drones can travel great distances should have been red flag. Sad day for such a great hobby.

      1. The only thing I observed the AMA doing while this was coming to a head over the last few years was fawning all over itself in anticipation of all the new revenue it was going to make off of the FPV quadflopper scene. I don’t build or fly Unmanned Aerial Systems I build and fly Model Airplanes.

    21. Thew AMA should be filing a lawsuit and an injunction immediately! This is one of the things AMA members are paying for. AMA members flying models at an AMA sanctioned flying field must be fully exempted from this. AMA ACT NOW!

    22. This situation is truly embarassing for the FAA. They say they are prviding this regulation for safety, hogwash!. There are several underlying things here. The FAA thinks that by registering folks that fly rc aircraft they will have done something great for homeland security. At least this will appear to all of us as this is what they want us to believe .Num 2. Amazon will need alot of airspace for their delivery drones. There is alot of money being thrown around. I have a friend who is a consultant for very large corporations and this came from him. One of his comments was that rc aircraft in general are low flying.(they could get in pathway of comercial drones). GPS aircraft are still line of sight.! Think about this for a second. There are several thousand unregistered ultralight aircraft that fly every day, BUT heres the kicker. They have to maintain a specific altitude IAW the FAA regulations. Im no expert here by any means, but it seems that everytime a regulation is forced on americans there only two reasons why, power, and money. Regulations like these waste several million dollars of taxpayer dollars and just like the gun laws DO NOT prevent bad guys from doing bad things. The AMA has a true to life agenda. They really do care about safety. Every month we can read about it. What has the FAA done for you lately except to try to force a set of UNLAWFULL and illegal regulations on us rc guys. I know im nobody here in the grand scheme of things just dropping in my thoughts on this matter.

  2. I see you’ve already embellished the definition of a UAS by adding “such as a transmitter” to it when the FAA site doesn’t say that. How about we get a hard set definition of a UAS before everyone has an aneurysm.

      1. It would then follow that any control line plane with a remote throttle (third control line) or electric control line with speed control would also need to be registered. (Read the fine print.) Hello yet another tax, nice to meet you.

      2. So we are paying 925,000 every 3 years to the FAA for this. What if we don’t register then what happens. So now the FAA are going to pay 20 people at most to enforce this rule or only when something happens it will be enforced. Can we claim this on our AMA insurance.

    2. Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors. Owners may use either the paper-based process or the new streamlined, web-based system. Owners using the new streamlined web-based system must be at least 13 years old to register.

      https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19856

      2. And how to they intend to prove how old the applicant is and I hope the site works better than the Obummer care site did.

    3. The FAA describes a drone or UAS as an aircraft that can be navigated in the airspace by a ground system which “includes the communication links and components that control the small unmanned aircraft along with all of the other elements needed to safely operate the drone.” We interpret this to mean any aircraft controlled by a transmitter would qualify as a drone.

      1. Would this also include any control line toy aircraft which are over .55 pounds?

        1. Tethered aircraft required registration, but the FAA also says only aircraft who use a ground signal (like a transmitter) require registration. Details are unclear, but at this moment CL may be exempt since they do not require a transmitter.

        3. That’s probably what the government wants you do do, it prevents them from an outright ban which would look draconian….

        4. Just another way to pick the pockets of the people who have no rights, but just
          benefits and privileges which can be given and taken way .

          Looks like the terrorists win again …..

        5. What the hell you folks are gutless!!! What will you do when they come to take your wife and children to a FEMA camp for retraining… America is the same country that whipped the Japs and the Germans in WW2. What happened to cause you to have no balls. You should quit the hobby and ship all your gear to my house for re-training. I’ll take it gladly and get my registration number and work at undermining this crap. The greatest problem is gutless, feckless brain-empty fools in the general public that don’t know the difference between a predator drone, a child’s toy, or a dji phantom. We gotta teach them one at a time. I bring this stuff up with strangers and family and try to share this wonderful hobby and educate folks at walmart, work, hell anywhere. The American people have become incredibly mentally lazy and will believe what the media and government tells them until someone tell them different.

          2. The only number I’m putting on my aircraft is Section #336!

            I’m not going to be intimidated of my rights.
            I will not register ANYTHING, Not even my name.
            The FAA can go to hell.
            We’re not violating ANY law! But the FAA is!

      2. Don’t quit. Fight! Just remember who was in charge when this went down. The FAA is under DOT which is under the Executive Branch – the head of which is our President. This falls under “Nanny State” feel-good rule-making by appointed bureaucrats. Remember which party wants more control over your personal life when you vote in November. “Freedom isn’t free.” “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.”

        “The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.”
        Edmund Burke
        1729 – 1797

    2. Good timing at the end of year, great time to NOT pay for AMA dues. Been with ya long time, looks like the gov is taking over. AMA Is no longer needed.

      Obama is in charge now!

      Keith

    3. This is what happens when low intelligence bureaucrats get together. They need to “do” something. How about registering and tagging all birds over .55lbs. That would keep the idiots busy. I can’t reiterate strongly how this does absolutely nothing except create a bureaucratic mess. So now the local cop is going to stop and see if I have a sticker on my UMX plane while I explain to him that it is less than .55 lbs and doesn’t require the stupid registration? Who is going to enforce this? I think law enforcement would be better off focusing on the real terrorists rather than model airplane flyers. All this nonsense about drones and aircraft is ridiculous. Airliner landing speeds are ~140kts and up. How is my fastest 50mph airplane ever going to catch up to one of them if I wanted to – and before it could get close I’m sure it would wash out. So far zero drone-aircraft collisions. How about just having law enforcement worry about laser pointers and Canadian Geese.

      I’m ashamed at the AMA for going along with any of this nonsense. They thought they could only require drone users and we would be ok. They thought that the “community based” nonsense would mean more AMA members or something. Well that backfired and now this is a mess. They should have lobbied hard against this idiocracy. Stand on principles – not on trying to artificially create membership. What a disappointment.

  4. Some of my aircraft do not have room for 2 sets of registration numbers. … I pay more then 50 for AMA membership @@nd now I am required to pay for another anoying registration number requirement?

    2. Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors. Owners may use either the paper-based process or the new streamlined, web-based system. Owners using the new streamlined web-based system must be at least 13 years old to register.

      https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19856

      1. This reply cows to the FAA. The AMA should step up for their members and insist our AMA number suffices.

      2. Statutory smatutory it’s a load of crap either way. Does the FAA honestly believe that people will comply? The bottom line is the feds have no idea what they are doing so they make it a requirement for everyone over the age of 13 to register. What’s next, RC Cars, Boats? They can kiss my grits…

    3. So…’sounds like you are flying a “micro” aircraft. How difficult is it to add one number or to pay $5 for this registration??? I agree that it is just another “unnecessary governmental process” but that’s how things are. The AMA is actively “fighting” this new rule and has been involved in the process for a long time…but so far the “powers that be” have prevailed.

    4. After the first 3 years, do you have to re-registered again and pay another $3.00 or is this price going to increase too?

    1. This is what happens when there is far to much government. I hope the new president and congress disbands and closes many useless branches of government and reduces a lot of funding to others. Our constitution calls for LIMITED government.

  6. Thanks for simplifying the 100+ pages of lawyer-fluff. Are there any signifigant changes as to how we can fly from the current A.M.A. guidelines?

    2. Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors. Owners may use either the paper-based process or the new streamlined, web-based system. Owners using the new streamlined web-based system must be at least 13 years old to register.

      https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19856

      1. Seeing this reply spammed is kind of annoying, Robert. You aren’t even addressing the person’s question. And to answer the question, Chris, not to my knowledge. I believe the hard cutoff is still 500 ft AGL, but call it 400 ft AGL to be safe. Also, line of visual sight. So no 15+ mile away flights like some people love to post on youtube (and arguable are part of the problem that are getting us reprimanded).

        If I’m wrong, my apologies. But that is to my understanding.

        Seabrook Whyte
        B.S.Aerospace Engineering
        M.S. Candidate MAE & UAS Engineering

      2. Uh, your link leads to the 100+ pages of fluff I was referring to.

        And do you have to repeat yourself on EVERY single post? ;-3)

    3. Check out page 41… They are now suggesting to lower the Max. weight of aircraft from 55lbs to 25lbs.

  7. It just seems stupid I already pay for AMA Membership, also pay for my flight club dues which those are fine with me.. But to make me pay, and register my foam board planes with the FAA, and pay a small fee just seems awful messed up. There foam board, and hot glue mostly i down graded to building my own to stay in the hobby.. I can see making multi-rotors have to be registered since they are what brought out this problem. Due to easy to buy, no experience needed, and people just being stupid by not respecting the rules that where already in place that was fine.. It so makes me want to just drop the hobby all together not like they can’t trace my aircraft by my AMA number already.. Think they should be more after these crazy foreigners who here shooting Americans than messing with my foam board planes .. Grrrrrr

      1. Multirotors have been around for at least 10 yrs(?). I suspect it’s the advent of FPV that the government found so threatening. Put a pound of Semtex in your plane with FPV and what do you get? They now see an affordable weapons system, not a hobby. With that in mind it’s probably a matter of time before the whole hobby is outlawed. Amazing what fear can do…

        1. I tend to agree, I think that the multi-rotors being able to be flown without any training has enabled people that are uneducated about the do’s & don’ts of the hobby as it relates to the law. FPV flight is a violation of the law to in the first place because you are required to have line of sight at all times. All the videos posted showing people operating the FPV aircraft in a manor & an area that is obviously illegal is, in my opinion, a large driving factor behind all this. But the sad truth is that the problem people will not register & will continue fly in a dangerous & illegal manor.

          There was already laws on the books placing restrictions on how an R/C airplane is to be operated, but there is a serious lack of enforcement. As is always the case in recent history with the government, instead of enforcing the laws that are already there they want to create new laws that only serves to place more burden on the citizens that attempt to do things correctly because the there will still be no enforcement on the ones that either choose not to follow the laws or just flat don’t know the laws exist. All we really need is enforcement of the current laws, but they are almost unenforceable because you have to catch them in the act. Although they are plastering the evidence all over the internet with their name attached.

          Just my thoughts, for what it is worth……

    2. As with all things in life, a few idiots screw up things for those of us that follow the rules. Therefore the US government thinks that those of us that are registered AMA members should be regulated even more. It’s very similar to the whole gun control issue.

      I’m certain that the AMA requires all its members to include identifying information within all model aircraft that are flown under its sanctions. Why not just let the FFA have access to the members information rather than spend tax payer, and AMA member’s money, on creating this “new” registration system. It will do nothing more than duplicate the already existing registration of the AMA members?

      Why would anyone think that the problem people will register their aircraft? Of course they won’t if they are planning on doing something less than legal, or honorable with the aircraft. It’s like telling criminals they must register the gun they obtained from the drug dealer by trading crack for it. They will just buy the aircraft and do their dirty deed, and if the aircraft is confiscated, they only lose their money for the aircraft. It’s a no brainer.

      I saw a video on the national news this morning with some guy that was identified as a former executive from the FFA saying they only want the information as a point of contact for “educating” the people that fly model aircraft. BS! They want the information as a tool to start finding possible “suspects” in the area of an infraction of the FFA safety rules! If they wanted to get more education out to model aircraft flyers, again, they could do it through the AMA’s data base.

      It’s all about the federal government continuing to grown, and wanting to control every tiny aspect of all the citizens in the US.

      If you don’t believe it, watch the movie, “The Hunger Games”. That should be enough to scare you to death.

      Once again, it doesn’t pay to follow the rules! I will not be renewing my membership with the AMA.

      1. Pete, when you refer to the FFA, is that the Future Farmers of America?

        I would imagine that framers when like to use “drone” photo re-con to inspect their crops.

        1. Thanks Joe…I’m from the South, and FFA has a rather large following. Force of habit. I appreciate you correcting my mistake. FAA

    3. Come on guys quit crying about the 5 dollars. 3 years / $5 = less than 1 Big Mac. It’s the stupid people flying at planes, crashing into stadiums, and bouncing into sky scrapers that did this to us.

      1. Bob,

        People are sick and tired of Government OVERKILL. This starts out as a simple thing for $5.00, but if this stands, mark my words this is just the beginning of regulation and fees. Typical Obama style crap that big brother has to take care of you and watch over you because you are too stupid to know what is good for you.

        This is just the beginning.

      2. Agreed. This is how problems are solved these days. A few people screw over the many.

  8. I’ve been reading many conflicting “opinions” on the various blog sites. Specifically, is a control line airplane a “tethered UAS” or not? Also, the FAA seems to have completely discarded the possible “400′ altitude” rule. Is this true? AMA, please provide a reply specifically worded to the Control Line community in regards to the “FAA Rules” relating to registration, which at present seems to also apply to tethered aircraft that cannot fly above 80′.

    Thomas W. Smiley
    AMA 26652
    NACA President (North Alabama Controlline Association)
    Charter #4369
    Huntsville, AL 35803

    1. Originally CL was exempt from this process. We are now understanding that may no longer be the case. We are reviewing the details now and will be seeking clarification with the FAA and DOT.

      UPDATE: Tethered aircraft required registration, but the FAA also says only aircraft who use a ground signal (like a transmitter) require registration. Details are still unclear, but CL may be exempt since they do not require a transmitter.

      1. This is totally insane, how does a CL aircraft pose a threat?

        Will they go after the plastic scale model on my desk next?

          1. You hit the nail on the head…it’ll be an enormous revenue generator…and the people who are flying drones near aircraft will still do so and won’t bother to register their drones.

          2. The five bucks ain’t gonna break me. What really wrankles me is that our esteemed leaders were just SO anxious to embrace the multi-rotor phenom as the new frontier of “model” aviation.
            I’m STILL willing to bet it was heavily influenced by the slick ads that take up half of Model Aviation.

            So the FAA looks around now and says “Hmmmm…. so these things have an organizational focus point,eh? Well then, let’s do a CYA maneuver in case there’s some jerk that takes down an airplane. We’ll be able to point a finger at this organization and say that they weren’t policing themselves good enough. Then we’ll show them some real rules for their dangerous pursuits!”

      2. If control line is required to be registered in order to fly them, it will be good bye to AMA in which I have been a member since 1956 and only joined then so I could compete in the various events. I will still fly my control line planes when I want as I will not take part in contests any more and will not direct any more contests or events related to the AMA.

      3. What would is more dangerous to other aircraft, a CL flying in your back yard or a uncontrolled Free flight

    3. In the document
      https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf
      on page 46, it states:
      …”In response to these comments, the FAA notes
      that the definition of small UAS in this rule includes tethered powered small UAS.”

      The pdf file mentions “400 feet” three times in regards to questions of whether UAS that normally fly below 400 feet should be required to register. I guess the implied answer is yes, they do.

    4. Registration is a statutory requirement that applies to all aircraft. Under this rule, any owner of a small UAS who has previously operated an unmanned aircraft exclusively as a model aircraft prior to December 21, 2015, must register no later than February 19, 2016. Owners of any other UAS purchased for use as a model aircraft after December 21, 2015 must register before the first flight outdoors. Owners may use either the paper-based process or the new streamlined, web-based system. Owners using the new streamlined web-based system must be at least 13 years old to register.

      https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19856

    5. Anyone that has visited the NATS at Muncie during Free Flight week will notice a couple things, If you are competitive in FF POWER you are probably already breaching a 400 foot altitude limit on a 7 second engine run . Anyone flying FAI power that doesn’t bunt at 400 feet or higher will be to embarrassed to continue the sport in public. Also even Itty Bitty rubber power models and hand launched gliders will breach 400 ft if they get into a brick-lifter thermal. The only control the pilot has is the Engine shut off timer and the DT mechanism setting “done before launch” So I guess there is no class of AMA aircraft that will be exempt from this “registration process.

  9. So just to clarify, the AMA is just going along with the IFR, instead of challenging its validity? You state it is counter to the 2012 ACT, but yet no mention if injunctions are being considered.

    However, $1.67/yr is pretty insignificant. And for the first three years it’s free if you register before Feb. Do the free registration and maybe by then the FAA and AMA can hash out some sort of agreement.

    This really isn’t that bad. It could have been MUCH MUCH worse. Like $5/plane per year….or more.

    1. It’s a matter of principal. Uneducated bureaucrats shooting from the hip. This will do absolutely NOTHING to stop the behavior they are claiming it will stop.

      1. Agreed, it is the principal. They are writing a “rule” that violates law passed by Congress. File for an injunction!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    4. Dell,

      Since when doesn’t the government raise anything? FREE, or $5 now but who knows 5 years down the line. This is just a start. I was born, but it wasn’t yesterday.

      Wally

    5. If $1.67/yr is “pretty insignificant”, how much would you be willing to pay to have the government regulate yet another part of your life? You go ahead and give them more of your money, your e-mail address, and credit card number. As for me, they can pound sand. I’ll throw the f-ing things away before I sign up for another government number.

        1. But that is exactly what they want you to do. I say we should support AMA in fighting this.

          1. I just renewed for a two-year membership, so they can take my dues and try to fight. But when they lose, my point stands.

      2. Good point about submitting your personal information and credit card number
        on a government web site. Is this site going to be as insecure and inefficient as the Affordable Care Act(Obama care)web site? Whoops! Just one
        more thing to worry about and take the fun out of our hobby.

    6. The point is not the $1.67. As you say, we gladly pay club and AMA dues.

      It is the FAAs disregard for a law passed by Congress, it is about a solution to a non-existant problem, and about the government gathering personal information on people involved in a safe hobby. The FAA reports of drone sightings and near collisions are totally without merit, but have been repeated enough times that they are taken as true. The FAA agreed (Memorandum of Understanding) to respect model aircraft hobbyists, and then sticks it to them at every turn. It is the FAA making new rules that is says are not rules, and disregarding the established rule making process.

      That is why we are upset.

      1. How do you get that these idiots flying quadcopters near airports are without merit? I have read first hand accounts from pilots stating the opposite of what you say. I have watched interviews with pilots complaining about morons in the flight path. So to argue there isn’t some problems with thoughtless people flying where they shouldn’t doesn’t serve anyone.

        There is a problem. How the FAA chose to address that problem is the question now, and it appears they have gone well beyond what is needed. But to say there isn’t a problem with the technology getting ahead of common sense is flat out wrong. It is only a matter of time until we have fatalities due to this stupidity. Obviously education and very narrow regulations on the likely offenders would be better than what we just got, but again, don’t argue there isn’t an issue here.

      2. Unfortunately we need the next president or VP to be a model aviation fanatic and go in and clean house at the FAA. I’d fire every single person in the FAA that had anything to do with this decision. The FAA has antiquated air traffic control and spending one minute on something like this which is of no value just shows how delusional they really are. The greatest risk to civil aviation is the FAA and their antiquated ATC system. How about that fire in the midwest that took down the entire ATC corridor there. How about addressing stuff like that.

        This is all about anti-technologist lazy lawyers fearing technology.

    7. This is not a new rule. Registration has been required of ALL aircraft for decades, but the FAA has ignored model aircraft until now.

      What may be in conflict with with the FRMA is that 14 CFR § 1, ‘definitions and abbreviations’, definitions for “model aircraft,” “small unmanned aircraft,” “small unmanned aircraft system,” and “unmanned aircraft” are added. The definitions added are exactly the definitions in Section 336 of the FRMA that the FAA interpreted into a Special Rule last year. The Special Rule” prompted two lawsuits and enforcement of the Special Rule is currently in abeyance by a court order.

      The definitions in 14 CFR § 1 make BLOS and FPV illegal, thus a new rule.

    8. Mr. Shannon, In the past I have been involved with state legislators on several issues that required registration and/or licensing. Ultimately , to make a long story short, the states and the feds. Drag their feet severely unless they can figure a way to attach a dollar amount to it. I have never seen a fee remain static. If the AMA let’s the membership down and does not challenge this new requirement then you would be well advised to prepare for an increasingly worse atmosphere in the future.
      The AMA states several times in their notice that this legislation is directly opposed to what our Congress wanted. If this is true then the AMA and the membership should hit their representatives hard and have the act on this.
      One issue that really raises my hackles is the Consitution of the United States of America states only the two congressional houses can make and pass laws, therefore, I say all “laws” put into place by agencies such as FAA are not valid UNTIL they have been reviewed and passed by the governmental bodies that our founding fathers put in place to prevent out gov’t. officials from doing this very thing.
      I emailed some food for thought on drones to AMA a few years ago stating my concerns about the potential for illegal operations such as spying, casing property for theft, scoping deer populations, and etc. Working with gov’t. officials for more than 40years I was afraid that something like this mess would happen eventually. Another sad thing about this reg. Is if enough people drop r/c flying as a hobby the hobby shops and the model airplane supply industry will suffer. Has anyone noticed that the hobby industry is hurting financially already?

  10. This is BOUND to discourage young modelers AND older newcomers. As in ANY government agency, the rules are BOUND to get tougher and MORE CONVOLUTED until anyone flying ANY kind of model will likely be breaking some kind of FAA rule. WILL THE AMA PROVIDE A LEGAL DEFENSE FUND FOR THOSE AMA MEMBERS WHO UNKNOWINGLY BREAK FAA RULES????? I FOR ONE, know how government works, and that is to make SO MANY rules that EVERYONE is a lawbreaker who can be put away whenever the government so feels it is needed… Welcome to the end of a wonderful hobby.

    1. I completely agree, I have now stopped my winter project and plan on selling the planes I have. and have decided to give up the hobby.When the government gets their nose into our hobby its time to give it up and do something else.
      I have been flying radio control since 1977. bought my first radio in Stuttgart Germany and flew my plane at the baseball park at the patton ville housing area.
      This is damned disgusting to say the least

    2. Don’t forget that a few Obscenely Rich people and the Corporations are the real power hiding behind the curtain. The government isn’t always to blame for what is happening in this country. Sometimes they are just the messenger sent to do the dirty work and take the blame.

      1. Exactly! When are the people in this country going to stand up and say we had enough of this crap and start bringing these thugs to justice for bribing the lawmakers with their filthy greedy money. It’s time to clean house and prosecute these thugs to the fullest extent of the LAW. They can lie,cheat,steal,bribe and commit fraud without ANY accountability, but don’t you dare do it! They will fine and imprison you for doing what they do. No one is suppose to be above the LAW!!! No one!!! If they can get away with not complying with the LAW, then I should be able to do the same thing without ANY repercussions. And if they won’t allow me to do as they do, then that there my friends is discrimination. We need an organization like the NRA. Except we need to take it a step further. Whenever things like this happens with government over reach, we MUST ALL file class action lawsuits for discriminatory practices. These lawsuits must specifically name each and EVERY person involved with violating our RIGHTS and CIVIL RIGHTS and press criminal charges on each one. The government isn’t an entity. The government is the PEOPLE. You want accountability. Then start taking names and during each one involved with violating your Constitutional and CIVIL RIGHTS. Sue these individuals for accepting bribes from the wealthy elite. Prosecute them to the fullest extent of the LAW. Congress is already on our side. Whatever you do, DO NOT REGISTER!!! That’s a trap! Why you say? Because your voluntarily “agreeing” with the FAA that your operating “ILLEGALLY”
        The reality is, you don’t have to sign ANYTHING because that RIGHT has already been made LAW by the ACT OF CONGRESS!!! Don’t be duped into believing that you have no legal ground and that the FAA has the right to dictate your RIGHTS. They don’t have that right. The FAA, DOT and NTSB are the ones who are committing a criminal, discriminatory act. They are in VIOLATION. So what needs to happen now is we need to first file complaints with your Representatives and find a lawyer to start filing lawsuits, then find a federal DA to prosecute these thugs for accepting bribes. I’m going to continue to fly and support my hobby shops and my hobby. It’s my right because first of all, Congress made it a LAW. I’m doing nothing criminal by exercising that right. It’s my Constitutionional right to pursue happiness, and fly aircraft is what makes me happy. I’m not hurting anybody, I’m not bothering anybody, I’m not violating anyones right by doing so. They come after me for exercising my rights, then I’m suing for discrimation and violating my Constitutionional rights. I’m not going to live life in fear and I’m not going to let the government or anyone else terrorize any aspect of my life.

        “Give Me LIBERTY Or Give Me Death”
        Patrick Henry

  11. I have been flying RC airplanes and heli at my club’s field since 1968. The club has well over 125 members and has hosted all kinds of model flying events with zero problems using AMA rules. I can not believe the FAA is treating AMA members like this.

    A simple solution to the UAV problem is major public info campaign on flying rules and require a name and address on each UAV. FPV should have ham info marked as well. Enforcement would be simple with no other info required. No name and address on you UAV you are in violation!

    1. Who is going to enforce putting your name and address in your plane? And if it crashes and does some harm to someone, what are the odds that your name and address won’t be burned up anyway. If you believe that 2% of society is dishonest, than 2% of modelers are dishonest and they will put a fake name and address in the plane if forced to do so. I think 98% of modelers would probably own up to the damage. I don’t put my name and address on my golf balls, and they could probably do a lot more harm than a model airplane. I’d like to think that if I broke someone’s window I would just own up to it. To force 98% of a population to do something stupid because of 2% is just moronic. Department stores don’t frisk people on the way in and out of their stores because 2% of people steal. They put a minor amount into theft prevention, but they don’t invasively frisk the 98% of good customers to find the 2% bad apples. They just write it off. Life is not zero risk and nor is model aviation.

      1. Tecnicaly a golf ball is a has so pro golfers need to get in the old registration line too!

  12. 1.67 for three years doesn’t sound that bad but remember who we are dealing with here ! They will find more ways to bleed more money out of this. Just saying

    1. ya.. like tossing you in jail for flying a hand launch glider.. GET REAL!!! THIS HAS TO GO .. WHEN A REPUBLICAN IS ELECTED>> THIS SHOULD BE A S>I>G developed SPECIAL ISSUE THAT IS BROUGHT BEFORE THE PRESIDENT SOMEHOW

  13. Please provide instructions on how club-owned aircraft flown by multiple individuals should be registered and/or marked with a registration number. Our club has several aircraft that are used for flight instruction under the Introductory Pilot Program. It would be helpful if these aircraft could carry the registration number of each of our instructor pilots. Allowing only one registration number on each aircraft would prevent an aircraft from being flown legally if the associated instructor pilot is not present. Is it “legal” to use Velcro or some other temporary means of attaching a registration number so it can be changed easily to match the pilot?

    1. The FAA FAQs address this question.

      Q. If I let someone borrow my drone do I have to give them the Certificate of Registration?
      A. Yes, anyone who operates your drone must have the Certificate of Aircraft Registration in their possession. You can give them a paper copy, email it to them, or they can show it electronically from the registration website.

      1. OMG!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS BECOMING JUST TOO MUCH FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!! anyone what to buy ALL me rc stuff i have accumulated since 1974, CHEAP!!!!!!!! 971-237-4663

      3. a model airplane is NOT a drone. END OF STORY AMA!!! YOU sell OUT!!! TIME TO FIND A NEW VOICE TO REPRESENT US AMA MEMBERS!! TIME TO END THIS ORGANIZATION.. WHAT DO I HEAR>. SPA.. REMEMBER THEM??

      4. I know this question will come up in our next meeting. Does this also mean that the student needs to be registered? I’m thinking of a new person that doesn’t even have an AMA card using a buddy box under the direct supervision of a club instructor. This could include someone that just drives up to watch us and would like to try.

        For AMA, please send the reply to my email as well. Thanks.

        1. The instructor. The person ultimately in control of the aircraft should be registered.

  14. I DO NOT want the FAA to have my name on this list. If there’s any concession, it should be that AMA members are exempt from the FAA registration. We already know how to fly safely and we already have a registration number.

    Of course it leads to this question: If a model is used in a crime of some kind and the AMA number is found, does the AMA give out the name of the owner to law enforcement? It’s something I’ve never thought to ask.

    1. Steven is quite right, in that instead of just telling us we have to put our name and address on or inside each plane, the FAA comes up with a scheme it thinks will cost hundreds of millions to operate, charging $5 to take your name and address, so they can give you a number, so you can put that on or in your plane, so someone finding it has to reach out to the FAA who will give them the name and address. What am I missing?

      Our outfit, the American Drone Registry, was already 100% prepared to do the registrations for free, and forward the data to the FAA, thinking they would accept “affiliate” registries to offer value-added services, the way the Internet’s Domain Name registries work: As long as we can exchange data with the FAA’s computers, we could compete for your business by offering value-added services. But it appears the FAA wants to keep all revenues for this idiotic non-value service to itself.

