Hold Off On Registering

We also suggest you read Frequently Asked Questions about the Drone Registration Process

On Wednesday, December 16 the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of pilots who fly model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UASa) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.

AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA’s safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress’ intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft.”

The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA’s petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA’s interpretation of the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft.” The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.

In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA’s reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court’s immediate attention to AMA’s petition.

While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations. Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA’s members strive to be a part of the solution.

As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA’s legal deadline for registering.

Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.

In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA’s interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.

Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.

Kind regards,
The AMA Executive Council
Bob Brown, AMA President
Gary Fitch, AMA Executive Vice President
Andy Argenio, AMA Vice President, District I
Eric Williams, AMA Vice President, District II
Mark Radcliff, AMA Vice President, District III
Jay Marsh, AMA Vice President, District IV
Kris Dixon, AMA Vice President, District V
Randy Cameron, AMA Vice President, District VI
Tim Jesky, AMA Vice President, District VII
Mark Johnston, AMA Vice President, District VIII
Jim Tiller, AMA Vice President, District IX
Lawrence Tougas, AMA Vice President, District X
Chuck Bower, AMA Vice President, District XI

Frequently Asked Questions about the Drone Registration Process

641 comments

    1. Thank you.

      I renewed yesterday in support of AMA.

      Very few things we do are as wholesome as flying a model airplane.

      Hopefully good common sense will prevail, quickly.

      Dave Patrick AMA 112836

      1. Dream on, Dave! No disrespect, I wish you were right about the common sense. We have all been tagged by the FAA as AIRCRAFT OWNERS and are now subject to the same Title 14 Part 47 of the Code of Federal Regulagions AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS that full scale aircraft owners have to comply with. They have the same 3-year $5.00 registration fee requirement. But wait, there’s more, lots more! For example, we will have to notify the FAA of any change of address within 30 days. Here’s the real rub that everyone including the AMA has missed – you have to be a U.S. Citizen or have legal Permanent Resident alien status to register an aircraft. Maybe there is a method to their madness?!?

        1. John P, that reference you made to “. . . U.S. Citizen or have legal Permanent Resident alien status to register . . .”, makes me feel a lot safer. That will surely stop any illegal aliens with malicious intent of terrorism from flying/using an UAS to achieve their goal.

          1. Even if that goal is just to fly his helicopter at the local field..such as the case of an H1B visa holder..

          2. Not to dampen the humor of your message at all, but I just want to point out that a lot of the potential damage from drones is not necessarily due to terrorism.

            Yellowstone (and presumably other areas) are having trouble with pollution from people crashing drones into geysers, and they can’t really get them out because, well, super hot water. Also, airspace is getting more and more crowded, and now they’re trying to sell drones to follow people around skiing/snowboarding? Mountains get crowded.

            I don’t really mind the traditional RC flying I was brought up with – i.e.; don’t cause other people harm – but I feel like a lot of clueless people are getting UAVs and blissfully ignorant of the (potential/actual) damage they are doing

          3. That’s right Sonny! We all know that that $5.00 registration fee, placing your “number” on all your aircraft, and only flying within the confines of approved FAA Airspace will prevent ANYONE from using any radio controlled aircraft (I REFUSE TO CALL THEM DRONES!) from doing anything stupid, illegal or terroristic… I’m SO HAPPY that our government is SO INTELLIGENT when it comes to stopping crime and terror… You know, like the way you can’t buy an AR15 in California… WOW! Think of how many people’s lives have been saved because of THAT Regulation!

          4. No it won’t stop anyone from doing anything. Not registering in no way prevents an individual from flying a drone or whatever model aircraft.

            Model aircraft have been flying in our skies since I was a child and no one yet that I am aware of has done anything malicious with them like attaching a bomb and really there’s been nothing stopping anyone from doing so if they chose to and not being able to register with the FAA because you are an illegal alien won’t stop them either.

            Why is it that you think someone with the intent to break the law would not do so because a law is preventing them from registering as a pilot?

          5. Steve B, Damage to sulfur spitting geysers or the environment? Are you kidding? Nothing in a Quad is going to harm the environment like what a Geyser already spits out all by itself.

          6. Oh I don’t know about that, QuadcopterPilot. I think it’s less about protecting against terrorism than protecting against stupidity. Plenty of people have done downright retarded things with their drones. Look at the teenager who gained notoriety for strapping a handgun to a drone and later came back with a flamethrower-equipped drone that he used to light a turkey on fire (in a wooded area, no less). It is acts like this, and ones like flying around wildfires, airports, people and stadiums, that has caused the FAA to come down on us. The 1/10th of 1% are ruining it for the rest of us.