      Very disappointing. We are hoping to be one of the many people now offering our services to the AMA if this thing is inevitable.

      Keep the pressure on the FAA to (1) stop this un-needed step that bad guys won’t follow anyway, and (2) let responsible agents like the AMA and out outfit do this for the public for free (and not to worry about us entrepreneurs; we can find a way to make a buck on it somehow or got out of business: it’s the American Way).

      -Peter

    2. ITS TIME TO DEVELOP A NEW ORGANIZATION TO REPRESENT US.. REMBER THE SPORT MODELERS ASSOCIATION..??

    3. You are already required to display your name and address as well as your AMA number on your aircraft to comply with AMA rules … so any LEO should be able to find the owner without having to contact the AMA ….

  15. Easy fix. All new RC aircraft sold gets auto registered , unless buyer already is. But then you have overseas sales and scratchbuilt.

    1. Your statement itself explains why registering the aircraft themselves won’t work, “then you have overseas sales and scratchbuilt”. Having one number for anything you fly handles the overseas sales and the scratchbuilt items.
      “Easy fix”, hardly. I’m glad your not in charge of “easy fixes”.

  16. I think the AMA should have pushed hard to differentiate traditional modelers from camera carrying drones.

    Traditional modelers primarily derive enjoyment from the aircraft flying and building, the aviation part. The “M” in AMA

    Most of these new drone buyers are not modelers but are just using the thing as a camera platform, a “flying tripod” as it were. You should have moved to differentiate traditional model aircraft as those sUAS without a camera.

    Congress should only be worried about camera carrying sUAS. All the rest are model aircraft. We could have avoided all of this.

    1. I agree with Matt here. The AMA really left the the traditional model airplane community down. They should have not endorsed drones and quad copters as they did. I wrote a response to an AMA blog stating this and it lasted about 5 minutes before it was removed by the AMA. I have been a modeler and supporter of AMA for over 50 years but you really let us traditional modelers down this time.

      Steve in California

    2. Just because it carries a camera, should that make any replica model fixed wings with cameras exempt? There are plenty of people who fly this way. A quad rotor or hex rotor, however you define it, is still a model. I fly a quad rotor and I joined the AMA. I fly my quad and record the video and sometimes I fly it just for the sake of flying. The major problem is the FAA is establishing any RC craft that leaves the ground as a potential tool to be used by someone maliciously. What they fail to realize is people out there will not register because they don’t want to be caught doing whatever it is that they are doing! That’s like saying a crime committed with a gun can help track down the shooter because he was kind enough to register his firearm and then leave it at the scene of the crime. Laws are for honest people.

  17. it is not the money or the simple task of registering . it is the fact that the govt now feels they have the authority to monitor our hobby . if planes and helis were not included in this i wouldn’t be as apt to have an opinion. i have had my quads registered with the AMA for a while now. its not a big deal. but now all planes and helis are included in this drastic measure to monitor our once simple recreational hobby,. whats next . all quilters will be forced to register their needles? all artist to register their brushes. this is the Federal govt wasting tax payer dollars on monitoring a working mans HOBBY !! absurd !!! i feel a line was crossed here, this is the land of the free. but with each passing day more and more is not “free”. now we cant even fly a model helicopter in our back yard without informing the federal govt !! this is a slippery slope my friends.

    1. Very well written, I would agree with this 100%, AS WELL AS MANY OTHER STATMENTS
      hear.
      They Cannot Govern honest men sooo here we go.

  18. Dell Shannon … Please don’t put any ideas in their heads. It’s getting INSANE as it is now.

    1. I agree Dell. Some people are talking too negative. Focus on the positives and do not regurgitate negatives. Meditate and pray for peace and positive evolution. Our positive energy will lead the way. Focus and talk on all POSITIVES.

    1. From the FAA FAQ:

      Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?

      A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.

      2. Those penalties ($27500 and $250000) come from the FARs but are actually penalties for failure to register a manned aircraft. Mentioning them on the FAA website is obviously intended to intimidate the hobbyists into registering their models.
        Since there are no FARs (yet) for unmanned aircraft, there are no statutory (legal) penalties. Remember this is a “rule”, not a “regulation”. The FAA has been sitting on their hands for the past 8 years and has failed to release a formal FAR for unmanned aircraft (ignoring a Congressional Bill requiring them to do so by 2015). So now the FAA suddenly comes out with an emergency rule ? Keep in mind that The FAA, like all USG departments and agencies, react to political pressure. So the real origin of this ‘rule’ either came from the administration or other government agencies (such as DHS). Another tell-tail sign that this came from political pressure is that it’s inconsistent with other FARs such as Part 103 (ultra-lights) which doesn’t require aircraft registration or a pilot’s license !
        The reason the FAA picked aircraft registration to control drones (unmanned aircraft) comes from the limited legal options they had. Since there is no unmanned FARs, their attorneys apparently decided to use an old regulation that requires all aircraft to carry a registration number. Of course that regulation was intended for manned aircraft but the FAA’s attorneys have already defined unmanned aircraft (RC models) to be aircraft. Apparently the attorneys decided it would be enough authority to issue this special rule for unmanned aircraft.
        In my opinion, there are lots of opportunities to challenge this ‘Rule’ in court.

      1. GOVERNMENT- THE TRUE DOMESTIC TERRORIST!!! I love how the government terrorized its own people by threatening to fine and imprison them for exercising their RIGHTS. Freedom??? What freedom??? It’s donit or else! Do as we say or else! That’s not freedom. That’s terrorism and tyranny!!!

    3. From the Q&A on the FAAs site:

      “Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?
      A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.”

  20. Just what we need, more asinine government regulations…Does this also mean that someone flying a large kite has to register with the FAA?

  21. Really? Now what? Thank you AMA for nothing! This is one more step in the government being in control of every facet of our lives. Instead of spending over a million dollars of members money defending the STUPID drone operators and manufacturers, you should have been defending all of the loyal conventional model aircraft builders and flyers. Lets see $75 to belong to AMA $65 to belong to AMA sanctioned club, and now $5 to help the government track me down.

  22. And how does me paying a $5 fee for flying airplanes at my local club, stop the idiots from flying their drones dangerously ????????

  23. This rule is only going to effect the rule followers. Illegal UAS flights will still be difficult to prosecute so in the end it will just be an added expense for those doing the right thing. I don’t see the FAA coming to an AMA sanctioned site 20 miles off the beaten path to inspect my registration number than can only be seen when on the ground.

  24. Its just like any other registration that government agencies intervene in. Penalize everyone for mistakes of others, sounds like high school to me. Hopefully the AMA can get this sorted out using only the AMA member numbers, but you have to remember who they are dealing with.

  25. So I have to register and apply a ID number to all my planes/helicopters under 55lbs but I am okay to fly my planes over 55lbs without the ID number?

  27. Truthfully and unfortunately, reading the above comments I am confused. Basically this extends now to any craft over a cetain weight and also to control-line aircraft. If control-line aircraft are included does this mean that kids flying kites in the park are be subject to this as well if they weight more than the minimum and need to be registered?

  28. I think AMA members should be exempt. I think all non-FPV models should be exempt as they have a 100+ year history of not causing issues. FPV and some camera carrying is what is most apt to cause an issue.
    I don’t think AMA should lift a finger to help advertise this ruling unless paid an advertising fee. As I would much rather see FAA obtain the registrations of all 13 year and younger operator situations, and non-AMA people first to prove they are capable of even accomplishing the mission, before they ask any AMA experienced modelers to register. If they can’t achieve that goal, then the list will simply be a replication of the AMA list.
    I also believe the FAA will now need to go ask for appropriations to cover models and we should all contact our congressman to restrict spending more money to expand FAA.
    I also believe that the fines and punishments for model aircraft that do not interfere with real aircraft are extreme and violate the 8th Amendment.
    sorry to say, but the AMA may need to benchmark the NRA for how to deal with the government. It just looks like AMA + FAA = FAA as far as rule making goes.

  29. “Any pilot flying models weighing between .55 pounds (or 250 grams) and 55 lbs is required to register.” Since I weigh over 55 lbs am I required to register?

  30. It really is a shame the AMA didn’t take the initiative a long time ago and distinguish itself from drones. They tried to embrace them instead of requiring another governing organization to monitor them. Now we are all paying the price for the AMA’s poor judgement.

  32. I’m pretty sure we were all waiting for this. I personally don’t have much of a problem with it, but I’m willing to bet the first incident that happens after the initial registrations are processed will not be perpetrated by a registered drone pilot. Really, what do you expect, there will probably be 50,000,000 or so of these drones flying willie nillie around the neighborhoods on Christmas day this year!! Merry Christmas!!!

  33. Why isn’t the AMA challenging this in court? I predict a lot of civil disobedience on this matter.

  34. maybe after doing this for over 60 years it is time to get out of the hobby,i do enough paperwork just keeping my health insurance.once that they pass a rule they will keep adding to it.first it will be $5.00 then it will be $50.00 dollars.then a written test and on and on. gordon a nagy

  35. This regulation is in direct conflict with the exemption that was carved out in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization Act. The FAA has chosen to deliberately ignore the statutory exemption and exceed its regulatory jurisdiction. The fact that registration NOW is only $5.00 is meaningless; this is the start of a process that is wrong and will continue to expand in the future against the modelers the statutory exemption was designed to protect. AMA needs to seriously consider a challenge to the regulation as it pertains to model aircraft and the 336 exemption, otherwise, this agency will continue to ignore the statutory mandates and limits which Congress put in place.

  36. charging me any amount of money after i pay what i do in taxes to live in a free country so i can enjoy what little time i get off from my job is too much.
    i don’t have a problem with a number to show i own the craft that i am flying in case something happens that it needs to be there but to make me pay to do it on top of what the government already takes from me is where i have a problem.

  37. There’s always going to be someone who wants to perfect the problem with the world with more rules and regulations. Whether it’s gun laws or drones or any rc flight. Just ridiculous to think that a registration requirements would prevent any kind of terrorism or accident. Bad people don’t care if you make everything as difficult as possible they will still find a way, and stupid people just don’t have a clue neither of which will focus on the rules or regulations that are at hand.

  38. I’ve heard there are two thing you never want to see in person…. the making of sausage and the making of public policy.
    Where is the science to defend the need for this? What is this trying to accomplish? How does this even remotely comply with Congress’s Special Rule for Model Aircraft?

  39. Below is a direct quote from an FAA document from March, 2015 discussing model aircraft. How did we get from that to where we are now?

    The statutory parameters of a model aircraft operation are outlined in Section 336 of Public Law 112-95 (the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012) (PDF). Individuals who fly within the scope of these parameters do not require permission to operate their UAS; any flight outside these parameters (including any non-hobby, non-recreational operation) requires FAA authorization. For example, using a UAS to take photos for your personal use is recreational; using the same device to take photographs or videos for compensation or sale to another individual would be considered a non-recreational operation

    1. Greedy bastards who only care about money and sell themselves out to get it any way they can with no morals, principles or ethics and people who don’t speak up and let their voices be heard! That’s how these kind of situations happen. It worked for Germany in WW2 so the government has been utilizing it themselves ever since…….sad, beyond sad…….

  40. From day one I said don’t even start to talk to the FAA. See how well the FAA has promoted general aviation. It is about dead. They basically shut down any ingenuity in the market. If it wasn’t for the experimental market zero advances would have been made. Now they’re starting to encroach on model airplanes. This is the start of the slippery slope. It will only be a short matter of time before they demand that our model toy airplanes carry transponders on them since we fly in “their” airspace. Right now the FAA has demanded by 2020 that large airplanes have a transponder in them that reports their actual location and who they are. The only mandated that the information is transmitted and there is no mandate that the end-user received any information. They had no problems requiring every general aviation aircraft to install a $3000-$5000 upgrade so they know where the planes are . How will you feel when they say that we need to install mini drone transponders” so they know where our little planes are.
    I will never comply with this mandate . The AMA should tell all of us not to comply. Welcome to the nanny state. This is just sad and I am discussed. Land of the free, my…..

  41. This is just the start. Since we now are in possession of federally licensed aircraft, next we will be required to purchase insurance and process a valid medical permit. States will get into the action with those states currently having state taxes on aircraft leveling a tax on your registration number. Manufactures will be required to meet PMA standards for producing parts for aircraft. The list goes on and on. Do you smell that? That’s the smell of the death of our hobby.

  42. What in the world…

    Why can’t we just fly? Simple as that. AMA membership is going up and now this gets added? Plus don’t forget club dues as well.
    Flying is becoming expensive just to have fun and enjoy being with your friends…
    Something needs to change.

  43. You sound like many of the German rabbis circa 1936, reassuring their congregations they had nothing to fear from their government. I will be returning my 2016 membership card for a refund. I’ve had enough.

  44. The opinion of ” it could be worse” is exactly how our rights, as citizens are being eroded. Although we have no right to fly,this registration should not be considered anything more than a tax on a hobby. As a Commercial Pilot certificate holder, I realize the inept,uneducated and irresponsible operating DRONES in close proximity to aircraft represents a real threat to safety. That said,this registration will do nothing to stop the uninformed.

    Further, this is an example of the lack of political influence that the AMA has exhibited. With the proliferation of RTF,easy to fly uas systems-ADVERTISED profusely in the AMA publication,available at a relatively low cost compared to the rest of the hobby. A lack of training,mentorship and learning curve,most if not all us have been through with planks or helis, resulted in a problem responsible members will suffer for. I have responded to AMA surveys and sent my concerns via email and telephone concerning the drone problem. Well, AMA- now there is a problem.

    In my opinion,you don’t have our back. The FAA has shown no respect. The hobby is in decline. Flying facilities are becoming fewer and far between. There are still clubs that although AMA sanctioned are fixed wing only. Without a successful outcome,after a lengthy period of public comments subsequent to the FAA PNRM, it is obvious that the AMA is no more prepared to prevent further draconian legislation. Announcing via email that,without a better term, that we must register and its cheap,is distasteful. I for one will seriously reconsider renewing my AMA membership.

    As a heli only pilot,the lack of coverage in AMA’s publication,the lack of Charter requirements allowing heli activity in ALL AMA FLYING CLUBS, as well as the promotion of Drone manufacters via advertising in print and internet sites run by the AMA is troubling.

    Although,some members fly a variety of models,many realize the drone has changed the hobby in a negative way. I am a very vocal and very unhappy member. We now are on a slippery slope, safety will not improve and we will be subject to further knee jerk legislation when further airspace incursions happen with irresponsible drone operators. We told you so.

  45. Who is responsible for alerting the folks who buy a quad at Walgreens for little Johnny that they need to register? I sell model airplanes and equipment as a business. If I sell a model to someone and he is found by the FAA without registration and gets fined my fear is that I could be sued by my customer for not telling them about the need to register. Should I require registration prior to selling the model?

    Mark Miller
    Isthmus Models

  46. I hope that the AMA will soon let us know how they plan to legally challenge the FAA. So far the reaction is lukewarm.

  47. Perhaps a change of words that should have taken hold years ago:

    AMA members fly fixed wing and multicopters as their hobby. Drones are mechanical devices that are owned and operated by commercial and government entities.

    “Drone” should never have appeared in any AMA publication. Separation of type is the key thought.

    1. I agree whole heartedly. The problem is even consumer RC producers are calling multi rotors as drones. So they shot themselves. But in the end, why does the nomenclature matter? A drone is as much a UAV is as much a UAS is as much a remotely operated machine. Computer controlled or not, the machine is not intelligent. Even people with multi rotors and fixed wings that can fly missions without direct control are being controlled by human designed instructions. They don’t magically take off and go places because you wished it so… I guess that’s why I don’t understand why so many people are so upset at the guys flying with ardupilot or Naza. We are all flying and as long as we fly safely, we can enjoy it the way we want. It’s not MY fault that this happened. It’s not the fault of individuals bouncing phantoms off the side of skyscrapers or falling into the white house lawn. It’s the fact that the popularity has grown tremendously but the education and experience, and difficulty of those getting into the hobby has dropped tremendously. Every time I see somebody complain about what I fly, I think about how anybody these days could honestly have this happen. You think a little manually operated delta wing can’t be flown into oncoming traffic? Maybe 20 years ago it was unheard of. Today, it’s a reality. It doesn’t have to have a camera, GPS, sensors out the ears, to crash and cause history. More people getting into the hobby means more accidents. It sucks but it’s happening. I used to metal detect, I loved it. Then it got popular because metal detectors got easier to use. Now it’s banned almost everywhere. You don’t like it? Get out of the hobby. Clear up the skies for people who care and want to fly.

  48. Another ridiculous power grab by the FAA. Do they really have legal jurisdiction over all model airplanes that are “controlled from the ground”? Doubtful.

    (Register model airplanes, but not guns. Aren’t our bureaucrats incredible?)

  49. I am profoundly disappointed in AMA’s failure and betrayal. AMA lacked the vision and the commitment to separate traditional aero-modeling from the Plague of Drones. Every common man in our hobby saw it coming.

    Instead, AMA followed the money trail to drones and now we’re all paying for it.

    I don’t see why we should belong to (or pay for) a national organization that is so blind and morally corrupt

    If anyone think $1.67/yr is the end of this, you’re a fool

  50. If I am flying a friends plane do we need to have both of our registration numbers in the plane? From what I am reading if you don’t own an aircraft and just fly other people’s planes you would not need to register? What about “Club owned Trainer Planes”. What registration number goes in those planes? This is going to be a fuselage full of worms!!

  51. The FAA has ignored Congress and the bill it passed exempting model aviation from any rulemaking, and its ignored the AMA. Time to write to your congressman and ask that they step in a put a stop to this overreach and illegal action by the FAA. I would also urge all members to NOT register with the FAA – but that is based on your own individual tolerance for civil disobedience. I would also urge you to get your local club to take a stand and work with your congressional reps. This action is just another in a seemingly never-ending series of government overreach.

    1. I would not advise anyone to fly their model without being registered. From the FAA FAQ:

      Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?

      A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.

    2. I agree with you. As a responsible flyer (and AMA member) for the last 17 years I will not be part of this un-provoked prosecution by the FAA. Registration leads to confiscation, don’t believe me, take a look at the history books. It’s fine now, but a few more incidents, big new stories, suddenly you are operating a “weapon of war” when you go to the local field. It saddens me to think of letting this hobby go, but within the last year the thought has crossed my mind more than once.

      I would encourage any other responsible modelers to peacefully protest the new rule and not register. Enforcement seems nearly impossible so if the registration books show up empty in a year it will be a failed program and likely fade away. Make no mistake, the power is in our hands at this point in time, don’t hand it over to the FAA and federal government, we will never get it back.

      2. Indeed! Anyone who is rational and informed realizes that under the covers, this debacle isn’t even about model aircraft registration or the prevention of the “dangerous actions” of “rogue aero modelers”!

        No model of governance can stop antisocial behavior with regulations or laws! Check world history and current news for verification.

        This is simply another permutation of the “tightening of the reigns” by the 1% minority of the population who control EVERYTHING – including the corrupt puppet government and continue to defile and ultimately eliminate the constitutional rights and freedoms of common citizens.

        Nothing is going to change for anyone who operates outside of the law. They’ll continue to do anything they want and the compliant folks will continue to be herded into the sheep corral for processing.

        Perhaps the next phase is a mandatory frontal lobotomy as a punishment – but for what and for who???

        Too Orwellian, too Draconian you say? Then genuflect and step into the corral and wait…

        If you are truly someone who can no longer accept being bullied and literally enslaved by the actions of various branches of a malfunctioning puppet government, then don’t expect any association who is complying with their actions to act on your behalf!!! Mom and dad can’t fix this for us!

        If we ever hope to start turning this trend around, then it’s time to step away from the mind-and body numbing distractions of the TV, put down the bag of corn chips and stand-up and organize concerned citizens into a unified voice to articulate concerns, challenge the assault on our constitutional rights and peacefully, but diligently defend our diminishing and endangered freedom.

        Change will not come from within any puppet organization, it must come from the outside and it requires numbers, appropriate action and commitment…

  52. The amount of the “registration fee” is not an issue.
    Intrusion into my hobby is.
    AMA a major disappointment.
    Catering to the manufacturers and government bullcrap over the members.

    At least now the members know who is on which side of the issue now.

    Pete Seeger sang “Which Side Are You On, Boys….”

    I concur with the query but already known the answer.

    I for one will not comply with bad “law” nor bogus policy.

    I will continue to comply with the AMA Safety Code by CHOICE…

    Not for the color of bogus authority.

    AMA needs to fall back regroup and not abandon the members to abuse by color of authority, particularly when the “authority” is corrupted.

  53. But, just to write themselves a blank check:

    ”Model aircraft owners will be required to renew their registration every 3 years and pay a $5 fee. There would be no charge for de-registration. Fees will be adjusted based on actual costs.” (Emphasis on that last sentence.)

    Oh, and if you move, you had better notify Oklahoma City of your change of address within the required time period…they revised that Part, too. A re-registration fee will probably apply, as it does for all “aircraft”.

  54. Streamline the “registration process” in cooperation with the FAA!!!???!!!

    “WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON BOYS?….”

    Don’t forget to kiss the bureauRATS’ behind while in closed session.
    I do watch CSPAN. Harder to lie to me after watching a surrender by the AMA on TV.

        1. To be clear, we believe the registration process is an unnecessary burden. We have already reduced many of the burdens originally planned and are working to reduce more.

          While we are still working on the issue there are many other rights we have protected in the past couple years alone. Without your membership helping the AMA turbine jets would be grounded, under no circumstance could pilots fly over 400′ devastating the sailplane community, giant scale aircraft would not be permitted to fly, many flying fields near airports would be forced to close, communities such as Albany NY would have been successful in their attempts to ground all model aircraft.

          1. “The registration process is a necessary burden.”

            You just crossed your own “t” didn’t you? That’s a Drudge-worthy headline. “AMA SAYS ‘REGISTRATION’ NECESSARY BURDEN”

            Could you imagine that coming from the NRA?

          3. An official statement from the AMA requesting members to write to their Congressional Representatives regarding this rule would provide some much needed focus for this discussion, not to mention that it might produce positive results.

  56. does this men I can take my planes to my airport and fly since I have to abide by their rules?

  57. “We are seriously discussing with the FAA a system where your AMA number could be used as your federal registration number as well. At this point, this is only a proposal and details are not yet finalized.”

    so instead of paying $5 every 3 years we would pay the AMA fee yearly to have a number and still be poorly represented. It would have made more sense to req an AMA membership to buy new rc airframes and then have overviews of the rules in online training before finalizing the membership. Instead of objections why dont you try challenging the validity of this rule based upon what congress passed in 2012.

  58. There are two types of model aircraft pilots, One the model aircraft hobbiest that already has AMA and follows the safety sense of flying. Two are the drone pilots that call themselves knowing how to fly RC models but they only have multi rotors that fly themselves. These drone pilots don’t know and don’t care about AMA or FAA registration. They will never register there drones and certainly will not have AMA insurance. The people that the registration will effect are those that already follow the guidelines and rules and in a sense are already registered!. ( Hate to bring this up here but this is just like the gun control freaks wanting stronger background checks and waiting periods for the law abiding civilian to get a firearm thinking it will stop the criminals from buying them when the criminals don’t BUY guns they get there hands on them illegally anyway)

    2. The legal gun owners need more training, like stop leaving the weapons in their unlock automobile where they get handle lifted and stolen. You are right about the illegal obtaining of the weapons, but the gun owners are a large part of the problem, lock yer car/truck if you must leave it in there. I see a minimum of 3 news stories in my local area a month of this.

    3. This is exactly what I said to myself about drone pilots not caring to register. Multi-rotors are one of the hottest Christmas gifts this year.

    5. That’s completely bogus. I fly a quad rotor and I registered with the AMA and follow the rules. You mean the people who fly any RC aircraft that fail to review the rules set in place. That’s a personal attack on me. Just because my “drone” can fly on its own to take photos doesn’t mean I do it. I know I’m not allowed to.

  59. So now the government has its hands in one more aspect of my life. Not to mention the one that is a getaway from all the crap, like this, that life can throw at you. Pat yourself on the back FAA. You’ve Given yourselves some serious job security here. And registering your model aircraft might not seem like a big deal at the moment but give it time. Its the government, they’ll screw it up. They’ve got a foot in the door now. No telling what the coming years might bring to this innocent past time.

  60. Oh yeah, are we going to be mandated to have mini flight recorders on our model aircraft?

  61. This reminds me of the CB radio problem that happened in the 70’s. Everyone went out and bought a CB and the FCC tried to get everyone to buy a license prior to going on the air. Well that didn’t work and eventually it was free. Makes you wonder why the Government is doing this now when they can’t fix the gun problem. Just boggles the mind. There are way bigger problems that need solving, you would think the our Government would spend some time fixing real problems. I hope the AMA get’s an injunction and stops this crazy idea!

    1. sounds just like a bunch of educated idiots. most of the people making the rules don’t have any idea what they are doing. probably have a degree in underwater basket weaving. and I don’t understand a gun problem…. never seen a gun stand up and shoot someone. we enforced the war on drugs,a flash in the pan.

    2. The FAA has been trying to put their fingers on the model aviation industry for the last seven years, this drone thing just gave them the opportunity to
      sweep us up with the drone community.

    3. Don’t hold your breath waiting for the AMA to get an injunction or do more than “voice their disappointment”. I just payed the new dues schedule. If the AMA does not do more than vocally feel disappointed, next renewal they are going to feel disappointed even more. I would like to see a link to the video of the hearings where they sold out. It will not be very much longer and the AMA WILL NOT be the only Nationwide Community Based Organization. There won’t be any insurance (at least at first) BUT the representation can’t help but do more than “vocally feel disappointed” If you want my renewal dollars your going to have to do more than just feel disappointed. Not a threat, just fact.

  62. This reminds me of gun control; it only affects the people that are responsible and is impossible to enforce. Perhaps the FAA has the manpower to visit each of the AMA club airfields around the country on a regular basis (yeah, right), but what about the thousands (if not millions) of back yards and parks where these aircraft are flown by people that don’t know the rules and don’t really care?

    They also say that “Registration gives us the opportunity to educate these new airspace users” but how? Send out flyers? That’ll really help. Why not just put something in the box that the aircraft comes in?

    I’m sorry, but I just don’t see the point.

    1. “Perhaps the FAA has the manpower to visit each AMA club airfield . . . ” That’s what we all were asking in the full scale arena when the FAA came up with Ramp Checks. In reality there were not very many ramp checks in my area (Michigan) but they did happen with varying degrees of severity. The FAA has a record of making up crap just to make it seem like they were doing their job. Now it seems they are working to prevent terrorist attacks. Just saying. Thanks too the AMA for all they do. Without AMA who knows what we might have now.

  63. I would hope this goes without saying, but from the last paragraph there, I’m not too sure:
    The AMA must NEVER (NEVER) ‘automatically’ register anybody to the FAA registry. If they want to come up with a streamlined process for those who want to use it, that’s fine, but I DO NOT want to be added to the registry. I will be quite content to fly sub 8.82 oz. aircraft, as long as that’s an option, and if/when that loophole is closed, then I’ll just find another hobby, but I want nothing to do with what amounts to a short list of suspects, with no protection against copied/stolen registration numbers, and the potential for significant fines/jail time.

  64. i just want to thank the AMA for keeping us up to date and continuing to put forth a good honest effort. i know it’s a difficult situation and it sounds like the FAA is really not listening to the AMA in regards to task force recommendations. I’m sure this would have been much easier to swallow if we were all allowed to just use our current AMA number. I think we all know that something had to happen given the current situation we are in. I agree it could have been much worse but it also could have been much simpler to use our current AMA registration system. i enjoy flying large scale aerobatic planes all the way down to small foamies with my kids and yes we even fly the dreaded “gasp” …. “drones”. I know some would argue we should split all the facets of rc flight into a million different organizations but i think the AMA is doing the best they can to try and bring a common sense approach to protecting the hobby overall including all the different subgroups. Personally I feel the AMA is doing its best in a volatile climate full of fear and knee jerk reactions by the media and the FAA. I know there are issues to work out i just wish the FAA would listen more to the folks that have been involved with this hobby for decades!

    1. If the ama has any stones they would not leave themselves in middle. Pass on the information, leave the option up to the individual as to if they decide to comply or not. This will only work if your local club supports the ama’s head turning option.

    2. This about control, and the FAA is not going to listen to anything the AMA has to say.

    3. Very well worded and logical response. Fear is flying this aircraft registration nightmare.

  65. On the surface it doesn’t seem like a bad idea, However if you think about it it makes as much sense as having legislation that all gun owners register all their guns. Honest people will register while the will not.

    Whats going to happen Xmas day when those 1 million or so drones hit the hands of those unsuspecting kids and wanna be kids who take their drones into the parks or the streets and try to fly them

    The registration will serve to keep serious flyers on the hook but those others will continue to be a nuisance in an area that will be impossible to police.

    In my mind its irrational to introduce a bill with no idea on how to enforce it… Just my two cents worth

  66. Dont really see any need for my AMA membership anymore since it seems AMA is deciding to go along and help the FAA instead of fighting the ruling. The AMA seems to be in business for the money instead of fighting for principle. Just saying.

    The Hobby was fun while it lasted.

    1. I somewhat agree, I mean now a federal registration is in place to legally be able to fly a uas. It seams to me that the FAA trumps ( no pun) the ama , I may just register as a pilot with the FAA, no longer renew my AMA, and buy another multi rotor with my 55 bucks….

  67. This is another example of our government making rules without using any common sense. AMA already has the information (on all AMA members) for SUAS registration on file. Other than the FAA making $5.00 from each registered flyer, the current registration requirement does not make any sense at all. I wonder when it is all said and done, what this new regulation for licensing is going to cost the american people (new computer system, more employees to man the system, training the employees, policing the rule).

  68. Does retailers have to verify that a person buying UAS is registered before they sale the UAS?

  69. So why all the heartache? The AMA (among others) has been trying to bring sanity to this whole insane process and sometimes you just can’t fix stupid. We’re not talking about guns, rights or “big brother”. The government just wants to make sure that all the drug runners will have numbers posted on their aircraft so they can find them and put them all in jail.

    Personally, I’m gonna’ register as soon as I can and be done with this mess.

    1. Problem is the gun runner won’t register or worst yet use your registration number then guess who big brother is going after, that’s right you the law biding, rule following hobbyist. Who is going to protect your interest then when all the legal ramifications come, obviously not A.M.A. This is a problem!

    3. Bob, beyond the many issues of rights and constitutionality, it’s clear that drug dealers and terrorists are not going to register anything. And that’s the crux of this silliness. It won’t stop anyone from doing anything. It just harasses tax paying citizens like you and me.

  71. Apologize for comment. Realize this is serious business. Thanks for efforts, AMA.

  72. We are discussing this mater of control line right now on http://www.stunthanger.com and the 4500 members there are 95% in the thinking this is overreach for something that is not in the US airspace. My feeling this is nothing but a money grab. $5 this time $25 next time and so on.

    How will they identify a near miss from a drone when is speeding past a aircraft at 300 MPH and the number is less than 1/2 inch tall? This is going to be a super problem that we should have been detached from, from the beginning.

    The control line community is not pleased in general with another fee for toy airplanes.

    1. From the FAA FAQ:

      Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

      A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number, and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be accessed without the use of tools.

      As you can see here, the number is not meant to be visible in the air.

  73. This makes me seriously consider giving up the hobby that I have enjoyed for many years now. 5$ every three years doesn’t sound like that big of a deal, but what about future increases, or possible per aircraft fees in the future? I never imagined seeing the day when anyone owning a 1/2 pound toy airplane would have to register with the federal government!! We are living in some bizarre times…

    1. What will be the penilty for not complying with this rule? Does the government have the resources for inforcement?

  74. Since the registration is for the pilot, not the airplane, but the number is on the airplane, what happens when we let another (registered) AMA pilot fly our plane, perhaps to share the joy, or to loan at a contest when the other pilot has crashed. Does the new, temporary operator have to mark the plane?

    1. From the FAA FAQ:

      Q. If I let someone borrow my drone do I have to give them the Certificate of Registration?

      A. Yes, anyone who operates your drone must have the Certificate of Aircraft Registration in their possession. You can give them a paper copy, email it to them, or they can show it electronically from the registration website.

    2. According to the FAQ’s, if he doesn’t have them you have to let him hold your certificate (or a paper copy of, or an electronic copy on a medium that can be shown on demand) and your assigned number must be on the aircraft and readable w/out needing tools to view it.

  75. Agree with Dell … this could have been worse. Let’s all calm down, take a breath and let our representative organization (AMA) work through the red tape. Clearly they realize the stupidity of this whole thing and have been working in government circles for several years. Trust me none of us could have done better fighting this 800lb gorilla. Instead of bashing the AMA which has no direct control over these short sighted government agencies let’s turn our scorn to the real problem … the idiots who are flying in places they shouldn’t and doing other dumb things. I have seen some pretty stupid things on YouTube and I’m sure you have as well. They seem “cool” but we all know they are stupid/dangerous.

      1. Thanks Larry. I suspect a lot of steam is being let off in this blog. That’s cool as long as it stays civil (it is a right protected by the constitution after all).

        Let’s hear the AMA’s P-L-A-N of ACTION. HELLO AMA!??!!??

  76. I do want to see the AMA’s intended actins laid out on this blog or, better yet, in a letter to members. Transparency is important. Must let us know what the go forward plan is.

  77. So as long as it could have been worse it’s ok? We’ll see how long the $5 tax lasts. When they see how much cash flow they just created, I don’t expect it to be long before they crank up the volume.

    AMA, what happened to sec 336? I thought we were supposed to vote for laws in this country.

  78. This is the first step in making you get licensed to fly RC. Then a licensing test, then who knows what.

    Just an example of why we need to think about the consequences of our votes.

    “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.”” — Ronald Reagan

    1. Honestly, I know nobody here wants this, but a license system could help a lot with self regulation. Look at the radio guys. HAMas turn in violators to the FCC. A license is a right to operate. We aren’t talking requiring anything more. Just something governed by local clubs to issue tests and grant a license. If you don’t have a license and are caught flying (not toy stuff, real hobby stuff), the person who catches you just says “Hey listen I know you are having fun but this is illegal so come join our club and meet new friends and we can all fly and learn. Plus we protect our members rights.” Let the AMA delegate the chapters. Prove you can fly, prove you know the law, give you a place to fly and friends. Get a license.

  79. I suggest that all AMA members proudly display their AMA number on the outside of their
    aircraft and place their FAA registration number inside their aircraft in an area accessible without the use of tools! This will make us in compliance with present FAA
    rules and emphasize our desire to be identified by our AMA number!

    1. I agree and I plan to use Braille for my FAA Label, but AMA # will be in that same format as always on a dymo label or vinyl. I knew this would be educational, I get to learn a new language!

    2. That’s the kind of rebellious thing a 4 year old would do. If your biggest problem was not getting to use your AMA number you would have it made. Which number your identified with is trivial at best. You should “emphasize” your desire to Not be identified instead of which mickey mouse number your identified with. The cost is the same and if the FAA has your AMA number then it’s still in the same scary database.

      1. Correct Sir. And since the Chinese already may have way too much information I did not expect them to have on me because of the breach of a GOV Database, I really really am not keen on adding any more info to another. At least my CC# was not on OPM, or should not have been.

  80. Now this is a diaper full if I have ever heard it!!!! I thought I was paying AMA dues for them to be my voice! I cannot express how unhappy I am about this; took advantage of the “2 Year deal” on the AMA membership site, but I probably won’t renew after that. I am seriously considering getting out of the hobby altogether! AMA, you have failed us and this will likely destroy a once great hobby!!!!!

    1. I agree with you here. When the FAA refused to allow comments by the AMA, then AMA should’ve told them they have no choice in the matter.
      And what is AMA doing about it? Filing an injunction? Talking to Congress?
      I haven’t heard anything about them doing anything to STOP the FAA from screwing us over except talking to the FAA to allow us to use our AMA number.
      Section 336 is very clear. So how are they able to do this legally?
      They can’t just follow their own code that all aircraft must be registered when 336 says we are exempt.
      There are already laws for the stupid people. It’s called reckless endangerment.
      Why must the government keep making laws that are already on the books?

    2. What can we do? Contact your representatives in Congress for starters. If they fine you or charge you with any violations, Sue the hell out of them! The FAA, DOT and NTSB don’t make laws, Congress does. And since its already on the LAW books, it doesn’t matter how any of these agencies “Interpret” the LAW. ITs like me saying, i Interpret the LAW as not having to pay car insurance. I can interpret the LAW any way I see fit but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s the LAW to have car insurance. If I fail to interpret the LAW as it is written, that’s on me and then I must be held accountable for not respecting the LAW that’s on the books. All they are doing is intimidating us. It’s only enforceable if you allow them to violate your rights under the law…….

      1. More specifically, contact Senator James Inhofe, R-OK.

        He wrote the bill that was duly passed as LAW by Congress, signed by the President.

        The FAA cannot make laws.

        Also, realize that the head of the FAA is merely a political appointee, whose only skills are that in generating campaign donations for corrupt politicians. And for that, they are pay back…quid-pro-quo.

        Yeah, I’m talking abour Huerta, the head of the FAA.

    3. If the ama has any stones they would not leave themselves in middle. Pass on the information, leave the option up to the individual as to if they decide to comply or not. This will only work if your local club supports the ama’s head turning option.

  81. I appreciate the efforts made by the AMA in regards to our hobby/industry so lets not get off track here by holding the AMA responsible for the actions of the FAA. While being in the commercial UAV industry (and a RC hobby flyer for over 30 years) I have followed this FAA modernization and reform act since February of 2012 concerning commercial use of drones in US airspace. What I am angry about is how the FAA has lied to congress about hundreds of near collisions with commercial aircraft as a scare tactic to get them now interpret hobby models as aircraft so as to coincide with existing FAA regulations.

    Instead of providing legislation to govern commercial UAV flights in US airspace as they were tasked to do (and have failed on every attempt) they simply decided to shift the burden on all hobby flyers so everything is is now considered an aircraft.

    Since it is obvious the FAA doesn’t have the intelligence to create new legislation governing UAV flights in US airspace (because they have no clue) it was easier to hold everyone accountable and cycle us all into existing definitions of aircraft they do control. THey see this as a job well done but in reality have accomplished nothing more than to distance themselves even farther from the reality of this equation.

    How do we as members of the AMA educate, complain, and expose these FAA false claims to the proper authorities and get proper governance. The FAA is supposed to be a regulatory agency, not a law enforcement group and I have no desire to be governed by an agency who will falsify data and testimony to legislators simply to get their way.

    If the FAA can falsify information to get model aircraft under their authority, what will they falsify in order to make their point with an average modeler?

    1. I have wondered what a Freedom of Information Act filing request for the PUBLIC INFORMATION the FAA is citing in every near miss incident they are reporting would reveal to us. Has the AMA or anyone not affiliated with the FAA seen these reports?

    2. Something you may not be aware of, While I do not trust the FAA any farther than I can throw (up on) them, you won’t find the FAA’s name on any incident report showing them as the person that initially reported the incident, whether or not it was a totally fabricated, partially correct or a totally correct report. They can/will claim that they just compiled the reports from various sources for review and submission. The FAA stinks bad in this whole mess and while they manipulated the press and the public for the desired results, they knew they would not be responsible for the integrity of any reports.

  82. Apparently, FAA is requiring payment of the $5 tax by credit card to verify the user. What if you don’t have one?

    1. From the FAA FAQ:

      Q. Can I register a UAS under the new system using a paper form?

      A. The new registration system is an online web-based system only, but you may use the older paper-based system if you prefer.

      Maybe the paper-based system doesn’t require a credit card…

    2. Yea – what about the 15 year old that can’t have a credit card – what are they suppose to do?

    3. Can the FAA legally require us to give them our credit card number? Can we pay by PayPal to protect ourselves from the inevitable hack into the FAA database?

  83. Is the AMA filing a lawsuit to stop this process this week? If not, why? What are we paying are dues for?
    After all my years of membership I will be greatly disappointed if the AMA does not take a firm stand and use every means in its power to stop or amend this rule.

    What say you, AMA counsel? Are your briefs prepared? When will the suit be files? Are you seeking an injunction?

    1. I agree wholeheartedly, Geof! The AMA should immediately file a “cease and desist” order in Federal court against the FAA. This action is a clear executive overreach, and in violation of Congresses special exclusion of model airplanes from the sUAS (drone) category.

    2. I disagree. They’re already involved in one lawsuit against the federal agency that controls the medium in which you intend to operate? And how is that working out so far? Now we should do more of the same and hope for a different result?

      I don’t see where buying lawyers more boats and summer homes is going to end well. EVEN IF the AMA wins in court, and I doubt they will, we’ve seen how government agencies (like EPA) can use regulations to make life miserable on anyone (including individuals) who cross them.

  84. Seems like just another example of a regulatory agency ignoring the will of the people and the rule passed by congress. The $5 is not the issue but the principle is.

    Just a note: I have observed that most of us no longer include our name and AMA number on our aircraft which is an AMA rule and the AMA sanctioned clubs don’t enforce it.

  85. Why is the $5 fee even required? FAA claims that no agency has the right to waive fees, yet FCC charges no fees for amateur radio licenses. They tried for a few years ($10 fee), but then dropped it.

  86. so, an ultralight aircraft that can carry a person doesn’t need to be registered, but my 1 lb foam park flyer does? Sorry – This is a clear case of governmental overstep. How about stiff penalties and fines for people doing stupid things with RC aircraft? Don’t we already have laws regarding interference with full scale aircraft, or ‘peeping’?
    Although $5 for 3 years doesn’t seem ‘too bad’, what about when it becomes $50. Or $150? This issue should have been settled with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft – that CONGRESS passed into law. I’m thinking we’ve allowed these alphabet agencies to have way too much power. Power well beyond their original mandate.

    Small government is the best government.

    1. This is what we get when a “community organizer” is allowed to occupy the highest office in the land.

    2. Unlike a sUAS, the pilot of an ultralight has a vested interest in operating safely. He crashes and he’s facing injury or death. An sUAS crashes, and people laugh and write a check for a new one.

  87. This is just the beginning. After they find out this is unenforceable next will be requiring serial numbers on batteries and receivers from the manufacturers…… registering buyers by retailers…. etc… so they can have a chance to trace those that ignore this registration rule….. Some number cruncher in the Gov. will see it as a ‘fund raiser’ and the fees will be increased….. need I go on. Regulation has killed so many good things it is not funny.

  88. Another example of government run amok. The EPA has been the proven fore runner for heavy handedness, no surprise to see the same methodology being employed by the FAA.

    The FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 provided a reasonable solution for recreational modelers.

  89. This is reminiscent of similar government bureaucrat know-nothings that have an agenda and decide that guns are the problem in all these killings so they attempt to take away guns from the good guys. Yeah, like the bad guys aren’t going to get their hands on a weapon.

    So all you good guys, register your plane and then hold your breath waiting for the bad guys to register theirs. What a bunch of malarkey.

    Did anyone give a moments thought that there is a technology solution at least as regards to the risk of collisions with full scale airplanes. Require the manufacturers of the receivers ( that are in every model airplane or heli ) to program a fail safe that won’t let the model operate within 2 miles of an airport or above 400 feet. Yes, it would constrain those modeling events that take place at airports, but that is a more fail safe fix than expecting self-registering by the bad guys.

    1. Joan
      I think the size of the chip to be able to handle the GPS locations of ALL airports, even grass strips that are sometimes used by RC clubs also, would place most small aircraft over the weight limit just for the receiver.

  90. Unless they require a registration to purchase a drone/helicopter or aircraft it’s not going to stop idiots from walking into a hobby store and buying a multi-rotor with a camera and reeking havoc on the general population. (does this sound eerily like gun laws? Or is it just me? The criminals still have them!) We, the rule following AMA members who fly at clubs and events are the ones bothered the most by this, and the least likely to cause ay issues! Besides, how do they plan on enforcing it? Ridiculous!

  91. Does the FAA really think this is a solution? More Gov’t intervention on law abiding citizens that are the only people that will comply with these new regulations. Criminals don’t buy guns at gun stores with the proper permits, Drug dealers aren’t following DEA rules, so it amazes me that the FAA’s solution is adding regulation. (Not really 🙂 ) At least it is a reasonable fee for those of us here that do follow the regulations set forth. Still how this will eliminate the 18yr old kid that laughs when he flys his chinese made ARF quad copter in front of an aircraft on a landing approach is beyond my comprehension.

  92. I have been flying responsibly for 30+years. This whole mess is outrageous. The folks who violate all rules of “common Sense” are the ones who created this mess, and it never ceases to amaze me how idiotic government is to think that this will solve any problems. Those who are up to no good surely will have no attention to abide by this ruling. All it will accomplish is it will allow government to get larger and initiate just another way to meddle in the every day lives of law abiding citizens while creating the beginning of another source of revenue to support themselves…Some body else said it better…”You can’t fix stupid!”

    1. I could not of said it any better, I think what we all need to do is sit down and write our congress. If enough of us write our voices will be heard. so sit down and start drafting a letter and when your satisfied with it send it to them (congress) they stuck up for us once so lets do it. and by the way thank AMA they have done their best for us but working with cronies in Washington DC is not easy. Thank you AMA you are doing your best for us.

  93. This is just another example of our freedoms being takin away under the Obama Administration.I own 2 balsa electric R/C planes and a beautiful Spectrum DX8 2.4 Radio but I dont fly anymore,dont know if I need to register or not.If this continues,I will forget about them.This new ruling is a tad bit out of hand.Just like Obamacare.

    Steven DeGiorgio,AMA#79586
    Private Pilot,A&P Machanic

    1. From the FAA FAQ:

      Q. When must I register?

      A. You must register prior to operating the UAS outdoors.

      Q. If I only fly it indoors, do I have to register it?

      A. No, the FAA does not regulate indoor UAS use.

      If you don’t fly it, or only fly indoors, then you don’t need to register.

  94. The AMA was nowhere to be found when our local fields were being closed, several years ago. Now, it appears the committee has failed in most, if not all negotiations with the FAA. I have seen only disappointment and lip service from you for all the years I have been a member. Reading your article, I see you have escalated things from “discussing” to “seriously discussing”. To add insult, just a few minutes ago, I received an email trying to sell me auto insurance.

    I believe it’s time to admit the AMA is not working, and the current leadership is no longer effective.

  95. Dear AMA,
    Why are you letting FAA dictate to AMA, do you really think that this idea so going to stop drones from being flown from back yards. Anybody can go into a store or order them online as for a Radio and a Drone and fly them from their back yards without joining AMA.
    So why the members in AMA should be PUNCHED by paying another 5 dollars. The members of AMA obey the rules both with AMA and our flying fields. Please read the rules that you have one the books before punching the members.
    Or is this that either AMA or FAA needs more money to waste, I’ve been a member of AMA for over 20 years. When I started club dues were 45 dollars now it’s 65 dollars, and there’s not a lot in return for paying my dues. To get any help for our flying field we have to go through a lot of hoops to many to get any help.
    This 5 dollars is not going to stop at just 5 dollars give it a few years and the price will go up and the problem will still be there. Solve the problem by figuring a way to punch these backyard flyers.
    One way to do that is requiring any person buying a radio and drone to have AMA membership or have those register them with FAA so they know who’s flying these things.

    1. I think AMA needs to get on the side of it’s members and address several issues stated above and at the very least force the AMA member # issue. Once that is done it would be great to have this registration streamlined to just include the problem children – QUADS – even the ones with 6 or 8 or more props over 250g and anything (sorry your BIX is in here too) with FPV that is over the same 250g. Then give those folks that fall into these catagories two option, (1) Register with AMA and list AMA number on device, have the liability insurance AMA membership includes, have an awesome informative and educational magazine every month, get discounts at some vendor sites, belong to a community that may teach you more about the hobby …… OR (2) Register with the Government. And of course put the mark of the beast on your device.

      I know which on most of us would choose to do. Then AMA will need to create some new guidelines for the safe flight of FPV devices and DRONES!

      Sorry to the DRONE Device people, I don’t consider them aircraft at all. Take away the propulsion power and it doesn’t fly – it drops like a rock. An Aircraft still retains its ability to be controlled with the loss of propulsion whether it is fix or rotary winged.

      1. Who was it who made a class of people regester, and then ,sent them to death camps??? Will we be sent to a camp???

  96. I am a licensed pilot. The FAA has already issued a number to me, it’s on my pilot certificate. So, now they insist on issuing me a separate number that I rent from them on three year intervals?

    If it’s not about collecting money outside of what other government agencies dole out to them on a budgetary basis, what possible “safety” benefit can this have on society as a whole?

    Is this really a rental fee for access to “their” air space?

    1. That’s exactly what it sounds like to me, it’s always about the money that’s going to fix a problem that really isn’t a problem.

  97. As an AMA sanctioned club, will we be required to verify everyone who comes to fly at our field has a valid FAA certificate?

  98. I’ve held a commercial rotorcraft rating since 1996, the FAA has all of my personal data on file including medical information. If they consider all of us who fly models recreationally “aviators”, why did they not offer a provision to exempt certificated pilots from the burden of registration by simply allowing us to place our airman certificate number inside of our models?

    2. Because that would make sense and the government is not in the business of making sense, just money… However, they would still be in violation of SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT which is where I really have a problem with this. FAA has ignored existing law and made their own. Last time I checked, that’s not how it is supposed to work…

  99. I see …. there will now be a national registry of model airplanes and their owners. Obviously – by government standards – the danger here is so much greater than with the ownership of guns. Maybe we should be trading our airplanes in for guns. Or better yet, the AMA should be working toward realigning our organization to make it an affiliate of the NRA.

    1. That’s exactly what I’m fixing to do myself. I can’t fly anymore so I need to find myself another hobby. First stop, gun shop. Second stop, NRA. See there Big Brother! Your now forcing people to concentrate on overthrowing your corrupt ways because every other past time has been regulated. 350 million people your making beyond upset. Think you can control everyone? You can’t even control yourself! Good luck trying to get things back to your standards. I believe we all just about had enough of this crap!

    3. If the AMA affiliated with the NRA, there wouldn’t be any registration of your hobby. Time to tell the government NO. This is a perfect platform for concerted civil disobedience. NO REGISTRATION.

    4. Flying model aircraft isn’t a civil right, so the legal hurdles are much lower for the government to control you.

  100. Just wait until the Coast Gaurd gets in on this. Boats will be next.

    It is darn ridiculous when fixed wing gets lumped in with rotors, especially when the rotors in question had gyros. Why not just say gyros need to be registered, as the folks flying the problem aircraft wouldn’t be able to do so if not for the gyro? Would kind of go along the same lines as the FPV rule. If you want to fly an aircraft with a gyro then register, no gyro no register.

    1. This is a very intelligent observation. A multi-rotor is inherently unstable. The only thing that keeps it in the air is the flight controller. If the FAA ruling was all models flying with an on-board controller needs to be registered the silence in this forum would be deafening.

    2. My r/c helicopters have tail gyros, yet will crash within 10 seconds or so if not accurately controlled by me. Many fixed wing models now have stabilizing gyros in them also… ergo, your assumption about having a gyro in the model is probably inaccurate as it’s really very common these days in both model planes and heli’s as well as essential to these “quad-copter” drone models.

      I’d suggest that maybe just maybe if the model can be flown (or fly itself) completely out of visual range of the r/c pilot without crashing then it is a drone and might aught to be registered… maybe! But shouldn’t the FAA also want every person who owns a laser pen pointer to register as well? They’re every bit as dangerous to full sized aircraft at night and incidents with lasers lighting up cockpits are even more common than drone near misses!!!!

  101. Very sad to say the least.

    I’ve been flying RC models since the late 1950’s and have been an AMA member longer that I can remember. Through the years there have been many occasions where some form of RC model flying has been in jeopardy. But the AMA leadership at the time has invariably prevailed by coming up with common sense alternatives to excess government restrictions.

    I am deeply saddened to see our current AMA leadership defer to some of the FAA requirements.

    Going forward our organization must insist and ensure that all AMA members in good standing are exempt from the excesses of government agendas and politics.

    Sincerely,
    Ed

  102. You know, its a damn shame that we have a Congress whose sole purpose is to be the VOICE of the people, who are suppose to do the will of the people and to protect their RIGHTS. Congress passed a LAW to EXEMPT model aircraft from ANY RULES AND REGULATIONS that the FAA, DOT or NTSB may want to impose and “Interpret” Its very clear to me that it took an ACT OF CONGRESS to pass a law to PROTECT the RIGHTS of law abiding citizens who fly model aircraft. Congress makes the LAW. Not the FAA, DOT or the NTSB or ANY ONE ELSE. So, according to the FAA, even if I hand launch a damned paper airplane, according to their interpretation, I have to register it. Horse Hockey I say! I’m going to fly ALL of my aircraft regardless of ANY “Interpretation” by these lawless crooks that have no regard for the LAW!!! We all need to ban together and start hiring lawyers or the ACLU and Sue these thugs when they start handing out fines. Since when is the FAA, DOT or NTSB above the LAW and don’t have to be bound by what Congress passed in 2012. If they don’t have to play by the rules or law, why should we or I have to??? I’m not going to renew my AMA Membership as I feel it is now worthless. That’s unfortunate I know, but really AMA, why are you even negotiating with these people. You should be using the extra $22.00+ dollars that I am having to pay to go and get some damned good lawyers and Sue these thugs for violating the LAW and our RIGHTS. This is just beyond nonsense. We all know regardless of ANY registration that there are going to be those who are not going to fly responsibly. Which only translates into more rules and regulations and fees and fines on those who are law abiding and fly responsibly. You give these thugs an inch and I will guarantee when all is said in done, no one will be flying. Let’s get our priorities straight!

    SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.

    (a) In General.–Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if-(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use; (2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization; (3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
    (4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)). (b) Statutory Construction.–Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system. (c) Model Aircraft Defined.–In this section, the term “model aircraft” means an unmanned aircraft that is-(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere; (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

    1. I’m with you brother! However, I’m keeping my membership but do encourage the AMA to stand up to that “Federal” agency because they are flat out “Wrong!” I’ll just keep on flying my stuff with my name and contact info on it only. If someone tries to fine me, I’ll then take that to court and I’ll be the squeekiest wheel Anyone has ever seen. I’ll not sign any document with a hush order such as was probably signed by the AMA officials when they said they couldn’t share the details with us. I hope anyone else that gets in a similar situation does the same.

    2. You’re absolutely correct. I don’t remember voting in the head of the FAA. Who exactly is he accountable to? Too many czars and not enough elected people running these organizations. Little by little, our rights get eroded and it costs us more and more for government programs. Time to tighten up the reins on these totalitarians.

  103. I’m disgusted with this whole show! And I mean show! How complacent was AMA in cowering to these unscrupulous individuals who are trodding on my rights and my brother hobbyist whose only offence was having to ask for forgiveness from their mates for over spending? Do you know (AMA) how many members you just lost. It is obvious that survival was the only concern here. What was the gain of bending over without a single concerted legal effort to block this? This will go down in history as one of the biggest governmental overreach in history and what did the AMA do?,,,,nothing. I’m done! 55 YO and never seen this coming other than to say “Boy thats stupid” when I seen YT vids of people up to high, and out to far. They said three years at a whop for registration, then reup then. Here’s a prediction,, three years and it will all be illegal. Now ask yourself why would they want to do that??????????????????

  104. Dear AMA;
    I have a serious question that is not out of anger. What the government has done makes me livid for all the reasons already mentioned. Rather than focus on those emotions I’d like to understand AMA’s plan B since plan A did not work in these negotiations. As members we know there are large legal costs to fight the governments overreach (in many of our opinions). I thought the new idea to pay for 2 years of dues may be to increase cash flow now for a coming legal fight.

    I think the AMA’s membership and money are so tiny compared to the FAA and now the DOT we have almost no chance of keeping the government out or “making” them respect the congressional LAW. However we do have a congressional law on our side. Yes, the interpretation can be played with just like the statistics of drone sighting reports. This will need to be ruled on in court. What’s concerning to me is the step by step encroachment the government has been doing. Also our approach so far has been to “negotiate” and “hope”. I believe “hope” is not a strategy and we should create our own destiny as much as possible. If we do too little to stop the encroachment, we will have continued encroachment until the gov’t tests our boundaries further. They have done this by unilaterally agreeing we could be involved yet they made the decision against our interests and against the law. It’s much, much more difficult and expensive to gain power back than it is to give it away in the first place.

    Long ago we heard we had to file a lawsuit because the process required it. I’m not sure anymore what it was for, if it’s still going on and is the goal still relevant. I’ve heard we are unsure what the law really does for us, we are unsure what regulations will really apply to us, we are unsure of the definition of a drone versus SUAS, we are now unsure how to register, we are unsure of the repercussions of not registering and so on. What we are sure of is the government continues to gain yardage while we do not.

    So, my question is simply “what is our plan and timeline to complete it and what is the goal?” I honestly want to know what options we have to simply not comply just like the gov’t simply made a rule that we strongly believe is against the law. When are we going to make our legal stand. . . and what legal stand will it be?

    1. Dan, agree … we need the PLAN from the AMA. What is the PLAN, boys?? I, too, paid ahead thinking that the war chest was being filled for an upcoming fight. What is the PLAN??? A little TRANSPARANCY, please AMA!

      Sec. 336 is pretty clear.

  105. I think that all 4 bladed drones should be destroyed and the manufacturing of these drones look at what it has done to the rc flying community
    It’s ruining it for the pilots now and for future
    Pilots

    1. Tolerance, Jim …. would you have said the same when helicopters entered the scene or even earlier innovations??

    2. why should this be blamed on multirotors? i have flown all of the things that fly and i dont think the problem is what is flying but the faa is the problem here.
      nice to know that your answer kind of goes with thiers..that sounds like stop all gun owners cause a few used them wrong.
      i guess you think we should remove all cars in the world seeing as they have caused the problem of car insurance too.

  106. I am going with “non-violent” civil disobedience. Hey, we have a community organizer as POTUS, should be familiar territory. This FAA rule is illegal on its face. As a USMC Officer I was taught that you are not clear from responsibility if you obey an order you know to be unlawful. That clearly implies no duty to obey unlawful orders.
    I’m certain that within a short period of time the $5/3 yrs will be $10/yr and up as the czar in charge wants more men to chase “drones.” Only good thing might be them not wanting to ban something that has a revenue stream.
    Please write your congressional representatives, it’s their will too that’s being ignored. They have skin in the game whether they want it or not. Doing nada and blaming the AMA or buckling under saying it’s only $5 cheapens the rule of law.
    Whit

  107. I’m curuious.. it’s FREE for the first 30 days.. but in three years when I have to register again, it’s costing me money. So my question, what are they going to do with the couple million dollars a year (185,000 x 5 for AMA members alone)? What are those funds going toward?

  108. Wow! What an opportunity to go after the gov’ment. AMA kept us informed as the process worked it way out. I believe it did its best to protect our interests. We have not prevailed yet. I’ll register without fearing “they” will come after me in the night, trusting that the fight is not over and that AMA will continue to work to advance our modelers’ interests.

  109. I’m sorry to see the attacks on AMA and its leadership for this action by the FAA. From my (distant) perspective, then AMA leadership has spent a great deal of time working this issue, and has done quite a good job in keeping us posted about what was happening. I suspect that, in the end, the FAA and DOT top brass did their homework a bit better than they had before and probably either figured that Congress is too preoccupied with partisan issues to deal with something that only affects 185,000 people, or got a good sense that the chair people of the committee(s) that oversee the FAA weren’t going to get railroaded (their perspective) a second time by a special rule like 336. From the FAA’s perspective, they are responsible for keeping the National Air Space safe, and yet Congress told them not to touch 185,000 folks who are actively and frequently flying various UAS’s. No bureaucrat worth his or her salt wants to let something get outside his jurisdiction if he can help it.

    It seems to me that, if we want to fight this, we can write, email, or phone or various congress people, reminding them that they passed Rule 336 and that we aren’t the problem. We’ve been flying safely for many years all across this country, and because of our investment of time, skill, and money, we intend to continue doing so. In particular, we aren’t about to risk our complex and difficult to fly creations flying over people or in crowded air spaces. The problem is those folks who are buying the electronically more sophisticated UAS’s that seem to be safe to fly over people and in crowded areas, and which indeed are more fun if flown in those venues. Those are the folks that need to be managed, and we can help if we aren’t treated as part of the problem but are treated as part of the solution. Be like Eric Williams, AVP for New York, who mobilized a whole bunch of AMA members to impress on the Albany County legislators that they weren’t the problem.

    John Philbrick, Ph.D.

  110. AMA 3661, a member for 40+ years, Contest Director and Leader Member. The AMA is our friend here, don’t bash them. They will do what they can. Believe me, their jobs are on the line with the hobby on the line. Ask for an injunction, ask for Congressional hearings on why their will wasn’t followed, ask why the voters are electing politicians who forget the constitution when elected. What about the “consent of the governed?” This is the takeover of a hobby as surely as they took over healthcare. Get ready for more. The top leaders are instructing all the departments to find a way to regulate EVERYTHING. Pretty soon the regulators will outnumber the citizens. We are way past any tipping point in the regulation business.

    One final thought: It doesn’t sound like “free flight” falls under the new rules.

  111. I think you should sue the FAA for implementing an illegal system. At least going in…

  112. As a licensed pilot and an AMA member who currently flies drones exclusively I feel that the AMA has done an excellent job in fighting for our right to fly recreational without government regulation. The FAA is well known to heed the voice of the airline industry above all other voices

    A lawsuit based on the 2012 statute appears to be in order. I would contribute to a legal fund to accomplish this.

  113. The worst part of all of this is that this will have little to no effect on curbing irresponsible use. The only one’s who’ll bother to register are those of us who were operating by the rules in the first place. The problems will not be with the registered, it’ll be by the ones who thumb their nose at it and don’t bother with any of the rules.

    Another example of those who play by the rules getting shaft from good ole uncle Sam. I hope the inconvenience and revenue generated from thousands of responsible modelers is worth it to catch a dozen or so clowns each year who act like idiots. There’s no question in my mind that this initiative will only serve to shrink the hobby.

    If the AMA couldn’t prevent this step from impact us non-drone practitioners of the hobby, I have absolutely ZERO faith they’ll have any effectiveness in preventing anything else the government fancies on subjecting us modelers to the in future.

    I think I’m going to curtail my investment in the hobby going forward as this seems to be the beginning of the end.

  114. There is a lot of talk here and I can’t disagree with anything, both pro and con. What scares me is the thought in the back of my mind that says “Wait till the first sUAS causes a plane to crash and the recovered offending small aircraft doesn’t have an ID number on it”. What is the good of a measure that will not prevent an idiot from doing what they will do?

    1. What comes first is administrative controls, things like registration. If and when those fail, next comes operational restrictions. Since AMA seems unwilling to collect hard safety data on our operations to rebut FAA data they continue to collect, then I predict operational restricts will follow sooner or later. Since I’ve spent over 20+ years managing military aviation safety, what I predict will happen:

      Absolutely no flight above 400′ AGL anywhere (provides vertical separation from overwhelming volume of manned aircraft). Absolutely no flight within horizontal limits of Class B, C, D airspace, or within five NM of airport, whichever is greater (horizontal separation from high volume low altitude traffic). No flight within 5nm of hospital with helipad (horizontal separation from hi likelihood SVFR traffic). No flight within lateral limits of Military Training Routes during published hours of operation (lateral separation from high speed / low altitude military traffic). No flight in lateral limits of restricted airspace or Military Operating Areas with floors below 5000′ AGL (horizontal separation for aircraft entering / exiting special use airspace). There’s probably more, but these are what I would do if I were the FAA and tasked to minimize possibility of sUAS / manned aircraft conflict.

  115. It would greatly simplify this if the AMA would ask the FAA to differentiate traditional flying models from those that carry cameras or video equipment.

    Camera’s cause a lot of issues with the public and video equipment enables flight beyond line of site. Line of site flight with traditional aircraft is not and never has been an issue.

    1. Yes Chris, exactly. The problem is technology has offered a hovercraft of sorts that can easily be flown and maintained in a vertical fashion, with all the automated technology. Basically, you can fly a multi rotor in a small backyard. The traditional models I was used to in the past at clubs required a lot of space, a good club, and a lot of training. I’m still ticked that the AMA club tradition falls under the FAA ruling.

  116. I sincerely hope that the AMA does not voluntarily hand over my AMA membership information to the FAA. If I want to sign up that is my choice. I do NOT want the AMA to sign up for me. I can take care of it myself if that is what I DECIDE to do. The jury is still out on whether I will ever renew my AMA membership again. It all depends on what the AMA does with the FAA in the next couple of weeks. I would personally like to thank the AMA for disappointing me in regards to this whole process. Thanks a lot.

  117. I would like to ask AMA to cover the applied registration fees after all with the inflated dues from AMA “to fight this issue” seem to be getting us nothing in return. This is a tax!!! After all we could just remove the GPS from the hobby and everyone will need to fly line of site using there thumbs not a computer.

  118. I’m glad the AMA is keeping us informed of this process.

    What do we get for our AMA dues? Insurance. You cannot fly at an AMA sanctioned club field without it. The rest is fluff.

    Now, I understand what the FAA is trying to do, but they are not adequately informed to be doing it. The AMA isn’t technically a lobbying group, but a national organization made up of its members and elected officers. It is nowhere near as well funded or trained as a successful lobby group.

    I joined AMA in the early 80’s and participated in pattern and IMAC competition for many years and amassed a trophy case of memories. I finally decided to quit competition several years ago and just fly for fun. I had a smooth paved runway built on my own property where I live and just fly at home, so I don’t belong to any clubs anymore. May I presume that as long as I don’t fly a model in proximity to a low-flying full scale aircraft, then no harm should come if I refuse to be branded with yet another federal government issued number? It appears, the possibility of law enforcement or legal action does exist. Yet, I feel compelled to ignore this ruling and take that chance.

    The problem is multi-rotor “toy” drones and idiots using models for FPV. The problem is NOT us “real modelers”. Never has been. Yet, the AMA doesn’t appear to be strong enough to make the differentiation between toys and models, nor the does the AMA seem to have any real power to help shape legislation or protect us members from frivolous legislation.

    How the AMA proceeds now will have a direct influence on whether or not I continue to renew the AMA annual dues. MEMO TO AMA- You need me more than I need you. Please act on our behalf with great vigor; Forget about political correctness. YOU placed yourself in a position of representing aeromodelers to the federal government in this matter, and now your members are depending on you. If you fail at this, you will ultimately fail as an organization as we (as a group) will no longer need you.

  119. SO when is Bob Brown resigning.? he needs to. I see a big shake up next year with the executive board at the ama. his love of quads has clouded his judgment. they all know us plane and heli flyers were not wanting any thing to do with quads. they didn’t even consider what the majority of the member ship wanted they thought they knew better.
    our dues should be going down in price for this as we have to pay the government to fly.
    ama raised our dues to pay for fighting for quads and the majority did not want you to do that. so find a lawyer and file for a temp stay in the faa legislation for gods sake. it sure seems like the ama is a bad as congress not listening to the people who put them there.

  120. You anti AMA people are delusional.
    AMA was ONE member of an ADVISORY ONLY Task Force that had AMAZON, Best Buy and Walmart on it not to mention every aero related organization. Some of them wanted to regulate models just like full scale including construction. Until and unless AMA gets the money, political clout and a Constitutional right like the NRA, we can only argue and sue. So all you complainers stop complaining and send AMA LARGE CASH donations to sue the FAA.

    1. AMA is already suing them, going into second or third year I think w/o a resolution. How’s the “sue them” working out so far? I’m not a fan of putting good money after bad, or of trying more of the same and expecting a different result.

  121. What concerns me most is that our regulators are jumping into developing out another database which will contain the personal information of compliant citizens – while others go on the lamb – and all of this personal data will be exposed to hackers. So far the government has proven totally incapable of operating with any integrity when it comes to privacy and security.

    Has the AMA voiced any concerns? Have we any idea about how the logistics will be handled? Another government department!

  122. This will do more harm to the AMA then you ever expected. The membership will move into a steady decline and eventually there will be not enough to sustain your operations. Should have called in the big guns to assist you in this. Poorly done and poorly executed. $9,250,000 in dues using $50 as an average. Not very well directed in a dire time of need. 50 years of enjoying the hobby. I’m not going on any government lists for model airplanes. All will be sold and a new list free hobby found. Thanks for the great years “past”.

    1. IRS 990’s filed by AMA show, in constant 2013 dollars (last year was able to obtain), that membership dues have been declining by 1.4 to 6 percent every year over the period 2007 to 2013. That’s because of fewer members, members switching from higher cost memberships to lower cost (regular to either senior or park flier), or a combination of both. The recent spike in cost of membership will cover that declining revenue for a while, but it won’t address the underlying problem of either aging membership or declining membership.

      Why might membership be declining? From my viewpoint it’s insurance that is the last to pay after my homeowners, and club memberships that exceed my AMA membership, when if I just fly smaller electrics, I can fly in the park near my house w/o AMA or club fees – and put that $200 annually into batteries and planes!

  123. I don’t understand how the AMA and the FAA didn’t realize that there were 185,000 sUAS pilots already “registered”. If the FAA would accept the registration of AMA members we all would be better off. Then the remaining unregistered pilots could have two choices. 1.Join AMA and get all the benefits of membership including insurance or 2. Pay the Government their $5 for a useless number. That seems a more “Win-Win” situation to me. The $5 to the Govt is not a reason to do this. A money grab buy the govt (as has been proffered) in this BLOG is in the billions not dollars. Truthfully it will cost a LOT more to administer this registration than $1.67 per person/year.
    Oh and how the HELL is a control line model included. If you want to know who is flying it JUST LOOK AT THE OTHER END OF THE LINES!!!!!

  124. To put it succinctly, the FAA’s concerns and the general public’s alarm over sUAV is tied directly to only 2 things, the addition of GPS and FPV capabilities to our models which in turn has directly resulted in high-altitude fights as well as flights beyond LOS in general. By not recognizing this fact, FAA has missed the target and is now trying to regulate the entire flying model aircraft community. The AMA for it’s part appears to have missed this point as well and has failed to steer the conversation with the FAA in this regard.

  125. Please answer this question which has already been submitted….. What are the consequences for NOT REGISTERING… will Homeland Security come after me?

    1. Taken from the FAA FAQs
      https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
      Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?
      A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.

  126. I think everyone should lighten up on the AMA. Without the AMA, our hobby would be totally different. I doubt any of the radio frequencies we use would be available for our hobby without the AMA. If you look at the group that developed the recommendations to the FAA, many had their own agendas. As full scale pilot, I have some of these groups in action before. Like all things developed as a group, not everyone get everything they want.

    So, Monday morning get up and register. There is no specification on the size of the registration numbers. It can be inside the model if you do not need tools to get to it. Print up a bunch of Avery 1/2 inch labels and mark your aircraft.

    Remember the AMA is trying to promote self regulation within the hobby. If AMA members do not register, then AMA position becomes weaker and the Feds could use a heavier hand.

  127. I envision that AMA sanctioned clubs will require proof of registration for new and renewing members. I can’t imagine the AMA extending coverage to non-registered pilots.

  128. This new rule is in violation of the law and the AMA should immediately seek a restraining order to prevent this ruling fro going into effect.

  129. This is very typical of the government enforcement agencies. If they have a problem they seldom go to the source, the person who committed the violation and use existing laws to prosecute them to the fullest degree IF it is truly a hazard like flying to close to commercial aircraft etc. If they do they never advertise it which as we all know does wonders in correcting attitudes.
    They have chosen again to let the violator remain nameless but instead BLAME an entire segment of society for the violation in spite of the fact that the vast majority are quietly going about their business in a very appropriate manner.
    Politicians can correct any of societies problems just by taking taxpayers money and throwing it at the problem, from a distance preferably, so that they will not be identified with the problem.
    Naturally $ 1.67 seems like a ridiculously small amount of money but multiply that by the numbers of AMA members and it becomes very large, like government budget numbers.
    It is time to correct he problem with the KISS SYSTEM, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, if you have some ding bat out there violating the law, catch him, convict him and fine the hell out of him. Keep it simple, if someone runs a stop sign, write him/her a ticket, you don’t fine everyone who owns a car for the violation.
    Next year they will try to attach a $5.00 per plane fee so that those living on entitlements can get free booze and dope.
    I am a AMA member and newly POed Person.

  130. I think all the leadership should step down. By embracing drones instead of defending the aircraft pilots in our organization they threw us under the bus.

  131. I don’t care for the new FAA rules either, but come Monday I’ll fill out the stupid form, get my number and write it on all my aircraft beginning with “FU####”. I have better things to be pissed off about than this stuff. The people who are flying their UAS around airports and above civil/mil aircraft won’t be putting any numbers on their UAS anyhow, and not having a FAA number before flying a new UAS won’t restrict the flight.

  132. Let’s see, now that many control in flyers are using 2.4ghz to control some of their scale functions, I guess that means c/like flyers will have to register their flight systems also! Seems it’seems getting all of us.

    How about AMA insurance? Is that the next step? Will AMA require both numbers on/in our aircraft to be covered?

  133. Why not act by starting a petition on change.org to roll this nutty rule back? HQ staff, where are you on this? We ought to be able to get over 100,000 signatures overnight.

    Geoff Sanders
    AMA 11285

  134. I’m speachless. What possible authority can the FAA have over modelers that already, as rule-abiding members of the AMA, now what is safe to do and not do based on the rules published by the AMA? We as members of the AMA must be exempt from the new FAA registration process as long as we are AMA members in good standing. This is what has to be pointed out to those in the FAA that are assuming all model aircraft (and ‘drone’) operators are knuckleheads willing and able to be a risk to full-scale civilian and commercial aircraft.

    I say, let the new ‘drone’ owner get some type of minimal AMA certificate and state that this person will comply with AMA’s rules and that’s it. Done. FAA has the registration it wants through the auspices of the AMA.

  135. So many complaints, I’m not happy with this either so I did something about it I wrote my Representative and my Senator. Let your voice be heard call, email or write your elected reps, let them know how you feel.

    John Osbon
    AMA 645379

  136. As a modeler who started RC before I was a teen and being an active modeler since 1974, I have a lot tied up in this hobby – monetarily, equipment/tools and experience. I’d like to hear a few things from AMA about what they are going to do (besides tell us the FAA’s new rules):
    1) What is the current status of the lawsuit over the definition of a model airplane?
    2) Since this is an ongoing lawsuit, will AMA ask the judge for a injunction preventing the FAA from implementing the registration before the lawsuit is settled (from what I heard the FAA has drug it’s feet and has required extensions getting information to the court).
    3) If an injunction cannot be issued under the current definition lawsuit, is the AMA seriously considering a separate lawsuit to gain an injunction?
    4) Has AMA discussed a class action lawsuit with other interested parties to stop this implementation?

  137. The FAA is clearly ignoring the law Congress passed in 2012, which clearly states the FAA may not regulate model aircraft. I’ve written my congressman (Jeff Miller (R)), and two senators, Bill Nelson(D), and Marco Rubio. All three voted for the 2012 bill. None of them responded to my letter.

    It is clear Congress won’t do anything to reign in the FAA. The FAA believes it is empowered to regulate a paper airplane if you fold one up and give it a toss.

    The FAA Notice N JO 7210.889, effective date, 27 Oct 15, states model aircraft may not operate higher than 400 ft. Page 3, Paragraph 9.c (Model Aircraft-Hobbyist), subparagraph (2)(a) states: “Fly at or below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles.” You fly above 400 ft and you risk fine and/or jail time.

    This 400 ft limit will kill our outdoor R/C hobby. The precision aerobatics pattern tops out above 750 ft. Gliders come off the line at 500+ feet and go up. Powered gliders kill the motor at 150 meters and go up. When training with my buddy box I’m flying above 400 ft.

    I’ve written to the AMA executive director and Rich Hansen (FAA rep) on this issue asking for guidance. They, like my elected representatives, have failed to answer.

    The only remedy here is for the AMA to lead a group of hobby aircraft makers and retailers and sue.

  138. Does anyone know how the FAA is going to reach those who built a multi-rotor UAS, and flies it in the nearby school yard, to get them to register? I know several who do not know who AMA is, or any other aspect of this hobby. They just think its cool to put a Hero on a UAS and send it around town (these are the ones that need to be reached).

  139. A sad day for those of us involved in this hobby. The AMA should take some of the dues money we pay and get an attorney. Looks like they don’t have one or the injunction would have already been filed it court to challenge this.

  140. Apparently no one remembers when transmitters had to be registered with the FCC! Even the simple little single channel transmitters that did nothing more than turn the frequency off and on. Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere in all the comments. It wasn’t a big deal. Eventually it went away. Maybe the government will eventually do the same with this stupid registration program. The part I don’t like I is the data base that can be hacked and possibly use my registration number like a stolen car license plate

  141. I just rejoined the AMA almost fifty years away from the hobby after inheriting my dad’s model airplane’s to fly control line, precision aerobatics in particular, in his memory. He continued to pay his AMA dues even after having a property big enough for him to safely with no danger hurting other people to support this hobby. Way to let our family down. What am I wasting $58.00 dollars a year for.
    Michael David Millard

    1. But there’s a big difference. The pilot of an ultralight has a very strong personal interest in operating safely, for if he doesn’t he faces a real possibility of serious injury or death. When a sUAS crashes, the pilot faces almost zero chance of personal injury.

  143. SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT

    Doesn’t this mean none of us hobbyist’s have to abide by the FAA’s new registration as Congress have determined the rules already for us? Unless we all sheepishly sign up.

  144. I hate to say it, but this looks like an “AMA vs FAA ligation” or good by AMA moment.

  145. This FAA rule is stupid. Where is the AMA government relations department? Why not get with the congressional leaders and have them put pressure on the FAA to recent it and regulate the Drones that are the problem. This is another example of the current administration that has no one with enough sense to understand what is going on in the country.

  146. I talked to a man who is on the ama board about 6 months ago and he said then this was coming . Ama new this then that is why they raised there dues. Ama you have sold out your members and more than likely taken government bribes, not another dime will you get from me! I hope you loose all your members. U ama have let this happen!

    1. I attended a FlySafe conference in May of 2014. Rich Hanson was there and gave a talk about possible FAA regulations. I had a brief conversation with him after his presentation, where he told me “registration numbers on aircraft, get ready for it”. This was over a YEAR AND A HALF ago. Yes, the AMA knew this was coming.

  148. Way to go AMA “government relations team” !!! Way to be an advocate for all of us that have been paying your fees every year for the past few freakin decades! Been flying anything I want since I was 7 years old and never , ever, ever in a billon years figured somehow the government would be able to get its hand in my personal hobby. As far as AMA is concerned ….your dead to me right now. I have invested my time, money, knowledge, blood, sweat, and tears into this hobby only to now be regulated and taxed. Not happening. Take your rules and shove me up ye old tail pipe. I will fly my “drones” on my time, where I want , when I want until the Man himself comes and takes me to model airplane jail. Any of you people even considering registering with these idiots better think again. Seems like THE fastest way to make the Terror watch list, besides hanging an ISIS flag in your front yard! What the hell is wrong with this country , and you ?.. AMA What a joke

  149. I think that the AMA will rat us all out to the FAA just to add
    a little more pain to the screwing were getting.

  151. I have been a ama member for over 15 years but I do not plan on renewing my membership as I truly believe you have let me down and instead of putting up a fight you caved in and paid for lunch on my behalf. As a retired business man I know all to well how things of this nature gets done and truly believe you are more worried about your own ability to have a pay check off of all the people who you should have fought for. We all know that once government gets in they take over and kill all enjoyment and never are they satisfied until they tax it to death. All I can say is shame on you.

  152. AMA needs to answer the questions whether AMA Chartered Clubs must verify that all members/individuals flying at Club fields are: (1) FAA ‘registered’…(2) their aircraft have their correct FAA assigned number affixed…(3) whether AMA liability coverage is voided in the event AMA members/Clubs are found not to conform with these new FAA regulations. These are just a few questions everyone must have answers to – and quickly(!)

    1. It is the individual pilot’s responsibility to make sure that they are registered with the FAA. The club does not have police this.

      All accident claims are reviewed by a Third Party Administrator (TPA), who makes coverage determinations based on the unique circumstances and details of each incident and the language of the appropriate insurance policy. The TPA would not deny a claim solely on the premises that the AMA member did not register with FAA.

  153. OK AMA officers – how does my 15 year old grandson register when he can’t have a credit card account?

  154. Not too far fetched they’ll go down the path of requiring an altimeter telemetry setup. That should be the next expectation of forcing things on us. Or even, a self-reporting violation function through a transponder. I read somewhere it is going to cost them ( really the taxpayer) about $56 million a year to run this program.

  155. I have not read all that is written here but in my observation of the my 66 years on this earth, for the time I have been aware, government agencies have positioned themselves for more and more territory and authority and TAX MONEY. AND REGISTRATION FEES ARE TAXES. As I recall, about ten years ago, the FAA pulled the pilots license of a very famous air show pilot, Bob Hoover, I think saying he was too old to have low level wavers to do air shows. Again, as I recall, the FAA acted outside of their authority, attempted to use strong arm methods and push their authority. I think it took a court decision to put the FAA back on track.

    A court order might be needed here to again put the FAA back in place.

    It is my opinion that this is only a first step in what is sure to be an argument by the FAA for more funding-more money. MARK MY WORDS THIS IS ALL ABOUT MONEY, AUTHORITY AND TERRITORY.

    THERE IS NO WAY THE FAA CAN ADMINISTER THIS PROCESS WITHOUT ASKING FOR MORE MONEY FROM OUR GOVERNMENT. I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING TAXED TO DEATH. A registration fee is a tax.

    This is a “FAA – MY TERRITORY – GIVE ME MORE MONEY ISSUE” PERIOD. “LOOK AT HOW MUCH MORE I HAVE TO DO”, THE FAA WILL SAY.

    The only way to stop this process is for the 185, 000 AMA members to write to their senators and congressmen a letter of protest with a well thought out logical reason as to why this FAA mandated registration process is a bad idea. Washington responds to load noises and 185,000 people can make a lot of noise.

    The AMA can draft a letter for all to use, then post the names and addresses and email addresses and phone numbers of all the congressmen and senators and let the paper and phone calls start.

    185,000 AMA members will have a loud voice and will be heard. And I would include a demand of the firing of the FAA officials that ignored the direction of both congress and the recommendation of the AMA.

    This is absolute “BULL@#%&”. And 2016 is an election year. Washington will hear that message.

  156. Of course you all realize this not about money or safety but about more government CONTROL.

  157. I’m not surprised by any of this. I knew it was bound to go down. I’ve been a avid modeler since the mid seventies, and these days I come to find little with ARF’s or Drones that have anything to do with modeling. In other words, if you didn’t build it it should not be supported by the AMA. No wonder true modelers are disappearing all over the country. The bigger your pocketbook the more trouble you can buy. I have never thought Drones and such be a part of this one time organization. NOW LOOK!!!! Thanks for listening to my rant. Either way “Droners” have ruined it for all of us.

    1. FYI. I began the hobby 6 years ago flying 450 class helis. I’ve also put together foamies and fly them. Granted, I haven’t built a balsa, but my grandpa did and let me fly them when I was 7 years old.
      I AM a droner as well because one of my other hobbies is photography.
      So to let you know… I fly my drone that has fpv and I fly it within the AMA guidelines. The only time I take my eyes off the aircraft at all is to check the framing of my shots.
      It’s not the “droners” as you put it that ruined it. It’s the FAA to refuse to use existing laws to prosecute the idiots that don’t know that the hell they are doing!

  158. Wow! What a waste of our tax dollars by a Federal office of non-elected officials. Unless those officials intend to use their own money they’ve collected from our taxes to fund the start of this program. Why not do a little work and prosecute those who are making trouble instead of doing an blanket sweep making everyone pay for their criminal acts. I put my name and phone number on my aircraft in hopes that should I loose it, I would be able to recover it or if it caused damage, I would be responsible for it. This is just a bit over-reaching don’t you think??

  159. Interesting situation now facing we RC pilots and local club officers. I am not concerned about the $5.00 fee and registration every three years. Not really a problem, just another irritation. One more thing to be concerned about in trying to remain “legal” while at the flying field. I am more concerned about the many thing along this FAA Registration path that we do not have a clue about. Will RC clubs have a responsibility for enforcing the FAA registration and deny flying access for anyone not properly displaying the FAA number on their airplanes? And how would we know if that number displayed on the airplane is a valid FAA registration number? Do we now require an FAA ID Card for all pilots as we do an AMA card? We have an honor system for displaying the pilot’s AMA cards and often do not have any one checking them during routine flying sessions. We do not have the manpower to insure that no FAA unregistered pilot is flying at our field. Are there plans for routine checkups to make sure that all 100+ pilots are properly registered with the FAA? When will these details be made available to AMA sanctioned clubs? Not to mention the prospect of giving the FAA my credit card number. Not comfortable with that either. Lots of questions and misgivings….. No answers nor assurances. Waiting impatiently.

  160. Mr. AMA president why did you raise our AMA dues and not fighting for our modeling rights. Do something instead of cowling down to these people. What a joke!!!!

  161. Did anyone in the FAA or DOT actually read

    SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT?

    Control line aircraft and large kites require FAA registration? Why not 9oz. rocks, 9 oz. sticks? Why do 9oz. Birds get out of it? They do more damage to commercial aircraft than any of us do. The FAA and DOT are preaching to the choir here and forcing them to register. This is silly. We are not sex offenders or Felons (yet). For the most part, we are people that enjoy aero modeling. Why are we being treated like OUR government needs to keep an eye on us? I am not too sure I want to see what phase 2 is going to include after Feb 19th. The FAA and DOT obviously do not have to obey the laws of the land. So, they are running the show and it seems they can do whatever they want with no regard to input from highly qualified experts (AMA). Rather sad I think. I am just waiting to see if AMA requires FAA registration in order to continue to be an AMA member. That will be very interesting. No one has asked THAT question of the AMA yet. Or, at least I have not heard it asked.

  162. In hindsight it seems when the AMA embraced quads/drones as model aviation they lumped our airplanes into the same category in the eyes of the FAA. As proof that the AMA embraced these flying robots, look at the drones on the cover of the AMA rag and all the advertising inside. Myself I was disgusted to see this and now it may come to pass that the AMA made the biggest error in it’s history. Chased the money and traded the cow for beans. They should have pushed hard to separate our hobby from the robots and maybe we would have escaped this escapade. Were they being politically correct or money grubbing, whichever it is they sure have crashed it into the ground.

  163. What about model rockets? Registered or not registered?

    No transmitters. Pretty sure they get above 400 feet too.

    Good idea… Every AMA member submit 50 “what if” email
    questions to the FAA and DOT.

    Their web site would swamp instantly out of pure registration curiosity.

  164. People come into this country to kill us and are undocumented
    But we as AMA members have to document our “model airplanes”
    AMA has dropped the ball on this one — When enough modelers
    leave the “Hobby” that’s the end of AMA —
    AMA needs a lesson from the NRA —

  165. By 2020 all US registered aircraft are required to have ADS B-out function (transmitters) in the aircraft.

    ADS B-out equipment broadcasts;  Aircraft registration#, GPS position, and speed to all ADS-B-in receivers for tracking purposes.

    My extrapolated prediction (possibly Phase 2):
    After UAS pilot registration is completed (Phase 1), the ADS- B out on board equipment will be required for UAS operation as well.  However,  the pilot registration number will be transmitted from the equipment, rather than the N number of registered aircraft.

    Hopefully, ADS B-out equipment will become small enough and light enough, to be transferred between models in use.  Assumption: a person can only fly one UAS, or aircraft at any one time.  So, there is a single point of blame to be assigned in either full scale or UAS cases.

    Anyway, the FAA can then track all flights within the US.  And far more easily go after any and all violators of their airspace infringement, NOTAMS,  or FAR violations.

    The media will broadcast accolades for making air carriers safe from marauding drones.
    John Q Public will ooo and ahh and continue to be entertained by broadcast news shows.

    I wonder what government agencies are working on active tracking missiles (or intercept drones) to eliminate any errant ADS B-out equipped aircraft.
    I suppose the next step is to make Electronic Counter Measure equipment to save the important aircraft from unauthorized attacks. … But, then I don’t really have inside information.

    Lordy, I hope no terrorists read this….
    They wouldn’t even have to hijack a plane to fly it into buildings, just send a drone after it to bring it down at certain GPS coordinates. I shudder to think…

  166. I to am not happy for another registration.
    All of use who fly fixed wing aircraft,heli’s or multi-rotor aircraft are all flying drones or uav’s of sorts. They are
    all flown from a hand held transmitter.
    The problems seem to originate from the inconsiderate people that have flown them in a unsafe manner resulting in reportable incidents or accidents.
    The issues seemed to surface with the influx the multi-rotor aircraft.
    I to am infatuated with them and probably will purchase one in the near future.
    This is a wonderful hobby that lets us all explore the many aspects of the hobby.
    There is a venue there for everyone to participate in as long as it is done in a safe many, following the guide lines set forth by the AMA.
    But as always it only takes a few to spoil it for all.
    Registering with the FAA for $5.00 does not seem like a big deal to me if it lets us law abiding people to continue to keep enjoying the hobby. Likely the one’s who abuse the hobby probably won’t register anyway.
    I have been in the hobby for 55 years and have seen a lot of thing come and go.
    I can remember the time when we had to register with the FCC to be “LEGAL” to fly our model aircraft.
    It is due to my hobby involvement, that I began to teach my son at age six to fly and enjoy all apex’s of this great hobby. It was from this that he is now fortunate to fly UAS “drones” in Afghanistan.
    Anyway from me, the registration is much to do about nothing if it allows us to continue to fly.

  168. AMA has become a political eye sore! They refuse to legally challenge the FAA and with that I will no longer be a member of this organization.

    The FAA has started with registration and eventually we will be paying taxes and other fees to fly and enjoy this hobby and the AMA will stand bye and do nothing.

    Can’t see any good reason to belong to AMA!

  169. Wow ,and I was wanting a lifetime membership for Christmas! What for now? Honestly you sold us out AMA ,you really did. Sad that a awesome hobby is on the eve of its death.

  170. The new FAA policy is exactly in line with how things are done in this country. Some group, often nameless, perceives there is a problem (or threat) and because they can gain some elevated level of public attention there is a reaction which is more times than not worse than the perceived problem. Far too often bureaucrats make policies and regulations which are not grounded in law but more times than not they get away with it because everyone complains but then waits for someone else to fix the problem. I for one am not quitting nor am I leaving it solely in the hands of the AMA. If these new regulations are not in line with the congressional act of 2012 then it is up to congress to step in and ask why. It is congress who has the power and authority to fix this and I fully intend to ask my congressional representatives to look into this and fix it. The AMA can try to leverage changes by saying it represents xx number of hobbyists but in the end it’s us, the hobbyists, who can if we are willing to fight bring the real pressure to bear.

  171. • You must mark all aircraft with your registration number. The number can be inside the aircraft, such as a battery hatch – but should not require tools to access.

    Okay, what about my models that have bolt on wings? AMA, you could not even beat that rule?

  172. The Ama Has just laid down for the final time and betrayed the members that pay there salaries. the members would have been better served to take the $50 and sent it to a Law firm that might actually fight the FAA on unjust and potentially unlawful actions. Enjoy your AMA insurance as it will soon be gone as well as home owner policies begin excluding coverage for our hobby items and the AMA insurance drops us. Don’t think it will happen? It already did in the 70s when homeowner policies claimed our models were excluded as flying aircraft and the AMA lost insurance for 2 years. Now the FAA have now classified our models as Aircraft.

  173. So what am I supposed to do about my scale models? All my wings are bolted requiring a tool. so now I have to ruin my P40 with some registration number on the bottom somewhere? This is really stupid and I can not believe the AMA doesn’t tell the FAA we will not comply. Registration not being a new regulation is double speak. Stupid stupid stupid

  174. Is the AMA going to file suit on behalf of it members for or not? Or must we form another organization that will? AMA you let your members down.

  177. AMA you sold each and every member out!!!! You did nothing!!!! You achieved nothing!!! I’m done…. I’m selling everything and taking my two young daughters, whom are registered pilots and going back to rc cars.

  178. I think we should not comply, and boycott this whole registration process. Do you want the governments hand in every facet of your life ? The AMA is supposed to be looking out for its membership, I would like to see some balls here and stand up for the membership. What is the purpose of this registration ?, other than getting more money from a government weary population. I say no, if the AMA will not stand up to the FAA than every pilot in the country must say NO in one very loud and unified reply. Its not the five bucks I am protesting it is the stupidity on the rule. If someone was planning to do something illegal with a model aircraft, do you think they are going to put their registration number in it ?? Simply put, NO !!! Lets put a stop to this nonsense now before it gets out of hand. Talk to fellow club members at your field if we all say no, the FAA will have to sit down with the AMA and follow the intent the congress has put forth to not interfere with our hobby. I am sure that there are legitimate instances that may warrant registration, but not every model pilot in the country.

  179. A couple questions . . .
    What is the penalty for NOT complying with this misguided rule?
    I am willing to consider challenging this rule in court but I would assume legal advice has already been sought out… is that right? Does anyone know?

  180. This registration is thing is absurd. What happened to democracy? Time for a “tea party”! No more taxes!

  181. I guess it is the right time to go back to control line and free flight before the politicians figure out they want to register those also.

  182. This is only the tip of the “ICE BERG” How many more govt. employees to addmester

  183. AMA, I pay you dues to fight big brother, so start fighting, instead of blowing smoke up are arses. AMA, you have raised my dues greatly, now earn that raise. I don’t want to believe that you are just lining your pockets with my hard earned money, but it is beginning to look that way. People don’t want more Big Brother control..

  184. I see no incentive to comply or participate as an already responsible aircraft operator. If they could not track toy airplanes before, they still can’t if they remain unregistered. “Not Register” is exactly what the reckless operators who caused this mess are going to do anyway. The only people who are going to be punished are those who register and follow the rules but then their aircraft becomes unresponsive and crashes somewhere and some uninformed johnny-do-good non-RC type will find it and called the police. The bomb squad will be called in. The area evacuated. The poor AMA sap with his name on the plane will be labeled a hideous “drone” operator by the media and the media will say “and there was a school (GASP!) only 10 miles from impact!”. Poor AMA guy will be charged with terrorism and denied due process. He will lose his job. His security clearance. His wife, kids and home and added to the TSA no fly list. All the while some clown is crashing his multicopter into a wedding cake while everyone but the bride laughs and laughs. Just a thought. As for me I think I will unregister myself from AMA, remove my info from the toy and avoid being seen around the club anymore.

  185. I don’t mind paying club dues because I can see were my money is going to. I don’t like to even have to join the AMA. It cost a lot and the dues are going up. They donate to charities that I don’t agree with and I have my own charities I give to, so they force me to join just for the insurance and spend my dues money for charities . They don’t do anything for us except for the insurance which doesn’t work when you need it, also they didn’t do a thing to stop the FAA just a lot of talk and a big lobbying expense bill to pay for out of our dues. That is why the dues are going up. The magazine is pretty well worthless, just a bunch of preaching about safety, its like beating a dead horse. There is risk in every hobby. I just like our club,flying rc airplanes and the friendship of our club members.

  186. It’s all about the money. Now a local cop can ask for your number while you are flying. If you don’t have it you are going to have to pay a large fine. Fines will be left to municipalities and can be as high as they want. They will be coming to fun flies with their ticket book. Hey day income for cops. We will all be guilty until we can prove our innocence. This is just the start. They can’t seem to stop terrorist so they go after us. Pitiful and incomprehensible liberal politics.

  187. Did anyone else notice this?: ” the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft…..”. That’s why the DOT was tasked to do this. They are not obligated to honor this part of the regulation.

    1. Considering it’s an FAA rule/regulation, then they did.
      I don’t care how they try to work around sec 336. It’s ILLEGAL.
      And AMA is just a bunch of wimps that take $75/yr from us for what?? Allowing us to fly at clubs? I’m no longer a member of any club. I don’t go to fun flys. And if AMA doesn’t do something about this, then I’m no longer an AMA member either.

  188. INSANE!!! NOW YOU KNOW WHY I HAVEN”T RENEWED MY DUES IN 4 YEARS AMA!!! YOU DONT DO SQUAT TO PROMOTE NEW FIELDS AND BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO PROMOTE THE INSANE FEDERAL BUREAUCRACY THAT IS OUT OF CONTROL>> THANKS FOR NOTHING!!

  189. What a sad situation this is. The FAA is confronted with a monumental problem of balancing the truly serious needs of military, commercial and private aviation needs when along comes a few hundred thousand model airplane enthusiasts getting their shorts in an uproar because they have to register as flyers. The sky has suddenly opened up to all, with neither the love of flight itself,nor skill or practice. It should come as no surprise that flight should be subject to abuse when it comes at so little cost or effort. in my 20 some odd years of model flying I have seen violations of AMA guidelines, common sense guidelines and FAA regulations by some of my fellow flyers. While these were admittedly relatively minor infractions, at the time they wre commited no one considered the possibility of an intent to commit harm. The FAA now has to consider “intent to commit harm” as a very real thing. There have been a great many complaints from my fellow modelers about any form of registration or regulation. Please recognize that as a modeler you share the sky with human life and regretably, you may share it with someone of evil intent. Register and be happy, freedom is not free. BQ

    1. Bob, I don’t even know where to begin. How about if we punish people what they do, and not everyone for what they might do? What does intent have to do with anything?

      1. John, thank you for reading my comments. What I was referring to when I said the FAA has to consider evil intent is the fact that drones in particular and even our model airplanes are fully capable of carrying explosive devices. My fellow club members and I have been asked by local authorities to report any “suspicious” modeling activity. Our flying field is located about six miles from a major U.S. airport. It does’nt require a great deal of imagination that a person of evil intent might attempt to intercept a commercial aircraft on landing approach. We see these airliners at fairly low altitude crossing our field routinely. We once witnessed a non club member actually try to chase one of these airliners. We testified against him, he did it on a lark but was nonetheless fined by the police and had his plane confiscated. He now flies responsibly. In summary i am saying that the FAA in trying to maintain a safe sky has an awful lot of people to satisfy and unfortunately we may be slightly inconvenienced. We go through a luggage check and a personal scan when we board an airplane because we recognize there are people of evil intent trying to harm us. We live in a complex highly technological society and some people wish to exploit that technology to do harm. Respectfully BQ

  190. I’m a little sick & tired of hearing the ‘same old party line’ about all the wonderful representation the AMA is providing us, now reduced to “we’re disappointed”. When are we going to turn our efforts into getting Congressional involvement in reining in the FAA’s dictatorial edicts that run “…counter to Congress’s intent in the Special Rule for Model Aircraft”? There’s few things in this universe that upset our legislators more than acting contrary to their rulings – why haven’t we exploited this?!?

    Instead we have “… the best way to streamline the registration process for AMA members going forward” – smoothing the way as we’re herded towards the ovens.

    BAH!!!

  191. Hola Amigo’s,

    First, I am seriously disappointed that membership would have a beef with the executive committee of our organisation. I feel strongly they have done more than a reasonable job dealing with this issue.

    That said, I am a commercial pilot and have had to deal with the toothless dogs at the FAA for years. They will enforce what regulations they can that do not impact big business and are so ‘personal safety oriented’ that one cannot even get into their offices (FSDO’s etc) without an appointment…..their doors are locked 24/7.

    In this case I believe they have clearly overreached. It is on us, the membership of AMA to chill, support our elected club officers who are doing work each one of us benefits from. At the end of the day (or next week)….I think there will be ‘developments’.

    I have sometimes heard it said, ‘Lead, follow or get out of the way’. Being as how I am not eager nor capable of doing the sort of work our club officers are doing, I’m gonna ‘follow’.

    All the Best,

    Roger Anderson
    Sherwood, Oregon

  192. I wonder if i am a registered RC pilot does this open me up to more flying area that is off limits to non-registered ones? i mean what do i get for my money that i am being forced to give to the government on top of the money that they force out of my pay check every time i get paid. maybe if they could give us something not just say they want all of our information making me feel like some kind of criminal just because i have a hobby that other people that have broken the law or done something wrong. again i really dont have a problem identifying that i own anything i fly but i dont think this will stop at 5 dollars. every time the government finds that they can get a little money from something it just keeps getting more and more. i feel like this stopped being a free country when they started telling me i had to wear a seatbelt and it just keeps getting to be more and more controlled.

  193. I have two hobbies-sailing and model flying. In 1965 the FCC marine radio license fee was $10. In 2015, its $215. This will happen to model flying if you roll over and accept the FCC decision. I would rather spend $50 fighting the the illegal actions of the FAA than pay them their $5. I suggested to the AMA that they push for proof of liability insurance rather than registration, but that got ignored too. If the AMA doesn’t organize a way to fight the FAA on this, we need a new organization.

  194. I just read the AMA e-mail. I can not believe that the AMA would let this situation get this far. All this rule will do is put more money in the political “kitty” and has nothing to do with security of the homeland. This requirement is the same as our current gun laws. Does anyone seriously think that a person who intends to do harm using a model aircraft will post his name and number in it. How naive can you get! It’s time AMA steps up to the plate for the members’ and go back to Congress or court, if we have to. What’s next?

  195. The unfortunate situation is that our AMA is not waiting for litigation to follow it’s course! Let’s just lay down and do exactly what the Government wants us to do as always, even though so much is in questionable litigation. It’s not the registration factor, it’s that there is no distinction between drones and other recreational MODEL aircraft. Getting in bed with the drones may of not been the brightest idea AMA. I believe our leadership is weak on this and I’m very disappointed with them.

    1. So what is your beef with people that fly multirotor helicopters? How are they not recreational MODEL aircraft? Is it because they’ve been redesignated “DRONES” and that sounds scary? Does it remind you of other organizations that fly DRONES and actually do hurt and kill people? (Who would that be?) Do the extra two rotors make people that fly them second class citizens to people that fly helicopters? Or three too many for plankers? Do you have motor envy? And don’t start with “oh they’re too easy” and “let’s just register gyros”. If you haven’t noticed, all the same technology is being incorporated into your beloved planes and helicopters.

      We’re just like you. We just like more spinny things on our models. Get over yourself.

  196. #1, this is essentially un-enforceable… they’d have about as much luck trying to make everyone who owns or purchases a laser pointer pen to register with the FAA. Duhhh!
    #2, people that are intending to do bad things with an unmanned remotely controlled aircraft are certainly NOT going to register with the FAA first! Duhhh!
    #3, stupid people with more dollars than sense who go out and buy themselves a fancy new “drone” (ie. multi-rotor aircraft often referred to as a “quad-copter”) aren’t going to stop to think to register with the FAA either (and refer back to my #1 point). Duhhh!

    #4, the simplest way to influence this bad idea is non-compliance… yep, if a low enough percentage actually register with the government the program will collapse on it’s own and the “rule” will be changed I assure you. What are they going to do throw a hundred thousand American citizens in prison for failing to register their little .40 sized trainer airplane? Just saying… the AMA should refuse to promote this registration system to it’s sizable membership IMHO.

    Probably many of you don’t recall when the Coast Guard enacted a new regulation to require EVERY private “boat” bigger than a kayak or canoe to be registered with the Coast Guard and pay for a Coast Guard sticker to be placed on the craft’s hull… even if said “boat” was exclusively used in waterways where there was absolutely no Coast Guard presence. They tried this back in the 1990’s at some point or other. So few boaters registered their boats with the Coast Guard that the program collapsed… and the rule was changed to exclude virtually all non-commercial private “boats”. So there is a precedent… non-compliance, simply refuse to register. Duhhh!

    On a side note, I’d very much like to see the government try to force ALL gun owners to register with the government! That would be fun, now wouldn’t it? LMAO! ROF! Think about it.

    And back on track, if the AMA does decide to hand over the AMA membership roster to the FAA without the AMA members permission, I won’t be part of the AMA any more! I provide my information to the AMA when I renew each year with the legal understanding that the AMA will not share my information with anyone without my knowledge AND consent. I do not give my consent! 😐

  197. Never before in our history has a single type of model every had such an instant and negative affect as had the Multi-Rotor. Park Flyers came close because they were available in a similar way as the multi’s, “We don’t need a club, we don’t need association protection or information, we can fly where and how we want and now one can stop us”. What stopped them was when crashed they were seldom repaired, or batteries recharged, the “fun”went out of them and the guys moved on to something else. In the case of the multi rotor, self stabilization, the thrill of video and photo taking, FPV, CHEAP and a huge selection even at gas stations, plus the attraction to electronics guys, etc spread them across the globe like an invading parasite. The users aren’t and weren’t malicious, they had no idea that their “freedom” came a huge cost to us, modelers and AMA members who had more invested (most of our lives in fact) in our hobby – than a credit card slip. If they lost the ability to play with their “drones”, they’d simply move on to bowling or shooting or something else. What has been left in the wake of those few Dronies who caused public outcry and fear? Us, and the FAA trying to get a handle on the infection. When a drone flyer was asked if he belonged to a representing group or association, the reply was don’t need it. Don’t need a club, don’t need a flying field, don’t need help (got RC Groups!), Don’t need anyone, in fact, wouldn’t know if anyone was around because of the FPV goggles covering his eyes. Now that we are left with the actions, they want to whine about the FAA being unfair, that they are being picked on, singled out, etc. They rage against the bums that have been working for us fighting the frustrating battle with government employees threatened and pressured to get control of Drones. Those of you beating up on our AMA guys should be ashamed. You all did nothing to help. How many Dronies did you invite to join us in the battle. How many times did you stop to try to explain the potential consequences of their actions? They got us banned from all the National Parks and property….us. No silently slope soaring with the eagles anymore because people operated their mobile camera platforms in front of nests, chased animals, violated camper privacies, and presented lipo bomb fire hazards without a second thought about their actions. We have operated sailplanes for what 50 years without as much as a question from Park Rangers. Put your outrage in the right direction, not at the guys who tried their best to convince the FAA and the public that its not “us”, while weekly reports of Drones causing problems in cities, neighborhoods, sporting events, airports, etc poured in behind them. I feel that this will be a good thing for “us” in the long run, because it will further differentiate modelers from “operators”.
    Club President, LSFV, Leader Member, CD and Part 2 out of three Generations of AMA member/modelers
    You?

    1. Gordy, you’re going to make me cry. I had no idea that I, as a multirotor pilot, was such a huge drag on you, your organization, your club, and civilization. Now I just feel stupid for paying those club and membership dues, and following all those rules.

      1. i agree sorry!!!
        but just so you know i flew planes first well to tell the truth i flew kits first. then planes then helicopters and yes i have multirotors..i also have an rc truck and a boat.
        yes multirotors have had a lot of people get into them. all that has done has made alot more people in what i thought was a group of people that enjoyed flying to fight for the rights of us all to fly and enjoy our hobby.
        after reading the past couple of days i am starting to feel like some of the people that belong to the same AMA that i do are one sided multirotor raceists.

    2. Gordy, it sounds like you yourself are a drone. And a pompous one at that.

      And more dangerous to this hobby than the drones(and people) that you are “whining” about.

  198. I think it is time for us all to unite and stand up to the FAA with a protest of non compliance of this rule. Congress wrote the law and passed it to protect our hobby. Now it is our turn to show our support of the Congressional Law that exempts us from this new ruling. Take the protest to the news papers and to TV and Radio talk shows and make our voice heard. Call and write to your congressmen and senators. It is Congress that needs to move on the FAA and have this ruling removed. I appreciate the work done by the AMA but I think they have caved in on this. AMA should be getting out there and making HEAVY contact with Congress to repeal this ruling by the FAA.If AMA doesn’t push heavily forward in getting this revoked I will no longer support AMA. I’ll buy my own insurance and fly somewhere other than a sanctioned club if they will no longer allow me to fly at there field. this has to be stopped now. If this continues it will only grow bigger with the FAA wanting more and more control over us. Remember it isn’t the money aspect of this, it is the fact that the FAA is violating the federal law. Everyone needs to work at getting this noticed and we need to keep pressure on the AMA to help get this repealed, not just a work around of using our AMA number for registration. NO registration is the right answer and the only answer period.

  199. I am a member of The Sangamon County R/C Flyers, Pawnee IL. I have also been a member of AMA during the same time as I have been a club member. I see the new rules by the FAA as just another intrusion of our government into my private life. Once again let’s demonize our law abiding citizens because we have a few idiots who think that flying near a commercial or private aircraft is some sort of a game. If we catch someone endangering aircraft, and the people on board they should be charged with attempted murder,and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. NO EXCEPTIONS! I am an occasional R/C airplane flyer. Under these current regulations I will no longer continue flying, or being an AMA member. I am obviously a greater threat than ISIS,SYRIAN REFUGEES, or any other major threats to the USA.

  200. I’m into hobby rocketry as well as RC. A few years ago Tripoli and NRA beat the BATF when they overreached and tried to put APCP on the high explosives list where it clearly doesn’t belong. It took years and millions of hobbyist dollars but we won. I’m guessing that the AMA has better resources that we had. Yes there were some fundraising campaigns. I believe this rulemaking is illegal. It would be unconscionable for the AMA, our only capable organization, to not demand that the FAA submit the 2012 law passed by congress or face the same legal pressure that Tripoli and NAR but on the BATF.

  202. Here’s an idea. What if everyone just says NO? Gonna put 185,000 Plus peopple in Jail? Going to fine each and every one of them? (How will you do that when you don’t know who anyone is?_). Timeto tell the government to pound sand.

  203. I think this rule is a bunch of horse poop, especially needing to register things that weigh 5.5 LBS, but I have a real question. Is this weight aircraft weight or flight weight? I have model aircraft that weigh less than 5.5 LBS but the LiPo batteries I use to fly them weight more that 5.5 LBS themselves. So clarification is needed.

  204. Very disappointed with our AMA leaders because they should defend our rights stated on the FAA Modernization And Reform Act Of 2012 Section 336.

    I think that someone with knowledge of the law has to write a document asking Congress to enforce section 336 of the FAA Modernization And reform Act Of 2012 so we, the AMA members, can sign it and get the FAA out of our life.

    1. I suggest that everyone should contact Senator James Inhofe, R-OK.

      Senator Inhofe wrote the bill that exempts hobbyists from FAA regulation.

      Here is the link to Senator Inhofe’s website contact info.

      https://www.inhofe.senate.gov/contact

      By politely letting Senator Inhofe know(he might not be aware of what the FAA has just “proclaimed”) that unelected bureaucrats led by a political hack….aka Michael Huerta(head of the FAA)….has essentially “flipped the bird” at Senator Inhofe.

      If enough people contact Senator Inhofe via the above contact info(there are a wide variety of ways to do so), politely implying that FAA Huerta just “thumbed his nose” at the waiver that Senator Inhofe helped to establish, perhaps Senator Inhofe can do something about this.

      For the sake of our hobby, please take the time to send Senator Inhofe an email, etc. to inform him of what FAA Huerta thinks of Senator Inhofe’s legislation.

      Just keep mentioning that the unelected Huerta is usurping the legislation that Senator Inhofe had written into Federal Law….making the unelected Huerta as the bad guy(which he is)…and that Senator Inhofe is the only person we can turn to.

      If 100,000+ emails are sent to Senator Inhofe, we WILL get his attention.

      Feel free to contact him and his office as many times as you possibly can.

      Just remember, be polite to Senator Inhofe……but feel free to politely “slam” that unelected political hack named Michael Huerta(FAA Administrator).

    1. taken from the FAA FAQs
      https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
      Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?
      A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.

      1. Seriously? Ama is supporting this? What are they gonna do, fine everyone? How much resource will it take to find everyone flying? The police cannot do anything about enforcement nor will they. There is no criminal law stating I cannot fly a toy airplane. Stop regurgitating the faa propaganda and tell us what you are going to do to stop this!

  206. I called the FAA and spoke to the department in charge at length after reading the 122 page pdf and the 17 page interpretation pdf. I asked if I was flying at a designated flying field insured by my AMA membership did I need to register. During the conversation I posed the same question in different ways and the answer each time was no, if I flew at a sanctioned community airfield, I did NOT need to register. OK now who’s in charge at the FAA and who is right?

  207. This is only the beginning. I joined both the local club and AMA soon after starting to fly quadcopters about a year ago. After reading the entire rule, I see the FAA can require both more money and more information in three years, as well as credit card payment. You will also have to prove your identity to their satisfaction. Pilot licensing can’t be far behind. But local laws are being enacted that eclipse the FAA’s rules. Los Angeles just enacted a total ban of all FPV flight and all night flight, even indoors. There was already a law against flying in parks. The Los Angeles Police are supposed to cite pilots in violation of any FAA rules. This is remarkable because the LAPD can’t enforce the traffic laws anymore. The citations are misdemeanors carrying a thousand dollar fine or a year in jail. The AMA hasn’t said a word about this, and isn’t prepared for a tough fight with the FAA or anybody else. They’re an advertising business like AARP. A previous poster is right, what’s needed is a fanatical organization like the NRA. The options are ignore the rules, fight, or take up something else.

  208. You can count me out for next year’s AMA membership flown before with out this shit will fly again with out all this shit Thanks for ruining a great thing.

  210. BTW for anyone interested in asking the FAA for themselves, the direct phone number is (202) 267-8306.

    Or Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
    Phone: (202) 267-3883

    This is the office the FAA says is in charge of the registration and where I was told on a phone call, that if I am flying at a designated model flying field I did not have to register for anything. If that is true, it means it exempts most of us flyers and not the over my/your house video spy-ers.

    They also informed me that nothing is final, and there are still things to sort until the 21st yet and they are continuing to work with the AMA on the final registration designation and changes.

  211. Watched the press conference. Not impressed with the AMA part of it. Go ahead and say we dont agree with this and feel its a bad idea, and we already have a system in place, etc etc. A guy with a pair would have done so.

    But this is a political thing and so its just all a scam anyways.

  212. Don’t forget that the max penalty for not registering is “only” 3 years in jail. It’s much cheaper to drive a car without a license given that.

    If you read the FAQ, you’ll also see that it may actually become a federal crime for a non US citizen/permanent resident to fly a 251g RC foam plane since they are not able to register.
    Their language about Citizen vs permanent resident vs someone eligible to to be citizen (but not), is confusing to say the least.
    Either way, we now know that the FAA considers 251g foam planes to be weapons more dangerous than cars, and they’ve setup penalties and jail time accordingly.
    That’s not overreaching at all… and thank you for stupidly putting knowledgeable responsible low impact foam plane pilots in the same danger pool than “I just bought this 3kg hexacopter full of metal and carbon fiber blades that slice fingers”, let’s just go fly it around the neighbourhood, people.

  213. Where is AMA’s “protection” against this outrageous and seemingly illegal action against member modelers? Are we going to roll over and play dead. No legal response?? What’s next? Shall we send flowers? I am beyond dissapointed.

  214. $400 Million dollars?

    Interesting note: This has already been put in print. This new model airplane safety feature will be costing US tax payers a lot more than $5. Just for FAA administration and overseeing this office says it expects to be spending almost $50 MILLION to start it up and over $300 MILLION once under way…regulating how we play with our TOYS. How can it be regulated for free if it will costs this much?

  215. I think I will totally disregard whatever the FAA thinks they are going to require of me. And, if the AMA presses it, I’ll quit the AMA. I’ve been safely modeling and flying for over 50 years and have been an AMA member for a good part of my life. I feel betrayed. I also feel that the vast majority of us will not line up like good little sheep and register ourselves. There is no way in heck the FAA can enforce this upon us and it just will not work.

  216. I have been building, and flying model airplanes since the 1940s. I flew rubber free flight, U-Control, and in 1954 I flew rudimentary single channel, proportional Galloping-Ghost, and bang, bang rudder only RC with home built ESSCO Lorenze region receivers, Gyro ground based transmitter, and pulser. I used to fly with some of the great old time modelers Leon Schulman, Fran McElwee, George Kostura at Hadley’s Airport in South Plainfield, NJ. I have been a member of the AMA since 1949 when AMA sent out a stapled news letter monthly, no magazine. I re-joined the AMA in 1970 until the present about 45 years. First of all your AMA insurance is a second payer insurance, if you have a mishap with your model first your home owners is used as your primary insurance, then AMA insurance may pay a portion of the damages. So what are we getting for our newly increased dues. Nothing more than we got before. In the 1950s the dues were $5.00 for a senior, and $10.00 for open flyers. I currently build, and fly ultra micro 1/72 scale RC models, and 7″ to 9″ RC models of full size RC models all have REMAT control.Thats rudder, elevator, motor, ailerons, and trim controls.(ugly sticks, hots, Curare, Kaos, Live wire etc.) All weigh as much as 22 grams have 2 gram out-runner motors that develop 13 grams of thrust, and 1.5gram servos. I don’t need this kind of expensive AMA non-representation, and I will probably not renew my membership. As a senior (78 yrs.) its a real hardship paying AMA dues, and club dues totaling $165.00 a year to fly models. Now another $5.00 tax by the FAA. I can fly in my back yard or a park, and spend that money on some decent model magazines, instead of that monthly uninformative catalog we get every month. A huge failure by our elected AMA Representatives to stand-up for the rights of all the AMA membership.

    1. Well Steven we are close to being contemporaries since I’m 86 and also started flying in the fourties at age ten (did you start at two?) and went through all stages of model aircraft development. If you don’t find AMA membership desireable then do whatever you feel is right. I guess I’m somewhat less of a “grumpy old man” than you but I certainly don’t blame the AMA if some government agency only “consulted” them for appearances with the intention to ignore any input. I hope to see some legal objections with possibly an injunction since this does appear to be in violation of Congressional rulings. In the meanwhile I’ll not “register” and get on some governmental “watch list” since this thing is obviously not enforceable. Who is going to do it? The situation that it includes “tethered” models which would include U-control models makes it so obviously beyond reason as to be self-defeating.

  217. This so missed up congress gives us a waiver, but the FAA can over ride Congress. I forget who is it that makes the federal laws?
    Now take this in ultra lites and hange gliders do not have to register their aircraft. I fully expect our representatives in the AMA to stand up for us and tackle this head on, they have done a good job so far now they need to finish it.

  218. After reading all the comments to night There are a lot of you who have not been keeping up with the AMA reports to us. They were doing their best but the cronies in the FAA don’t understand what we are all about and they don’t care none have ever flown RC and have no interest in it and so in their opinion we are all a bunch of idiots.
    So all that have posted here write your congress, don’t waste it here come on get them letters out.

  219. AMA, I would guess you saw this coming months ago and thus the reason for the 2 year deal on our dues. You have covered your selfs for 2 years. What was the take rate for two year renewals? I would bet high, you have secured your selfs for two years and then what? File against the FAA and take this to the top. This is why we are members.

  220. This is one reason I’m an AMA member. I thought the AMA would fight such things! Seems to me they’re just bowing down to the FAA! I mean what is the increase in my yearly dues going toward? Apparently not upholding my hobby!
    I know so many young people who have backed out of joining the RC hobby due to these types of government interference. Also who will not join the AMA because they think they can just fly in their back yard and not have to worry about having to pay the AMA and now the FAA! Not my thinking but seems to be what most new flyers are thinking!

  221. This is more “security theatre” (see Wikipedia), that is, regulations designed to make you feel safe without actually making you safe. Like airport security. Or “quality seals” on your milk. In addition, it is a direct assault on our constitutional right to avoid unreasonable search and seizure. The search part is now, when they force us to register and thus inform the government of what lies in our workshops. That makes the seizure part easy a few years down the road when they decide to “round up” the newly illegal model aircraft. If you think that will never happen then I suggest you read more history. The most absurd thing is that in many states there will now be fewer regulations to operate an assault rifle than to operate a model aircraft.

    I do not want AMA to use my AMA number to register me, and if they do so I will leave the AMA and “un-register”. Also, as an act of protest I publicly refuse to register . I suggest you do the same, and write your Congressman and Senators to tell them why. The President too, since the Director of FAA works for him. And a letter to each Supreme Court justice wouldn’t hurt either, since I am sure this one is destined for the Court. Speaking of, AMA leadership, isn’t it about time to stop bending over for the FAA and challenge this in court?

  222. Prohibition – Fail
    Border Patrol – Fail
    Drug Control – Fail
    Gun Control – Fail
    Education – Fail
    Health Care – Fail
    Welfare – Fail
    Medicaid/Medicare – Fail
    Job Creation – Fail
    Veterans Care – Fail
    Model Pilot Registration – Fail

    Intelligent Voting – Please do not follow suite

    Look at what you Representatives have done for your community, for you. If they did good, vote them back. If not vote them out!

  223. If I have to pay $5 to the FAA every three years to fly my planes, why should I pay the AMA $75 per year?

    It’s a very interesting question.

  224. THATS IT IM QUITTING THIS HOBBY ALLTOGETHER, ITS GETTING EXPENSIER BY THE DAY, I WENT TO THE FAA.GOV WEB AND ITS $5 PER AIRCRAFT, NOW TOYS THAT US AIRSPACE MUST PAY A FEE, WHATS NEXT A TAG IN YOUR ASS SO YOU, A PERSON HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE A PEDESTRIAN? THATS COMING ONE DAY, IF WE CAME UP TO THIS, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. THE WHOLE HOBBY INDUSTRY IN USA WILL LOSE HUGE PROFITS, AND HOBBYSHOPS WILL NOT EXIST ANY MORE. BYEBYE HOBBY

  225. There is no information about how you will be protected in the case that somebody puts your FAA number on their drone and misuses it.

    That’s a serious problem. How would you be able to defend yourself in that type of scenario?

  226. Just another form of taxation and goverment harassment! It’s not us model guy being the problem. It’s big goverment getting too big and taking our rights away. We need to stop this now before it is too late!

  227. Putting all my planes up fpr sale. The people who fly the drones and do not obey the rules will not register. Goes like everything else this government requires. My guns never hurt anyone but I have to register them and it’s the unregistered ones that causes the killings 99% of the time. If everyone refuses to pay the AMA the will get off there duff and do something.

  228. I read an earlier FAA statement about the 400′ rule or suggestion, whatever it was supposed to be. It doesn’t make sense to me, since I live and fly in a mountainous area. If I stand on a high place and fly out level, my quadcopter would be more than 400′ above the ground, yet 0′ higher than where I’m standing! Would I be complying with the 400′ rule?

    1. 400′ from the ground. If the ground level changes the 400′ level changes along with it.

  229. I see both sides when it comes to registration. Having been a Ham since 1985 we areh required to pass a test and keep your license current by renewing every 10 years. So I don’t see why everyone is getting up in arms about registration.

    That said I believe registration should be free, just as our Ham licenses are, and they should be good for 10 years just as Ham licenses are.

    When it comes to what number to put on your aircraft I think it’s simple. The FAA assigns you a number and it must be someplace on all of your aircraft. However if you’re a AMA member you would be allowed to use either your AMA or FAA number on the outside of you aircraft for all to see while flying.

    I understand it a PITA but it shouldn’t be hard to accommodate both AMA and non AMA flyers.

  230. I’m tired of government regulations, of being told to get permission/licenses for everything, now to even play with toy airplanes. After all the lobbying by AMA (and others) with corrupt and uninterested FAA officials, it was all wasted effort. And now we all bend over forward for more government control and bureaucracy. Where does it end, or even become reasonable? And renewal every three years? Phoo on that. It was just a hobby. That’s all.

    I’ll see you at the swap meet, or more likely just leave them hanging in the garage. Got too many licenses already. I’ll play with my old cars, O gauge trains, and leave toy plane flying to others. At least I don’t have to license my trains (yet.)

    After 22+ years of AMA and some good flying and camaraderie, I’ll find something else to do.

    Sorry guys, I’m out.

    Phil

  231. Now that model aviation is officially controlled by the FAA, I propose that all established model air fields be shown on aeronautical charts to warn our full sized brothers to avoid the areas. I propose that the airfields themselves have their boundaries marked with a minimum altitude of 1000 feet and have a boundary our ‘buffer’ area surrounding that by 1 nautical mile with a minimum altitude of 500 feet. This will serve to notify the full size aircraft of the location of hazard areas and provide an adequate separation between the 2 dissimilar types of aircraft. This would also provide protection for our hobby in court in case a collision occurs within our protected boundaries. As these areas are normally ‘no fly’ zones for full sized aircraft there would be no burden on the full sized operators and the only requirement for the FAA would be to collect the data and upgrade the charts.

    From Aircraft Spruce; “FAA NOS Sectional aeronautical charts are designed for visual navigation of slow to medium speed aircraft. The topographic information featured consists of the relief and a judicious selection of visual checkpoints used for flight under visual flight rules. The checkpoints include populated places, drainage patterns, roads, railroads, and other distinctive landmarks. The aeronautical information on Sectional Charts includes visual and radio aids to navigation, airports, controlled airspace, restricted areas, obstructions, and related data. (Scale 1 inch = 6.86 nm/1:500,000. 60 x 20 inches folded to 5 x 10 inches.) Revised semi-annually, except most Alaskan charts are revised annually.”

    3. Nice. It should be made official that we have as much right to the airspace as full size pilots have.

  232. I can’t believe this. This is just another example of our government no longer protecting our liberties but wanting to categorize and regulate everything we do. And the established politicians don’t understand why Trump is ahead in the polls? Looks like GPS controlled free flight may be the next thing to work on.

  233. This regulation is in violation of the congressionally passed law. The FAA is in contempt of Congress and should be jailed and an injunction placed on the riduculous rule.

  234. As several have said, this isn’t really that bad, even $5 a year is fine.
    One thing to consider, the FAA is of the opinion that registering your aircraft, full scale or model has always been required. For the last 80 or so years the FAA has chosen not to pursue it for the models. How can blame them, it’s would have been an unwanted expense and hassle. Things have changed!! Now that it has become a problem, they have now chose to require everyone to register. So according to the FAA, they haven’t violated the special rule for model aircraft, they simply have decided to implement their right to have all aircraft register. A right they have had from the beginning of full aircraft registration. At least that is what I believe the FAA thinks.

    1. I’m no lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that failing to enforce a law for 80 years and then suddenly enforcing (discovering?) it violates the “equal protection” clause. In trademark law I believe it’s called “use it or lose it”.

    2. And another thing, since when did the government get “rights”? I thought we the people had rights, and they served at our pleasure.

      The world is freaking up-side-freaking-down.

  235. This is just another way to control people. What next? Amazingly all my models weigh only .45 lbs. Any one need a scale like mine? Come on AMA whose side are you on? Next thing you know we’ll have to include it on our yearly tax return………….People controlling people.

  236. The best response is not to complain online but write your Senator and Congressmen and mention you vote in every single election, The FAA has overstepped its authority and ignored Congress here is an example of the letter I sent yesterday.

    Subject: FAA is violating the Modernization Act of 2012 passed by Congress

    The newly released regulations from the FAA regarding the registration of model aircraft appears to violate the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Senate Bill, Section 607(g) passed by Congress and signed by the President. It appears that Congress intended the FAA to leave the people who fly RC aircraft as a hobby alone. I am a long time member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) and have safely flown my model aircraft at local flying sites for over 40 years. I find the FAA’s flagrant disregard for Congress’s statutory authority in need of a response in the form of the withholding of the funding provided in SEC 336. A failure on Congress’s part to prevent the FAA from overstepping their legal bounds potentially damages the separation of powers provided for in the Constitution. You should act immediately to prevent this violation of the laws of this country.

    1. Bill,

      Excellent idea! I just emailed my three congressional leaders using your letter as a template. If enough of us take this sane, calm, i need your help because I am not being represented approach with our congressional leaders…. maybe our voice as safe areomodelers will be heard. If anything, Congress does not like when their legislation is ignored.

      PLEASE WRITE YOUR CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS NOW! Here is the link: https://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/

      The link will let you quickly find your representatives in both houses and the entire submission will only take you about 10 minutes if you cut and paste your letter into each form. Also click the “I would like a reply” on the form.

      If AMA won’t challenge this in court or with Congress, let rise up and do it ourselves.

    2. Bill, great idea!!!!

      Use Bill’s letter as a template and write your representatives, I just did and it took no time at all. Be courteous and ask them to look into this… and ask them to reply to you. here is where you can find their info:

      https://www.opencongress.org/people/zipcodelookup

      AMA members, let’s ask Congress to stop the FAA from ignoring our US legislators.

      Tom

    3. I sent this to Alabama Governor Rob Bentley, Senator Jeff Sessions, and Senator Richard Shelby and added section 336 so they didn’t have to go looking for it. The only way to get the FAA’s attention is to show how blatant their overreach is. If they can ignore the laws, where does it stop?

      Mark

      Subject: FAA is violating the Modernization Act of 2012 passed by Congress

      The newly released regulations from the FAA regarding the registration of model aircraft appears to violate the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Senate Bill, Section 607(g) passed by Congress and signed by the President. It appears that Congress intended the FAA to leave the people who fly RC aircraft as a hobby alone. I am a long time member of the Academy of Model Aeronautics (AMA) and have safely flown my model aircraft at local flying sites for over 40 years. I find the FAA’s flagrant disregard for Congress’s statutory authority in need of a response in the form of the withholding of the funding provided in SEC 336. A failure on Congress’s part to prevent the FAA from overstepping their legal bounds potentially damages the separation of powers provided for in the Constitution. You should act immediately to prevent this violation of the laws of this country.

      Section 336 of FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012.

      SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
      (a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
      (1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
      (2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community- based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
      (3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
      (4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
      (5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the
      airport)).

      (b) STATUTORY CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the authority of the Administrator to pursue enforcement action against persons operating model aircraft who endanger the safety of the national airspace system.
      (c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
      (1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
      (2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft; and
      (3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

      Sincerely,
      Mark Mullen

    4. Bill, thanks for showing the way. I have written to my three representatives using your template.

  237. There should be NO Harm getting another Number from FAA. Before the new rules, anything if happened to your aircrafts causing damages or injuries or troubles, they already can get you if you are a AMA member and with the AMA no. in your aircraft. This new rules is meant or mainly for and will affect those who are NOT an AMA menbers. Remember they don’t have Insurance Cover too.

    Happy flying, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!

  238. So we have a new rule, that violates a law, that is unenforceable, and does not have a “benefit” other than generating income for a government agency…sigh. I think I’d register if free as I could care less who knows I fly, but being fee-based along with the other factors makes me lean toward saying “Screw the government.”

  239. This rule is crap, pure and simple. Those people who fly irresponsibly will continue to do so and will not register themselves. Does the FAA really think people who buy a “drone” at Walmart will register themselves? And, I agree with many others here, we should NOT simply role over and accept this. Congress gave us an exemption. Who is the FAA to ignore it? Seems the expectation of the AMA “fighting” for our rights is a thing of the past. Perhaps new leadership is needed and soon! Why belong to the AMA when I can register with the FAA for five bucks and fly anywhere I want? Disgusted…

  240. AMA made a decision to include drones as part of their portfolio, and I wonder if the decision to sink thousands of model airplane hobbyist was more financial driven then anything else. I can only imagine that AMA put up a fight not to lump drones with model airplanes, but at the end, AMA is sanctioning drones and the financial benefits from all these thousands of drone users (and growing) joining AMA, could easily have put the cause of model airplane hobby secondary to drones.

  241. AMA should give a discount of $15.00 from the Annual Membership fee for those who registered with FAA.

  242. There are too many people in agriculture, engineering and public safety as well as recreational hobbyists that need the freedom to fly.

    The FAA will have to pry my cold dead hands off my controller!

  243. Almost forgot to mention, anyone, anywhere can put a tag on their “drone” with any number they choose, yours, mine, the guy down the street, whatever. So those who fly irresponsibly will certainly not use their own number or, any at all. This whole thing is so flawed that it has already failed. It brings no benefit to anyone other that the FAA’s budget.

    1. I would protect the registration number you get from the FAA a strongly as you protect your SSN. Any idiot could copy your number and put it on their airframe and then go wild. Since there is no airframe registration, it would be on the accused to prove they didn’t own it and/or weren’t operating it. With so many off the shelf RTF airframes these days and no association of serial numbers to operators, it would be difficult to defend yourself.

  244. So now we are going to have another government agency that we can build a big building for in Washington D.C. Wonder what the agency will be called?

  245. Congress passed a law, that is still on the books and allows us to fly under the rules of the AMA. This FAA implemented registration violates that law. AMA, may we begin the legal class action lawsuit now? I know you want to “play nice” with the FAA and be invited to the table for discussion…. but now that the discussion is over and the FAA has ignored the voice of all model aviation enthusiasts, it is time for legal action!

  246. A similar event happened in the Model Rocketry hobby after 9-11. New restrictions were placed on possessing motors larger than “G”. It put a real crimp in the hobby for about 10 years. Eventually the restrictions were lifted. Now, those restrictions were the result of a single event (9-11), while the issue here is more of an ongoing one. That may make it harder to reduce the new requirements for our hobby. Perhaps, if these new requirements do reduce the careless drone flying that is fueling this issue, there will be an opportunity to make changes for those who are AMA members.

  247. Why is the AMA not taking this to court? I would think a first year law student can handle this. The RULE is in direct violation of federal law.

    The AMA is “disappointed”? Truly a weak response. I am dissappointed. I pay my membership dues to the AMA because I thought that they represent the hobby. Apparently I was wrong.

    If I have to register with FAA and the government is going to regulate my RC aircraft, why do I need to be a AMA member?

  248. Here is a great quote showing us we can all do our part alleviate this nonsense:
    “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” -Margaret Mead, anthropologist (16 Dec 1901-1978)

  249. Anyone that has visited the NATS at Muncie during Free Flight week will notice a couple things, If you are competitive in FF POWER you are probably already breaching a 400 foot altitude limit on a 7 second engine run . Anyone flying FAI power that doesn’t bunt at 400 feet or higher will be to embarrassed to continue the sport in public. Also even Itty Bitty rubber power models and hand-launched gliders will breach 400 ft if they get into a brick-lifter thermal. The only control the pilot has is the Engine shut off timer and the DT mechanism setting “done before launch” So I guess there is no class of AMA aircraft that will be exempt from this “registration process.

  250. You guys are almost missing the cause, there was a pilot somewhere, that saw a Drone close to his/her flight path and complained to the FAA.

    I worked for the FAA for 12 years and can assure you that that there were a whole bunch of taxpayer dollar sucking lazy butts sitting around doing nothing so in order to make it look like they were busy, decided to act on the complaint because they knew there would be little resistance from the public to stop them. This gives them a purpose in life and their high paying jobs. It takes a team of FAA employees to write one letter and another different team to decide if that letter should be actually published, and then another team to publish it before it gets presented to the person that will convey it’s contents. ( I’m sure I missed a few more dozen souls)

    Someone should check and see how many hours of federal time has been spent on this worthless project. That expense could have been better used in a effort to catch individuals posing a danger to aircraft or persons. Instead now there will be more government jobs, more taxpayer dollars wasted in the future to justify high paying petty jobs.

    A $5 registration fee is just the tip of the ice burg. When you sign up you are in the system and game for future harassment from our government who thinks it can control the world. You are now a registered Drone/UAS pilot, at 14 yrs old.

    Can anyone give me a list of all these near crashes that have occurred.
    If coming close counts arrest me for r–e, I have all the tools and pass close by women on the street every day. Just think, every time you meet a car on a 2-lane road you come within a couple of feet of a head on. Do you think this is a little blown out of proportion? Odds of a major accident are higher than getting struck with lightning. Use the taxpayer money to catch the non AMA members causing the problem.

    Simply put the FAA (largest branch of the government)would like to find other things to meddle in to give the thousands of employees that are sitting on their tush something to do.

    1. This has already been put in print. This new model airplane safety feature will be costing US tax payers a lot more than $5. Just for FAA administration and overseeing this office says it expects to be spending almost $50 MILLION to start it up and over $300 MILLION once under way…

      1. And unless they capture drone serial numbers at the point of purchase, this is ALL wasted taxpayer money!

  252. This has NOTHING to do with safety! This is about regulating the 400 foot airspace that we currently operate in. Amazon and other companies that are working on their drone delivery service want that space and our presence creates a problem for them. If you notice, the FAA welcomes us as “aviators.”

    From the FAA’s press release – “Make no mistake: unmanned aircraft enthusiast are aviators, and with that title comes a great deal of responsibility,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “Registration gives us an opportunity to work with these users to operate their unmanned aircraft safely. I’m excited to welcome these new aviators into the culture of safety and responsibility that defines American innovation.”

    The $5 registration fee is meaningless (That’s why it is “free” if you register within the first 30 days!). What comes next are similar FAA requirements for pilot physicals and aircraft inspections. Eventually, only companies like Amazon will be able to comply and our hobby will be extinct!!!

  253. I HOPE THIS LAW FOR EVERYBODY REGISTERS MODEL PLANES AND DRONES, NOT JUST FOR THE LAW ABIDING AMERICAN CITIZEN.
    FOREIGNERS CAN RIDE ELECTRIC BIKES, DIREGUARD TO ALL TRAFFIC LAWS AND HAVE GUNS.
    AMERICANS GET HARRASED RIDING ELECTRIC BIKES, RIDING WITH THE LAWS, WE CANT HAVE GUNS. WE PAY OBAMA CARE PENALTIES BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE MEDICAL INSURANCE BUT THE ILLEGAL IMERGRANT CAN HAVE FREE MEDICAL INSURANCE. ARE THESE LAWS ONLY FOR THE LAW ABIDING CITIZAN OR WILL THEY BE INFORCED FOR ALL?
    LAWS ARE MADE FOR THIS GOVERNMENT TO MAKE MONEY.

  254. I think we have been sold out by AMA and I will not renew. In fact, I will probably get out of the hobby. This is another classic example of government overreach and AMA greed. You should never have embraced the drone culture to start with. When Bob Brown made the statement that drones were the future of model aviation, I knew we were in trouble.

    Mike Griffin

  255. For the AMA, how is this new requirement going to affect the AMA rules and guidelines? Will the insurance provided by the AMA for valid members be revoked if the member has opted to not register with the FAA? I see no benefit in registering myself or my planes with the FAA nor do I see any benefit in resolving any problems caused by irresponsible flyers. If there is a serious incident between a drone, plane or other RC device with a full size plane, there will be little to no evidence left after the collision and how will the investigators prove that the person operating the device at the time of the incident was in fact the person it is registered to? I choose to stand by SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT. Good luck everyone, pretty soon this won’t be a hobby anymore, it will be an act of civil disobedience performed by a bunch of law breaking renegades. Tea anyone??

  256. People who fly close to passenger airplanes and break all the laws are NOT AMA REGISTERED.
    I will not hesitate to show my AMA card to law enforcement agencies along with the rules and regulations printed in the AMA magazines
    I would not rule out these people that fly and break all laws and rules are educated in the model aviation world. They are not be informed by many hobbies shops or other retailers.
    Retailers are selling just to make money when they inform customer’s fees for AMA, NO SALE. Customers can still buy drones and model airplanes. Customers should have to show AMA card before purchase. NO AMA CARD, NO PURCHASE.
    In today time of terrorists we have to be aware who are using these models and for what purpose. I am a strong believer of stop and search I never protested living in New York I don’t feel safe since we don’t have the law any longer.
    FLY SAFE FOLLOW THE LAWS EVERYONES HAPPY

  257. So, you increased the dues, then allowed yourselves too be neutered by the faa. Well done.

    How are y’all going to split the 30 pieces of silver?

  258. Here is a thought, register every person that you know has passed away on their website and flood it so it crashes.

  259. So a ten year-old gets an AR-15 for Christmas and has to do nothing? But give the child a model airplane and he has to register with the Feds? AMA has grossly exaggerated their clout, using this as an excuse to raise their dues. AMA is nothing more than an unregulated insurance company with a magazine. AMA has repeatedly told their members “sit tight, we’ve got this”. Screw the AMA…publish your budget so we can see where our money is being spent. Sorry I fell for the two-year deal on membership. You guys grossly failed your paying members and I hope the fall-out cripples your organization.

    1. The AMA and FAA should have defined a drone vs a fixed wing aircraft and separated them. The fixed wing model should have been exempt as it already is, under FEDERAL LAW 112 95 section 336 Then at the point of sale for the drone, the seller/Store could have been required to show the proposed FAA DRONE registration.
      No that was too easy, just makes all models including control line, a Drone.
      IDIOCY AT ITS WORST. I WONDER WHAT THE CREDENTIALS ARE FOR AN FAA JOB. COMMON SENSE? EVIDENTLY NOT.
      I have tried several times to find out from the AMA what they are doing, without luck. Are they working with our federal elected officials? I called my senators and congressman they knew nothing about the FAA requirement. I Live in Indiana, where the AMA headquarters are located!
      I also read the FAA proposal in its entirety and it specifically states that registration is only open to US citizens. What happens to our international guys that come to Muncie to compete?
      COME ON AMA LET US KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO STOP THIS MADNESS. GET OUT ANOTHER EMAIL TO ALL ADVISING WHAT YOUR PLAN OF ATTACK IS.
      I firmly believe that unless this issue is resolved to the members satisfaction, the days of the AMA are numbered.
      There are many avenues of attack the AMA could pursue but most of their responses appear telling us to go along with this and register. What the heck am I paying membership dues for? a lousy magazine? Not going to happen!

    2. I would like to urge everyone to continue to support the AMA. They are doing their best to represent us but they were unfortunately blindsided by the FAA. All we can do is regroup and push on.

      Much of the world is moving on with development of commercial drones (UAS’s) but the FAA is having trouble figuring out how to deal with them. Their solution seems to be to delay development and use in this country as much as possible. We are feeling the fallout of this policy in spades. Not only are they going after the quadcopters/multicopters that initiated the problem, they are going after anything that flies and is controlled from the ground.

      To deal with the problem, I suggest that people support the AMA in their efforts and contact their representatives in Congress.

      Sincerely,
      Don Adams

  260. Registration is just the tip of the iceberg. How long until we are required to keep logs showing when we flew and to keep these logs for 3 years and open to government inspection whenever they want? How long until we have to have a registration number before we can purchase an aircraft kit? How long until we have a knock at the door wanting to see if we have our number tattooed on our aircraft? How long until a tax is levied on each and every aircraft? How long until we have to register each aircraft we own? When do they stop our FF activities because we cannot control the aircraft? This may sound ludicrous now but who would have thought we would have to register our aircraft just for enjoyable flying.

    Write your Congressman to express your sentiments.

    Last but not least. None of this fiasco is the fault of the AMA and it is unfair to blame them for the heavy handedness of the FAA. Having been involved with other government entities such as the EPA the input by AMA was totally disregarded and the FAA had their mind made up before they asked for comments. The bottom line is just more government intrusion in our daily lives. Place the blame where it belongs, not with the AMA. I will continue my AMA membership.

  261. Some food for thought.

    It may well be the “safety” that is being considered by the FAA is homeland security and the registration of operators is a means to generate a database of community participants that qualify as “good guys”. The database would be useful in an investigation of incidents where a “bad guy” decided to use or is planning to use, one of our toy planes to deliver a biological or explosive package to a populated place. This is an attractive and inexpensive plan if you wanted to live to do it a second time.

    Remember drones are an integral part of our military tactics and strategy; our president made the point that “you are next” to our enemies. This is the definition of terror. There is no reason that our technology could be used for this purpose.

    Like it or not remote controlled aircraft have reached the status of “assault weapons”.

    Some one has been considering this for a while – look at the ruling concerning VIP TFR restrictions on models.

    I for one will take a deep breath, swallow hard, and comply with the registration. Other than a minor inconvenience it will not change anything I currently do in the hobby or my life in general. I already appear on enough government databases one more will not make a difference.

    1. I highly agree with your comments, except the fact is ,we the people, are losing our liberties by allowing this crap to happen. Look at B.S. Patriot act they devised to kill our own privacy for what is none of their business but they make it theirs now. This is just another gain for new world order and we lose more of what is suppose to be for our Constitution.

  262. Another idea: The AMA could buy each of our aircraft for 1 cent with four provisos (1) we can buy it back at any time for 1 cent by just letting them knowing (2) the AMA cannot Re-sell it without our permission, (3) each of the sellers is responsible for any liability created by the plane and (4) Each of agrees to put our name and address on or inside the plane (meeting the spirit of the FAA rule).

    Then the AMA would Register as “the Owner” for all the planes owned by all members for $5 in total.

    1. Peter, I really got a kick out of your “out of the box” thinking. thanks for posting this.

  263. Are you going to do something useful with our dues money and take legal steps to stop this?

  264. Welcome to the world National Rifle Association members have been subject to since the 60’s! Our aircraft have become the new ‘assault rifles’ in the government’s and medias’ head. The NRA is aggressive with government bureaucracy and puts forth a robust campaign for public opinion. The big hammer is that NRA has millions of members & they vote! I would suggest our AMA leadership get in touch with NRA leadership and shorten the learning curve on how to more effectively deal with rampant bureaucracy. We cannot afford to compromise at any level; any compromise is a net loss for our hobby.

  265. Has there been any specification from the Feds on the size requirement of the displayed registration number? Can I put it on a micro dot?

  267. I have been a full sized aircraft pilot for years. I have been dealing with the FAA all of this time. It’s no wonder that the FAA’s unofficial moto is FAA: were not happy until you’re not happy.

  268. When I got into this hobby I was told get an Ama membership that I needed it to fly if I was asked for it. So I paid my dues and was about to get a lifetime membership when I had this crazy idea to wait one year and see how the Ama handles the faa on this issue. The older members kept telling me the Ama had clout and would never allow the faa to step on our hobby. The Ama news letters I was sent basically said they were working with the faa very close. The Ama had no input on anything at that meeting if they even went. They just said they did. The meeting was closed to the public. Sorry ama your revelance is over, why do I need an Ama registration when all have have to show now is the faa registration? Either way I will not be getting the lifetime membership and or any other membership from you again. Even if you sue it is to late. Registration is 5 dollars for now but do not forget dot will be enforcing their own registration fee. Oh and please stop sending me magazines and emails asking for renewal your not getting it!

  269. Apparently the major dues increase was not enough to influence legislation AND keep the FAA and DOT out of our business and off our backs. I don’t want to sound venomous but I’m beginning to see a snake disguised as the AMA.

  270. We need leadership in the AMA. THE MEMBERS ARE SPEAKING LOUDLY, PLEASE LISTEN AND TAKE ACTION,

      1. Don’t bet on that as the current administration for the last 7 years has used the Constitution for toilet paper! Our little Kenyan emperor has already threatened to use his pen and phone if Congress will not vote the way he wants on his first step toward getting rid of the Second Amendment.

  272. So FAA says “We expect hundreds of thousands of model unmanned aircraft will be purchased this holiday season,” said FAA Administrator Huerta. “Registration gives us the opportunity to educate these new airspace users before they fly…”. I’ve seen dozen of people coming to the field after Christmas just to toss their newly acquired model aircraft ad crash. After a few “I don’t need your help, I know what I’m doing” attempts, stuff ends up in the trashcan and people drive away disappointed. So, will FAA introduce and mandate some online training and test for new owners, as a registration requirement, or their wording is just a “cover up” story?

  273. “AMAs reaction to new FAA Rules” is disappointment? What exactly do you guys do??

  274. So my options here are $225 for 3 years of AMA dues, or $5 for a 3 year FAA registration while the only lobby this hobby has simply rolls over and does nothing for the hobby as a whole?

    Since you only mention exempting AMA members from registration while leaving non-AMA hobbyists to deal with this silly regulation on their own, I have to assume the AMA has no desire to support the best interests of the hobby as a whole.

    1. Agree with you Mike. AMA is not needed anymore….we pay the $5 for three years and go fly. What about illegal aliens (12 million)..not required to register. And the fact that the government cannot keep anyones credit number secure irks me to no end.
      why should I give them that chance to screw me another way. Unbelievable!

    2. I thought the same thing when I read about the ruling last night. Why do I need the AMA? I joined the AMA for them to lobby on my behalf, not roll over and “Take It”. Now that the Government has required me to register anyways then the AMA is totally not needed. I see the AMA membership numbers declining in the very near future.

      1. Understand that we believe the registration process is an necessary burden and we will continue to reduce the burden from our members.

        In addition to this issue, there are many other rights we have protected recently. For example, without the AMA turbine jets would be grounded, AMA pilots could not fly over 400′ devastating the sailplane community, giant scale aircraft would not be permitted to fly, many flying fields near airports would be forced to close, communities in OH and NY would have grounded all model aircraft.

        Like you we are disappointed in the registration process, but know this is not over.

        1. Chad, I left a message on your voice mail asking if you or any other members of the committee had contacted our Indiana Federal officials, no response at all.
          I DID contact all of our Indiana federal officials and they were NOT aware of the new FAA requirements. I asked them all to go back and review FEDERAL LAW 112 95 section 336. I also requested that they reign in the FAA right now and rap their knuckles for ignoring a Federal law. i BREAK THE FAA RULE AND AM SUBJECT TO A 27000 DOLLAR FINE. THE FAA IGNORES A FEDERAL LAW AND NO ONE CHALLENGES IT.
          GET WITH IT GUYS OR RING THE DEATH KNELL FOR THE AMA,wHY THE HE..WOULD I PAY AMA DUES IF THE CONTROLLING BODY IS GOING TO BE THE FAA. i GUESS $1.67 IS LOT BETTER THAN $75 PER YEAR. AMA LETS THIS GET THROUGH THEN I DON’T NEED THE AMA
          SO WHAT HAVE you guys done? I have asked the question three times and NOTHING in the wa yof an answer or plan of attack. Pitiful

          1. I am sorry I haven’t responded. In addition to hundreds of emails, I still have over 120 phone calls to return, I’m sure yours is on the list.

            We will be announcing specific details very soon. We needed a couple days to have legal counsel review the 211 page document and staff to evaluation our options.

  275. This is one of the worst over-reaches of federal regulations I have seen. Second only to Obama’s executive orders. Note that there actually is NO registration for models over 55 lbs. It implies they can be registered using the paper application but when you go to the page to do so it states model airplanes aren’t required to be “paper registered.” THEN, when you go to the recommend FAA safety guidelines for UAS it states: DO NOT FLY MODELS OVER 55 lbs. And you can’t fly your model on your private property unless you have registered with the FAA. We’re screwed if Congress allows this to happen.

  276. I think you’ll find this will the most important comment made so far here. Think about what the FAA is doing. They are asking you to obtain a registration number. This registration mumber is to be used on all your model aircraft. But in aviation law the same registration number is never used on more than one aircraft. Each aircraft has it’s own unique registration number same as the licence plate on your car.

    So what this so called registration number is in fact is a model aircraft pilots licence number issued to an individual pilot. That’s what this in fact is.

    Think about it. If somebody arrived at the model field who didn’t know how to fly. You could just write your licence number on their plane and you’d be legal to fly it. But the model aircraft is in fact not your property. You could have some stickers made up with your licence number and fly anybodys plane, then remove your sticker once you finished flying it.

    Therefore, this is a model aircraft pilots licence. Probably there is more to come regarding standards for the issuance of this licence.

    For example let’s say your a person who is marginally able to fly a model airplane safely because of age related degenerative eye disease or other factors. You may find you licence to fly model aircraft revoked because of that.

    And BTW I have seen a lot of that type of thing a model airplane clubs. People flying large lethal model aircraft’s who are unsafe to the extent that you can’t turn your back on them while they are flying. Or a young child flying a lethal model aircraft around people.

    And there is currently nothing you can do to stop this. If individual is on the board of the club and if you complain they’ll tell you your no longer welcome and kick you out of the club.

  277. I thought that the registration was suppose to be only for quadcopters. Why is it now for everything that flies? I just got into the hobby and haven’t even taken my plane out yet. Just joined the AMA with a trial membership and was going to go with the full yearly membership next month. The AMA caved in big time. They need to tell the FAA that this registration should be for ONLY quadcopters. Those are the idiots that started this mess.

  278. There are three responses to this issue:
    1)Resignation – no big deal $1.67 a year, would be nice to use our AMA number, but it is not egregious I can live with it. (I am concerned about if AMA leadership is in this group)
    2) This sucks I quit, selling my, equipment, finding something else to do
    3) This is egregious and I need to do something, civil disobedience, litigation, protest of some sort, contact my representative. Basically push back somehow.

    It is still mostly a free country and we all get to choose where we are. As for me I am in the third group, I feel I need to push back because I find it egregious on several levels not the least being an apparent violation of law by the FAA.
    The course of action is clear for the first two groups, either comply or quit. Appropriate Action for those of us in group 3 is not as clear. This is were we need leadership from AMA, first if AMA is going to push back, how do we affectively do that, and how can the membership help. If AMA leadership does not feel that pushing back is neither appropriate and/or useful, those of us in group 3 need to know that. AMA leadership – are we in group 3 on an island in our desire to push back?

  279. The FAA is doing what they were directed to do by the Congressional Transportation and Infrastructure committee. If you want to really scare yourself, go to CSPAN, Search Drones and watch the Oct 7th hearing on drone safety. You will see our elected idiots (particularly Mr. Peter DeFazio of Oregon) tell the DOT and FAA to do something fast. This minor inconvenience of registering is nothing compared to some of the stupid stuff that DeFazio wanted. Our hobby had a voice there that may have kept the FAA from more drastic requirements. The AMA pointed out the inaccuracies of the 100s of pilot reported “drone sightings.” The AMA continues to tell the safety record of our members. We need this representation.

  280. How dare they try to sneak this rule in right before Xmas, when everyone who is not able to represent the people because their on holiday vacation so they know they can sneak this new rule in the system underneath everyone’s eyes and before the new year. I impose nothing should be made rule or law until after the new year when all the highly positioned lawyers etc. Are back from vacation and can fight for what little freedoms we have left in this horrible new world order we’re forced to have to live in. We are not free in new any way, this country is more communist than we even know it is. This is how they do it folks, no one in their right common sense mind knows that any rule should be made during this time of the year. What a scam this is. Put this off till after the new year for Christmas sakes. Sneaky bastards, I can’t stand the way this government works. We are just meaningless souls to them. It’s We THE People NOT U THE Government, You Work For US AND We SHOUld Take Over Cuz You Are OUT Of Your DAMN MINDS ANYMore. Yes I’m outraged about a small hobby even being owned not by us anymore.

  281. What’s happening reminds me of what was written and predicted in the following books:

    Aldous Huxley – ” Brave New World ” ( 1932 )

    George Orwell – ” Animal Farm ” ( 1945 )

    George Orwell – ” 1984 ” ( 1949 )

    The authors were correct !

  282. the hobby that i have enjoyed since i was a small child is now doomed,just glad that i have other interesting hobbies to fill the gap.

  283. Since when does the FAA have authority over Congress? According to the FAA MRA, our RC aircraft, provided are flown in accordance to set guidelines, will be Exempt from ANY further regulations. Sorry, but the FAA is acting illegally in this matter. I can guarantee you no LEO will ever want to waste his time driving to an RC field to see if every pilot has a registration number. they have more important things to do.

    To TOP it all off, This registration crap puts the US further into debt as it will be a negative income vs cost to maintain, just like everything else the government does. The ACA itself for 2016 is already $600 Billion in the hole.

    Don’t be sheep, “it’s only $1.67” people. Fight this, it is wholly wrong and the AMA has FAILED us! Just look at their canned response to our questions here. No mention of fighting it, they resigned to it! We as AMA members have the power to vote them all out, so sounds like it is time to clear the AMA house! Let your voice be heard on the next ballots they send out!

  284. Maybe the AMA should register each member and pay the fee every time it is due. After all they did just raise their membership fee.

  285. If you are serious about taking legal action(and you should be)then maybe the AMA should contact the ACLU and prepare to spend some of our money to try to stop this from becoming law. Once it is in place it will be much harder to cancel or even modify.

  286. I support the action that 185,000 AMA members do not register during the grace period, after all it is 5 bucks after the grace period.

    I also propose, that since the FAA wants the registration number and has separated itself from AMA and AMA’s voice, that AMA sanctioned events and fields do not mandate this registration process or mandates the presence of the FAA number. We should continue to carry our information and AMA# in our models but wait to see what really happens with FAA registration of UAs. This makes it between FAA and 185,000 individuals and their voices and not 1 AMA voice. After all, if I get caught without the number, then the fine is from FAA not AMA.

    I hope this makes sense, I just hate to see AMA support and mandate our registration with the FAA to be members, if we are over the age of 13.

  287. Well, can the AMA give me a yes or no as to whether they are going to fight this illegal move on the part of the FAA? This seems to be in contradiction to previous legislation action.

  288. After reading the FAA rules defining a sUAS as well as their posted Q&As, it’s clear that they’ve adopted a very general definition for a sUAS. It doesn’t matter if the sUAS is tethered or untethered, fixed wing or multirotor, powered or unpowered. All that matters is that the sUAS fits within their weight limits and it’s operated in the NAS.

    To put things into perspective, a 9 ounce kite qualifies as a tethered sUAS. Therefore, starting in 2016 no one can legally fly a kite weighing 9 ounces or more in America without registering the kite with the FAA first.

    Maybe the AMA can orchestrate a kite fly-n with 100 thousand illegal tethered unpowered sUASs over the White House.

  289. I have only one question that I need an answer on.

    Since DOT and FAA have now made this “law”, will the AMA
    force us to comply to continue to be an AMA member?

    The reason this is important is that I belong to TWO AMA
    sanctioned clubs that require AMA membership. If I do not
    register as a sUAS Pilot, what happens to my extended 3
    year AMA membership? Is it voided? I still need a valid AMA
    membership to fly at my clubs (which I have just paid for).

    AMA needs to make this clear to it’s members.

    Will the AMA REQUIRE an FAA License (registration) to have
    a Valid AMA Membership?

    DID the FAA / DOT just force me to make a choice?

  290. The $5 “fee” is a tax in my book that is only going to go up constantly. This tax was not voted on by Congress. From page 34 of the rules, the FAA view about regulating small UAS “As discussed in this document, the FAA would continue to exercise enforcement discretion for aircraft that weigh less than 0.55 pounds, such as paper airplanes that are not linked to a system.” Yes not only do they want to regulate toy aircraft they want to regulate paper airplanes.

  292. What about huvercraft? Also called ground affect machines. Do I have to do it for them also? Thay fly. How about all the kite flying people? If a baseball player hits a fly Ball ,is he to be fined? This all should be looked into.

  293. I will propose that all suicide vests be incorporated in this rule. Parts could fly over 400 ft and weigh more than .55lbs. Think they will comply with their name and address on the jacket.

  294. As the Arabs say, this is the camel’s nose under the tent! Want to bet how long it will be before that $5 fee becomes a lot more, and that simple registration requirement becomes a lot more burdensome? This is par for the course for government … It illustrates sheer laziness on the part of the FAA and DOT. They have had years to come up with meaningful regulations and this is the best those geniuses could come up with? Give me a break. This has absolutely nothing to do with public safety because it will not address the problem we need a solution to. It IS further Government intrusion into our private lives, and once started it gets worse over time. It’s a power grab, plain and simple. Thank you Mr. Obama. Thank you Democrats. Thank you you da&n Republicans. (I’m Republican)

    So, AMA, what are you going to do about this? Are you going to represent us or are you complicit in it?

    1. Yes we are representing you. We believe this registration process is unnecessary and is in violation against Section 336.

      On one hand we are working to create exemptions with the FAA. We have had victories already.

      We are working aggressively with the media to publicly express the flaws in the process.

      We are also exploring our legal options.

      2. Chad,
        Thank you for this update, it is appreciated. I ask that AMA *PLEASE* keep it’s member base updated on what you are doing regarding this. If there is no regularly updated communication from AMA, then most members will assume that nothing is being done, and it will only fuel the negativity that is very apparent in this blog.

        I, for one, am very frustrated with this entire situation, and the over-reach of the FAA to sweep all model aircraft into this broad definition. The way I read it, a heavy stunt kite would need it’s operator to be registered.

        Since this is obviously in direct opposition to Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, and the FAA has no jurisdiction to make law, I, for one, will NOT be registering with the FAA for any of my model aircraft, and I ask that the AMA also NOT share my protected AMA information with the FAA without my written permission.

        We are all waiting to see how this is going to play out, and just how effective the AMA will be at challenging the FAA ruling. I will continue my AMA membership for now, but if the AMA is not successful in challenging this, then I will not be renewing my AMA membership, and I will not be registering with the FAA. I will continue to fly my planes, helis, and multi-rotors on my own property in peace.

        With all due respect,
        Brian Meyer
        Michigan

      3. Thank you, Chad. This is more of what we need … transparency from the AMA so the membership feels it is being well represented. Where is that published? We need less “we are disappointed” letters and more “we are taking the following action” communications. A LOT more. Your average AMA member has no clue how the legislative process works and how long things take although a few in this blog are exceptions. Educate us!

        I am a marketing professional. Your BRAND and with it your BUSINESS is at stake here. Watch out or you will have mass defections from members and we will have NO voice. For me … I happily paid my two years knowing this will be a long process. You have my email; feel free to contact me directly.

  295. This comes as no surprise to me. I often wondered when the FAA would impose its rules on RC aircraft. While Im deeply disappointed in the AMA’s “go along to get along” position with the FAA, Im hoping (and praying) that someone at the AMA will grow a pair and file an injuction against the FAA. The FAA being an erragant over reactive bully will not stop me from flying my RC planes. Whats next? FAA inspections on our aircraft?
    Doug Greer
    AMA 233582

  296. I will not happy if official charge, or fee. FAA rules to AMA doesn’t make sense but few sense for safety or protect. I though freedom rc flying and fpv much fun to broken into creepy slave to FAA rules. Normal thought that rc fly stay in fly field club and right place away 5 miles airport safety and no aircraft traffic in sky alike far away. 500 feet altitude is limit ok. mid-size model airplane did fly loop over 600 feet should not blame. I have no see trouble for 30 years fly field at all. I angry that person who bad idea treat to full aircraft. One who stupid fly over landing airline to ruin our country and freedom.
    I would not affordable in high charge or fee. What about paper airplane?

  297. This ruling is only a starting point, not the end of the process. Many of the regulations we all work under every day began with an action such as this and were either tweaked, repealed, or struck down with a court case. We just need to keep our composure and let our votes at the polls and the letters that we write to our Senators and Congressman do their work. A sample letter will no doubt be forthcoming from AMA.

    I have been a part time lobbyist traveling to Washington D.C. as needed since 1998. I can tell you from that experience that you seldom get what you asked for, the way you wanted or needed it in the form of useful legislation. The real process comes after that in finding a way to get the regulator to enforce the rule in a way that everyone can live with.

    If you are not already checking the records to see how your Congressmen and Senators are voting…..get engaged and start tracking their votes. You may be surprised to find that your government officials are not voting the way you thought they were. No one can hire or fire them but us. If you don’t like what’s going on, pay more attention to how you vote. It is the responsibility of all of us to stay informed, protect our freedom by taking that responsibility seriously, and vote in every election whether it is local or national. If we do not do this……others beliefs will surely be imposed upon the rest of us and if that happens it is our own fault.

    I will register, and in the meantime I will lend my full support to the AMA as they work for us to make this work for both sides either through amended regs or court action.

  298. My understanding when all this talk about “DRONES”, was that these new rules are for those people who own quad copters with video cameras not rc airplanes.

    1. No, that is not the case. This new ruling says it is for any unmanned aircraft being controlled remotely, weighing between .55 and 55 lbs. It is still unclear, but it looks like it would even cover control-line aircraft and their operators.

  299. This is like gun control, punish the law abiding citizen and in no way inhibit criminals. Just inforce the laws that already exists! – Terrible. Where was AMA when I was at the TAAC conference last week representing modelers? FAA bureaucrats are drunk with power.

  300. No need for a exemption with the FAA, Congress passed a law that the agency is violating.

  301. Welcome to Nazi Germany circa 1933. Congress, duly elected by the people has a Constitutional obligation to pass laws based on the Constitution. After Congress passes laws, another un-elected, lawless agency under this lawless administration says “screw you” and with their “pens and phones” violate those legally passed laws and do as they please. With so many little lawless tyrants running the show in Washington today why do we even bother to hold elections for members of Congress? It looks to me like we may as well declare our little experiment in Democracy over, fire all 535 members of Congress and their staff, save the taxpayer several hundred million or ever several billion dollars and resign ourselves to being just another little banana republic run by little two bit tyrant dictator.

  302. FYI, I like to know or try to figure out “why”. So, for the moment and for discussion sake I’ll try to put on the FAA hat in pursuit of the reasoning to justify registration. So, try and suspend your outrage for a moment and consider…

    Since 9/11 the air system was modified to include TFRs, including pop-up TFRs. TFRs are Temporary Flight Restrictions declaring no fly in certain regions of the airspace. Reasons for these include: sporting events, and the transportation of elected officials such as Air Force One. If you are an FAA licensed pilot or an AMA member, you will have gotten alerts about TFRs informing you not to fly your airplanes, models, UAS, or drone in this air space while the TFR is in place.

    If you are not an FAA licensed pilot or an AMA member, how will you know whether a pop up TFR has occurred over your favorite flying site? TFR’s are in essence “air space with imaginary fences” in the sky which you are not to cross or enter. You can only “see” these fences/spaces with your mind’s eye, provided you are cognizant of them.

    It’s probably fair to state that there are millions of sUAS fliers who don’t know what a TFR is or how a UAS can interfere with TFR rules. Therefore, they bust the TFR with their “toys” and Air Force One has to deploy chaff or take evasive action when one is detected too close for comfort.

    IF all these toy fliers are registered, they can be notified before a TFR is issued, to separate the responsible from the irresponsible, in the hopes of reducing TFR incursions to that of only bonafide threats or irresponsible/beligerant pilots.

    Possibly, this is one aspect of the drive toward registration for you to consider and perhaps temper your anger.

    For the record, I’m NOT happy with the registration requirement or the included tax/fee for airspace rental. I’ve been a modeler since the 60’s. But, as a Licensed pilot, I’m already registered with the FAA and the AMA and receive the TFR alerts before they are in effect.

    But, I’m not 17 yr old Johnny with a new drone I got for Christmas. And, the hobby shop or on-line seller isn’t going to inform Johnny about any Pop-up TFRs, even if Johnny did have the notion to comply with a TFR.

    With pressure from the politicos, the media, and the government agencies (that determine your budget) to do something about the “drone threat” and preserving TFR effectiveness, what would you do?

    When under this FAA hat, is registration better or worse that a total ban on sUASs?

  304. I made some comments earlier that ,as I look back at them now sound childish. we can debate all the problems we have in this country and it would take decades and generations to fix them.we as ama members need to be the ones that everybody else looks to when these situations arise. the faa will be busy enough with the non-members .hopefully we can use our ama numbers as our registration.

  305. I started modeling under the Plymouth modeling in the 1940s in the 50s and the 60s Ernie Hubblyr started building the spelling of his name may be wrong but that is not important he and other modelers put cameras in plains and had ground receivers to watch the flights they also had a flight control cockpit i have most of the planes so does AMA we the mo9delers have more rights to them than the FAA 0R THE FCC. THE FAA MADE A RULING IN THE THIRTIES THAT WE HAVE 10 PERCENT OF ALL AIRPORTS IN THIS COUNTRY TO FLY i agree to not flying rc’s there to grt more aviation minded people into the field.

  306. Bottom line, all this FAA, AMA, Law enforcement has taken the wind out of my sails a bit. Maybe my love for aviation, or rather the freedom to exercise it, has run it’s course. Once again, the oversight of a government organization, and the AMA’s attempts at having a meaningful voice in this fight failing, has drained the fun out of it. In a nutshell, I fly for fun. If I have to jump thru AMA hoops, FAA hoops, future sanctions’ hoops, the fun might not be worth the sell out. I’m saddened by this whole thing and blame the terrorist bastards who have done this to us, the honest man, worldwide, who participates in this hobby for fun. Congratulations you terrorist pigs! You’ve won yet again and there goes another freedom Americans used to enjoy. Isn’t it about time our government does what so many Americans wish in they’re heart of hearts, assassinate any and all of these terrorists and bomb the shit out of any captive lands they hold. Instill fear in they’re heart of hearts. So much fear that they become an insignificant blip on the screen. Just do it already!

  307. They forgot something!
    “FREE FLIGHT” !!!!

    How many Millions of Dollars did this brilliant idea cost?

    1. My first unhappy thoughts after reading the new rule;

      What moderation?

      It is my feeling that the hobby will be decimated by its own technology.

      I do not have a good felling about the outcome of this ruling. Once Federal Regulation starts, it never becomes less.

      I could foresee that a Federal License would be required to own or fly a model airplane.

      1. Hear Hear! My thoughts exactly. At what point does the preparation become so burdensome that the fun at the end is diminished or even dissolved by it. Regulation is next, then limits for certain parties because they pose more risk(ex cons, third world immigrants, politically outspoken, etc.)
        Then finally an official application process, licensing requirements, costly exam, license, insurance fees and premiums. Where does it end? For a sensible red blooded American, dropping the hobby and moving on to something more constructive and less intrusive bound.
        AMA, organize and implement proper recourse by way of class action or organizational representation against a blatant ignorance of congressional law making by a stand alone, supposed to be law and policy implementing agency who doesn’t have a right to ignore congressional standings. C’mon, I pay my dues as well as hundreds of thousands of other modelers nation and worldwide. Don’t tell me the task force there at AMA, already getting paid to focus on this exact issue, and the lawyers you have employed or retained haven’t thought about this. If you stand idle now, chances are you all will be job hunting in five to ten years when the government and your inaction decimate the hobby completely.
        Just saying.

    2. Pretty sure free flight aircraft are included. UAV means unmanned aircraft…. not uncontrolled aircraft. That’ll be their answer I bet

  308. I don’t like another law and rule to follow but the world and technology is changing fast and we do need to keep people in the air and on the ground safe somehow. If this step makes people who will never join AMA understand the seriousness of flying an aircraft then maybe its good. I want my family to be as safe as possible the next time they take a flight somewhere. You could look at it like the government is taking our hobby seriously and broader safety rules might actually preserve what we love to do.

    1. “You could look at it like the government is taking our hobby seriously and broader safety rules might actually preserve what we love to do.”

      I have no problem with registration for commercial drones, that industry expects it. The FAA could have handled this in a less draconian way while still affording ample safety to air travelers and bystanders. It is unrealistic to believe that those intent on using drones illegally are going to register them, the net result is that only modelers and law abiding citizens will be in the database. A nation wide emphasis on prosecuting those who fly outside the current AMA guidelines of higher than 400′ agl and within restricted airspace would be far more effective. As a commercial pilot, I keep up on all of the latest aviation related news, green laser pointers have been by far a greater threat to aviation safety than recreational aero modeling.

    2. Problem comes when someone buys a UAV for their own fun without any intent or knowledge of the AMA and its rules. A lot of these people are buying them to fly at parks or other open areas (ends of airport runways). The people that fly at AMA chartered clubs are already flying by strict rules to keep people safe

      1. “Problem comes when someone buys a UAV for their own fun without any intent or knowledge of the AMA and its rules.”

        So does that mean that if a drone operator registers, they are exempt from the AMA guidelines and can fly higher than 400′ AGL? As far as flying off the end of a runway, they need to face a stiff fine and some jail time in exchange for their stupidity.

  309. After looking over some of the relevant law, it looks like the FAA is within its mandate by requiring registration. The way it’s being implemented and promoted however is disturbing. The touted benefits are 1.cost savings for the FAA 2.education and 3.enforecement. I don’t believe registration will have much impact on either of the last 2. Also the whole premise of a web-based registration system costing millions of dollars to maintain is ludicrous. I share concern with others about stolen/misused ID numbers. I also doubt local law enforcement will want much to do with this, they are too busy as it is. I do believe the AMA has some damage control to do with their membership, mostly due to a lack of clear communication. It was not within their power to prevent this, however. As a final note, I think the 250 gram low-cutoff is an order of magnitude too low – I’ved had hand-tossed toy gliders weigh more. Current rant over 🙂

    1. “The FAA’s claim that complying with notice and comment requirements for small drone registration regulation is ‘impracticable and contrary to the public interest,’ so that it can therefore ignore them, is as predictable as it is absurd,” CEI transportation policy expert Marc Scribner said in a statement. “In issuing this unlawful interim final rule, [Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx] and [FAA Administrator Michael Huerta] are practically demanding litigation.” – “The Hill” 12-14-2015

    2. If the AMA agrees that the FAA is within its mandate to require registration. It would have been simple enough to have stated as much. As evidenced by the comments here and elsewhere, many are wondering why the AMA isn’t taking formal action. If nothing can be done legally, just say so and satisfy your members that you did all you could do.

    3. I agree, not only will local law enforcement not want to deal with it. I suspect they will not be versed in all the particulars of the law and just go in and shut people down because if they are operating a UAS they must be breaking the law. Also I foresee expensive models being confiscated and damaged or lost.

  310. I am very disappointed and angry and both the FAA and the AMA for the following reasons. First of all the anger towards the FAA is obvious as all of us are feeling that knife dug deep into our backs by the FAA and the greedy, controlling, knee jerk reaction by such an incompetent organization. Unfortunately I truly did anticipate this ridiculous attack at our responsible members that have flown a fixed wing aircraft, and helicopter for decades. But as a previous union board member in my career, the fight to make things fair and right would not be considered to be over by any stretch of the imagination. We as members are not to blame for this decision by the government to control our freedom to fly what we all have loved for such a longtime, and have done so very responsibly. Secondly, as you may guess my anger is also towards the AMA for it’s quick decision to tuck it’s tail between it’s legs and cower away, allowing this insane decision to go on and effect us all. It is your job as a representative and voice of the members and this hobby to fight this out until there is a fair resolve. I was truly angered by the fact that I did not hear at the end of the AMA letter that petitions, lawsuits or anything else that AMA needs to do to impact and repair the damage that the FAA has done so far to our hobby was going to occur. We all fly in this hobby because it is fun, and the feeling and freedom of flying is one that we all cherish when we are at our flying fields, but now with the additional governmental rules and controls to monitor everything we do in our lives is extremely frustrating and maddening to say the least. The fact that the FAA has taken the shotgun approach to dealing with this matter is beyond ridiculous, as stated before, we the law abiding and responsible members are not to blame for the minority of morons out there flying drones irresponsibly and dangerously. If this is not fought vigorously by the AMA and they take the “Lay Down and Take It” approach to all this, I am truly contemplating the end of my continuation in this hobby. Remember we are a country that has always fought for our freedoms, ask our military veterans who gave us those freedoms? It’s time for the AMA and our members to also fight for our freedom to fly without governmental control, were not harming anyone and we are not a threat to our national security.

  311. How can we be sure that our registration numbers will be secure and others will not have access to them and use them on other aircraft we have no control over ??

  312. I spoke with one of my neighbors, who works as an NTSB investigator, and it is his understanding that the DOT, NTSB, or FAA is looking into opening a position for an investigator to look into and enforce sUAS/UAS registration and misconduct. If this is true it tells me that the FAA had no intention of working with anyone at all and was dead set on doing things however they felt like. It further tells me that this is only the beginning of a larger plan to control or even eliminate the hobby of model aviation all together. If the AMA doesn’t get on the stick and go balls to the wall with litigation against the FAA and it’s illegal use of power, the government czars will win and we will lose our beloved hobby!

  313. This site popped up today online, the FAA site has no link to registration. The fee is $24.99 and I am not sure if this is “the site” or a site designed to look like the site and gather credit card numbers and personal information.

    EDIT: site link has been removed, it is not a fraudulent site.

  314. What will happen if someone steals your FAA number and places it on a Quad, “Drone”, that they crash into a full scale aircraft? Since people will be required to post their FAA number in a visible place, it will be easy for someone to copy this, particularly at shows were a lot of spectators show up. How will the person be able to prove that the offending craft wasn’t theirs?

  315. I think that the multi-rotors being able to be flown without any training has enabled people that are uneducated about the do’s & don’ts of the hobby (as it relates to the law) to be able to take to the air with no regard to safety or surroundings. Which seems to be a main driving factor behind this whole mess.

    FPV flight is a violation of the law in the first place because you are required to have line of sight at all times and there is no way to have clear line of sight if you are staring at a monitor or wearing FPV goggles. All the videos being posted showing people operating the FPV aircraft in a manor & an area that is obviously illegal is (in my opinion) a large driving factor behind all the current problems. But the sad truth is that the problem people will not register & will continue fly in a dangerous & illegal manor.

    There are already laws on the books placing restrictions on how an R/C airplane is to be operated, but there is a serious lack of enforcement. As is always the case (in recent history with the government), instead of enforcing the laws that are already on the books they want to create new laws that only serve to place more burden on the citizens that attempt to do things correctly simply because there will still be no enforcement on the ones that either choose not to follow the laws or just flat don’t know the laws exist. All we really need is enforcement of the current laws, but they are almost unenforceable because you have to catch them in the act. Although, some of them should be easy to find because they are plastering the evidence all over the internet with their name attached. You would think that if the FAA were this worried about the actual transgressions then they would be jumping all over an easy target that supplied the evidence for them. Kind of makes you wonder.

    Just my thoughts, for what it’s worth……
    Dave

  316. I have been ignoring the news reports on this because I thought AMA members would be exempt. After all, this is what we have been hearing for years. I definitely see this as a deterrent to people getting started in flying model aircraft and a decline to the hobby. What is going to happen when we are flying are we going to be harassed by law enforcement and have to submit identification and have our models inspected? Once this goes into affect what will come next? Rules on times you can fly, types of models acceptable, who is eligible to fly, etc. I never saw a model plane bring down a building or shoot 14 people but the government is doing nothing to regulate that!

  317. I don’t think I have seen any email from AMA notifying us that this is going into affect now and where to go to register.

  318. How about this for a rule. Only have this rule for the people that have UAVS that can be flown without line of sight. Don’t have this rule for us guys that still fly our aircraft by line of sight.

  319. To illustrate the absurdity of this “Interim Rule”, an ultralight ( manned ) aircraft does not require a registration number ( FAR 103.7c ) but now your 10oz RC model does.

    1. Probably because the pilot of a 103.7c aircraft has a vested interest in operating safely that is orders of magnitude different than the pilot of a sUAS. If the pilot of a 103.7c aircraft crashes, he stands a good chance of serious injury or death. If the pilot of a sUAS crashes, write a check and buy another.

  320. AMA, Why did you remove the question about the 400 ft restriction and its effect on sailplane-soaring? What is the answer? Are sailplanes, jets, pattern planes, etc. confined to 400 ft? What is the FAA’s position on that? Their website implies yes. Please do not delete this vital question. Please an official AMA answer.

    1. Hi Jack, we were not aware the question was removed. If so, it was not intentional.

      We successfully advocated to protect member’s rights to fly over 400 feet. The FAA cites the 400 feet ceiling limit for the general modeling community. AMA members under Sec 336 are exempt from this rule and can fly over 400 feet.

      1. Section 336 says >= 55lbs etc. requires CBO. Unless AMA has paper signed by FAA designating them as a CBO, they can’t approve such operations.

  321. Seriously AMA… clearly this is a violation on two points.

    1. This is a clear violation of the mandate by congress in the special rule for exemption of recreational flyers.

    2. This is a clear violation of public law… such that the FAA violated the public comment period that requires at least 30 to 60 days of public comment before any regulation is enacted.

    Clearly there are two violations from the FAA… yet AMA just seems to roll over every time. We are your constituents and by looking through all the comments posted here you are clearly not representing the community. There are clear violations of law that should be pursued by legal action with a temporary injunction. I should not have to read that another organization is threatening to file a law suit on these two grounds…. That should be coming from the AMA!

  322. What it eventually looks like the FAA and others want to do is steam-roll over the AMA and eliminate it altogether.

  323. Today’s mail brought a letter indicating AMA has “partnered with Nationwise” to save us insurance money.
    Why did AMA spend time and effort on that instead of protecting us from the FAA? I do not think you are spending my money wisely.
    Exactly what do you think you are suppose to be doing for us?

  324. All I know is that we never had any issues until all those irresponsible done pilots came along.

  325. I suggest that everyone should contact Senator James Inhofe, R-OK.

    Senator Inhofe wrote the bill that exempts hobbyists from FAA regulation.

    Here is the link to Senator Inhofe’s website contact info.

    https://www.inhofe.senate.gov/contact

    By politely letting Senator Inhofe know(he might not be aware of what the FAA has just “proclaimed”) that unelected bureaucrats led by a political hack….aka Michael Huerta(FAA Administrator)….have essentially “flipped the bird” at Senator Inhofe’s legislation. And I don’t think Senator Inhofe would appreciate that.

    If enough people contact Senator Inhofe via the above contact info(there are a wide variety of ways to do so), politely implying that FAA Huerta just “thumbed his nose” at the waiver that Senator Inhofe helped to establish, perhaps Senator Inhofe can do something about this.

    For the sake of our hobby, please take the time to send Senator Inhofe an email, etc. to inform him of what FAA Huerta thinks of Senator Inhofe’s legislation.

    Just keep mentioning that the unelected Huerta is usurping the legislation that Senator Inhofe had written into Federal Law….making the unelected Huerta as the bad guy(which he is)…and that Senator Inhofe is the only person we can turn to.

    If 100,000+ emails are sent to Senator Inhofe, we WILL get his attention.

    Feel free to contact him and his office as many times as you possibly can.

    Just remember, be polite to Senator Inhofe……but feel free to politely “slam” that unelected political hack named Michael Huerta(FAA Administrator).

  326. Anyone think the AMA does not want to fight this any longer because the cost is to high and they might lose to much of there free money ? Look at it like this… If I have a mishap with one my big birds and hit a car at the field… how do I pay for this… Not with my AMA… I must turn it into my home owners first.. Why.. Is AMA worried about there pockets also? (if I have to go to home owners first… Why do I need AMA)

  327. Guys,

    HOLD THE BITCH SESSION … THE AMA HAS MADE A SUGGESTION NOT TO REGISTER …

    “As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA’s legal deadline for registering existing model aircraft.

    Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.”

    READ FULL POST AT:
    https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2015/12/17/hold-off-on-registering-model-aircraft/

  328. Why are senators Charles ( Chuck ) Schumer and Dianne Feinstein not coming forward into the open about their great accomplishment ?

  329. As Gary just mentioned, I have also received the email from the AMA that says to hold off registering your aircraft.

    The AMA email I received was “signed” by the entire AMA Executive Council.

    Via this thread, I think the AMA heard us “loud and clear”.

    And that’s a good thing.

    But…..

    Please send emails to Senator James Inhofe(R-OK)…whether you are among his constituents or not. Support his efforts for supporting our hobby…and castigate the unelected bureaucrats and that political hack Huerta(FAA Administrator) for Huerta and the FAA’s “thumbing their noses” at Senator Inhofe’s legislation….that is Federal Law….for the FAA’s malicious and capricious encroachment into our hobby is clearly unconstitutional.

    Politics in DC is a dirty business, and I feel the AMA Executive Council should take off the “kid gloves” and get “down and dirty”.

    The AMA, for decades, has a community presence in all 50 states…and even our territories.

    If the AMA members…..150,000+ strong….spread over 50 states…via our AMA leaders…made it known…to DC….diplomatically…that……

    The AMA membership will work to “endorse” political candidates that support us…and at the same time will work to defeat any and all political candidates that want to regulate us and “extort” our hard earned money….whether local, state, or federal candidates.

    While our rights to develop model aviation are not specifically mentioned in the Bill of Rights such as in the 2nd Amendment, the AMA should adopt fighting the unelected FAA bureaucrats using the tactics of the NRA.

    Our hobby and passion for our hobby is at stake….

    With the AMA’s STEM program, the promotion of food drives by most AMA sanctioned clubs for many years……not to mention that RC is a multi-billion dollar industry…DC bureaucrats still don’t get the message.

    By contacting Senator Inhofe…whether you reside in OK or not…we all can make our views clear.

    You can’t fight the FAA….we need to enlist the help Senator Inhofe to represent our interests….and if he helps, he should be given an AMA life membership, etc….if not, well it’s time for him to “retire”.

    That’s how the DC game is played….it stinks…but that’s the way it is.

    Politicians don’t disregard 150,000+ voters in all 50 states.

    The AMA membership can wield a big political stick in DC.

    I realize that the AMA has avoided politics prior to this.

    But now, given the FAA’s total disregard to the federal laws of our land, our hobby’s existence is now in jeopardy.

    The AMA leadership must draw a “line in the sand”…..to combat these feckless, unelected bureaucrats from destroying a multi-billion dollar industry…..employing 1000’s of people…..and destroying the education of our youth…and our efforts to provide food for those that have encountered hard times.

    If any of “youse guys” know Trump…lol….invite him to your field….give him a flight….”schmooze” him.

    Trump will use this to demonstrate the fecklessness of these unelected bureaucrats that are destroying our nation….not a Trump endorsement, just that he makes the news….

    When we….the AMA members….are encouraged to send emails to the FAA…it should be clear to us now….that the FAA doesn’t give a “two sh1ts” about what we do.

    And they will stomp on us like one would do with a cockroach….and will not even consider what they have done.

    If you have the time, please contact Sen. Inhofe….again explaining to his office that the FAA….with that hack Huertas consent….has ignored the legislation that Inhofe introduced in order to prevent these violations of our model aviation “civil” liberties.

    FWIW

  330. PRETTY SOON, YOU ARE GOING TO NEED A TAG ON YOUR BACK GPS LINKED TO WALK ON A SIDEWALK, AND IF YOU DONT, YOU WILL BE COMITTING A FEDERAL CRIME, THATS SMELLS LIKE COMUNISM TO ME. SOON IF YOU CARRY A STICK WITH A NAIL ON ONE END, ITS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION, THIS IS BULLCRAP!!!!! SOON YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO REGISTER YOUR DNA LINKED TO YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, JUST TO EXIST LEGALLY IN THE US, THE MARK OF THE BEAST!!!!!

  331. Balboa Rc park in Van Nuys Ca is 1.4 miles from the 25th most busist arports in the world in 2009. It has a final approch of 200 ft agl 1/4 mile from the rc park! Guess this park will close now after decades of no issues with the airport becuase of money being gained in government or private entity wants to monopliez the industry. Its about greed, not saftey. If so.. more laws would be on the books to protect us from ourselves.

  332. Well, if the FAA is going to call my model aircraft an airplane under their control and regulations, then I want to know if they will investigate all “model aircraft” crashes ?? Will they convene a board to determine fault and place blame for the accident?? Will they back me or any owner of a damaged aircraft whose crash was not the owners fault when and if I sue for damages to replace my aircraft???? Will they provide a written report of accident investigation concerning each and every crash and accident of which there are plenty in this hobby ????? Bill

    1. Bill,
      You better hope they don’t do sUAS investigations. The historical trend in findings typically end with “pilot error” as cause. The cure for which is more mandatory pilot training, if you want to keep your pilot’s license? Don’t have a license? Then expect more regulation to ensure you have one before your next solo flight.
      On the other hand, perhaps it was a mechanical failure as determined cause. Was the plane built and maintained and inspected by FAA licensed mechanics? Had it passed it’s last mandated annual and preflight inspections? (The pilot is responsible for ensuring that the aircraft is airworthy before flight.) Was the craft made with all FAA approved components and assembled according to a manufacturer’s type certificate?
      You can bet the FAA will never be to blame for incidents. The findings are always someone outside the FAA at fault and in need of more regulatory adherence.

      When your fleet of models has enough supporting paper documents on file equal to the weight of the craft(s), then you might be allowed to depart from terra firma. But, only at an approved location and in approved airspace.

  333. People who don’t know the difference between a propeller and wing, let alone the dynamics of how aircraft fly, should not be in the business of flying us off a cliff.

  334. I see a lot of references to Advisory Circular 91-57A. As any private pilot should know, FAA Advisory Circulars are just that: “Advisory”. They are not regulatory.

    And if anyone actually READS AC91-57a (before their eyes glaze over) to paragraph 6.e:

    “e. Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).”

    Notice the word, “should”.

    Also notice that: “(5) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the model aircraft provides the airport operator or the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.”

    …does not suggest that permission be asked, or given, by ATC. Only prior notification is needed.

    Unfortunately, one Mark Krisher of the Associated Press recently (Dec 15) published an article in my local newspaper stating, “The FAA prohibits drones and model airplanes from flying higher than 400 feet or within 5 miles of an airport”.

    This misinformation just serves to stir up the clueless into calling law enforcement, who must then waste resources to “investigate” using (and hopefully understanding) the 14 pages of “LAW ENFORCEMENT GUIDANCE FOR SUSPECTED UNAUTHORIZED UAS OPERATIONS” …guidelines conveniently sent to them by the FAA:
    http://www.faa.gov/uas/regulations_policies/media/FAA_UAS-PO_LEA_Guidance.pdf

  335. The FAA would have better benefited our cause by taking the following approach for aircraft over a certain weight limit ( say over 1-pound ( 0.45-kilogram ) ):

    1 – REQUIRE AMA membership / registration in order to fly

    2 – REQUIRE various AMA aviation knowledge and safety requirements

    3 – Passing various AMA knowledge and safety requirements so as to get endorsement to fly

    4 – REQUIRE a check of AMA knowledge and safety requirements ever 2-years so as to continue endorsement to fly.

    Anyone who ignores the above requirements would not be eligible to partake to the skies. If caught flying without the above requirements then penalties will be levied by law enforcement.

    1. Are you going for a free AMA Membership or what ? You cannot force people to join the AMA to be able to fly R/C Aircraft, shame on you for suggesting such a thing.

      1. What do you think the FAA is doing ? The SAME thing – forcing registration. Why shame on me ( ? ) – the FAA started the whole thing. It should be shame on them !

  336. I am frustrated. However, after taking few days to cool off, several things occurred to me:

    (1) The AMA has a long history of keeping involved in government regulation, and gradually smoothing off the rough edges in our favor. IMO they will continue to do so here. They’re being faced with public hysteria, and govt officials determined to “do something.” Over time the steady influence of the AMA WILL PREVAIL in or favor, as it always has. The govt overreaction is a sprint taking place in the middle of a marathon. The AMA is the consummate marathoner. I oppose legal action by us modelers for that reason; for now.

    (2) Back in the old days, when we all first learned to fly (maybe older for me, than you guys ), it was hard to fly. Really hard. The equipment was expensive, much more so than today. You couldn’t walk in to your local big box and just grab something off the shelf, you had to go to your local hobby shop, where you likely dealt with a knowledgeable enthusiast. Then you went to a local flying field to get some experienced advice and help learning to fly. Just the process educated you enough to know not only what the rules were, but that there were were, in fact, rules! These days, somebody can walk out of a Best Buy, charge some batteries, and be flying a potentially dangerous piece of equipment, at a height where it can truly hurt someone – yet basically know nothing at all about flying, or the rules of airspace. Hopefully, the act of registration will help people who wouldn’t otherwise think at all, at least think about the potential of what they have purchased. Registration isn’t about terrorists or criminal activity – it’s about the MUCH MUCH LARGER pool of blithely ignorant buyers who, but for the simple act of registering and going to the Know Before You Fly website, would just throw that thing up to 400ft without giving it a second thought. Now they will.

    Mick

    1. Mick, you are wrong. I’m sad to see you try and justify this thing.

      All that would be needed to accomplish what you said and more, would not require a registration or money.

      All they would have to do is require that all R/C Aircraft need to have the owners Name, Address, and phone number on or inside the aircraft.

      That’s it ! No database, no money. Instead, just a number is required, which then requires a database to track that number, money to maintain the database, and all the corruption that goes with that.

      Shame on you for your inability to think on your own.

      1. Adam – instead of criticizing this and that; do you have anything constructive to say or add ? Just wondering … ???

  337. From a lot of the comments so far, it looks like the AMA stands to lose thousands of members if they let the FAA get by with this without taking them to court. I know it will cost a lot to fight the FAA but the AMA needs to do it. They have told us in the past that they have already filed an action in Federal Court but we’re holding it in abeyance until they found out what the FAA was going to do. Well now they know. It’s time to activate the lawsuit, or if it was wasn’t ever filed, it’s time to file it. We have a Federal statute that says the FAA cannot regulate us, so the law should be on our side. Even if we have to register now, we should still fight it in court to get the requirement lifted in the future, because I can guarantee you that this is just the beginning. If the FAA gets away with this, the requirements will get tougher and tougher and the fees will get higher in the future.
    If the AMA won’t take the FAA to court now, we need to vote out the current AMA leadership next election and vote in some leaders who will act, or we need to start a new organization that will act.

    1. I agree totally, I am in communication with my senators and congressmen and they have NOT been contacted by the AMA. In working with Rep, Stutzmans office. They wanted to know who to contact at the AMA !!!! Heck I live in Indiana where the AMA is based and they haven’t enlisted the help of their Indiana Federal officials? What on earth is wrong with this picture?
      Rep Stutzman’s office have now read 112-95 and the section 336 and agree that the FAA is ignoring the law of the land.
      If this is the best we can expect from the the AMA, perhaps we roll over and let the FAA rule us. initially they only want $5 for three years. a little different than the almost $100 annual AMA dues. I was encouraged to get as many people to object as possible.
      Just watched the video episode 4 and was extremely disappointed with the Chad and Rich Hansen, wanting us to keep waiting and watching. I DON’T AGREE! Contact all the senators and congressmen we can in every state! Thats how we need to proceed!
      I have provided my AMA club members the phone and email contacts for their Federal officials and a letter they can use to express their disgust at the new FAA interim rule. I hope that you will all do the same,l If the AMA wont do it, we can!

  338. Why do I pay my AMA fees if there does not seem to be anybody in this organization that seems to care for our rights?
    So, my 10 years old one grabs his pocket money and goes into a hobby store or the Walmart toy department, buys a $30 drone, let’s it fly and I am a felon? Whoever came up with this registration idea should be unemployed tomorrow (the latest). This is one of the most idiotic regulations Obama and his crew came up with – heck, even the healthcare thing had some sense to it.

    If the AMA wants to continue to collect my membership fees, somebody better gets his behind in action…

  339. We brought this on ourselves. Bureaucrats are pretty much incapable of creative thought. Once the “Model Aircraft” exemption was in the law, we probably should have left it alone. By “working” with the bureaucrats on the regulations with no real leverage, it became a power play and they just had to show these silly AMA types who was boss. The only way to stop this is to elect politicians that will appoint better bureaucrats or don’t give them any ideas to use against you. The second we told them what we wanted protected was the second they added it to the list of things to take away.

  340. Due to health issues I haven’t flown in over 2 years but when the AMA came up with the idea to raise dues but you could renew then for 2 years at the current rate I took advantage of the offer. Now I won’t be flying anything cause I am not registering with the FAA.They say if you have flown a suas prior to whenever you must register, well what if I haven’t flown in years? Just cause I still own my planes does not mean I use them so how are they gonna prove it if they don’t catch you red handed.Overall a stupid,unenforceable rule again by our government and lest I leave out being rear ended by the AMA thank’s for nothing.I called AMA headquarters on three occasions when I received my monthly magazine complaining about them accepting advertising for FPV systems saying this would be the end result and suggesting that they distance themselves from the whole drone industry. Well here we are guys.The AMA is just as guilty as the FAA in this, due to their greed.I guess I’ll go fishing they already got my money for boat registration and fishing license fees.

  341. I belong to a very small club in Libby Montana. The field is located in the mountains and is one of the best fields I have ever flown at. Knowing the members(28) and being that a portion had a hard time just being required to join AMA what do you think registering with the FAA will do? I personally won’t register and their for will have to drop out. It comes to a point when that line has to be layed down. Civil disobedience can’t be ruled out!

    PS Don’t you think this government has more important issues to solve?
    Wayne

  342. Not an AMA member. And unfortunately, everything that the AMA has “done” for people interested in flying “real” sUAS (25 to 55 lb, fixed wing, FPV, semi-autonomous) has convinced me that there really is no reason for me to join the AMA. The class of ‘big boys toys’ I want to fly, they won’t defend. The type of ‘big boys toys’ that I want to fly, their fields won’t allow. So, why should I join the AMA and support them for what they won’t do?

    It is amazing how few understand that very few individuals working in the oxygen deprived atmosphere of the FAA’s offices actually have a pilots license for any other than a desk. Even fewer of them have ever flown R/C.

  343. The AMA has said nothing about revoking our insurance if we fail to register with the FAA. The landowner’s only mandate is that each HTF member have AMA insurance coverage. The landowner is immune to prosecution by the FAA. Also, I do not believe the FAA could successfully prosecute a fine against an AMA member flying legally at an approved AMA site simply for failing to register with the FAA – and without your credit card on file they likely can’t enforce any fines – what can they do? Is the Federal Government going to take me to court for failing to register myself as an RC pilot? They can’t keep up with illegal immigrants and tax abusers – I hardly think our citizenship would tolerate expensive random ‘registration enforcement.’ I see no legal rational why AMA clubs should insist on compliance with this new FAA ‘TAX’ as a requirement to utilize the site to fly radio controlled aircraft. As AMA members we are already conducting our RC activities responsibly. As long as there exists a separation between the AMA insurance requirement and the FAA registration I believe this is a good opportunity to practice civil disobedience. $5 is nothing. Don’t let the bureaucrats suck you into another never-ending and likely increasing TAX before this argument is final.

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