            Personally, registering doesn’t really bother me. The only reason I haven’t yet is because I think it’s wrong to make the database public. If my son’s drone flies out of range and ends up drifting into someone’s tree, I don’t want them over-reacting (because of the media coverage of the more ridiculous drone activities) and showing up at our front door when my kids are playing in front of the street. There have been some colossal over-reactions to completely innocent drone flights out there….

          7. Remember that famous quote that reads – “If Guns become Illegal – Only Criminals will have Guns!” (or something along that line).
            The exact same thing goes for RC Aircraft. Only the CRIMINALS will have Drones….

          8. Steve B: Just a clarification that US National Parks do not permit Quadcopter operation without obtaining special permission. They can already enforce their rules without the need of FAA registration of AMA hobbyists.

          9. P3PPilot
            I disagree. Registration is NOT fine. It will NOT stop these blithering idiots from flaming turkeys with quad copters or doing other foolish thing – AT ALL. There are already other laws that apply to those dangerous actions. There is NO NEED to apply uneccessary and ineffecgtive(!) government intrusion into our free time!

        2. The “citizen or legal permanent resident alien status” is from ICAO conventions; it’s a treaty thing.

          1. Correct! It’s all about Treaties, Contacts, UCC-1 Uniform commercial Law (Vacatan)& the U.S. vs U.S.A. ( Citizen of the U.S. corporation or Citizen (American National) of the U.S.A.
            If the rule, regulation, statue ….etc is not posted in the Federal Registrar and the FAA does not have a OMB # to practice business in one of the 50 states or All, There is no jurisdiction! hello. We are American Nationals in the USA and deemed enemies of their state hence the U.S. It is a foreign Sovereign entity as the Town of London in England and the Vatican in the area of Italy. Their all legal fictions
            with very clever NWO picked criminals upholding there agendas
            to own, control and exterminate any and all in its way. See
            Georgia Guide Stone R.C. Christian (Code for the Rosecrutions).
            Just background of 20 years of research. but see for yourself. Don’t believe me. Read, investigate, debunk the debunk and always be a student. If wrong say so and correct.

            It’s all about jurisdiction, FAA is trying yo claim jurisdiction all though they have none. The creator owns the sky, not man has the right over another man, unless treat, agreement by contract is mutually reached without prejudice, co-hersement, or duress.
            The government are our servants and must by oath act in We the People of the United States of America best interest.

            The goal in this case is to get the Sheep to sign-up free (contract) not knowing of the ultimate solution. The heads of all the Alphabet Agencies are given orders (agendas to follow to slowly lure us into the trap of their Matrix by
            deceit. (free to join the first year, now next year collect revenue the next, severely penalize you if you don’t submit to the game, next year make you have a class 2 or 3 physical more revenue for others to spread the web of deceit and more penalties, limit what anyone can fly and so on. Charge for every class/ size of plane you fly…

            I believe the AMA has done an excellent job to help with lawful concerns, We as members have a vital interest in shaping, protecting & controlling our hobbies future for now and future generations of R/C flyers. Obviously safety is number one, but we must not be railroaded and enslaved any more.
            Let all support AMA more than ever right now or loose the right to our be loved hobby forever. Right your senate congressmen etc and remind these people that they took an oath to be our servants. If they don’t have an oath the the USA they are imposter’s and must be removed.

            TJH

            P.S. The little white house FPV incident was a pre-planned event to spark this action of control. 911 fraud see John Lear you tube son of Bil Lear Lear Inc. antigravty (1953) and Learjet Manfacture.

        3. Hah! I’m just an old backwoods, backwards dummy. But my contention is that the AMA dragged us into this mess. Their glee in embracing the multi-rotor phenom brought these advanced toy/machines into modeler’s midst and gave them the shelter they have NO right to expect from us, the membership.
          Go out and query the man on the street. Ask them what these new “drones” look like. Don’t worry about pencil and paper to keep track of how many describe a craft with fixed wings and single or double propellers for motivation. You will have plenty of fingers to keep track of such – even if you’re one-handed. The queried are going to describe a machine with 4 or more rotors and a camera on board. A machine capable of hovering about their residence for aims less than honorable. And while most of those you ask will never have heard of the AMA (unless it’s the American Medical Assoc), they’d likely to be quick to expect Unca Sam to shake them into line. No lawyer lingo from me – just common sense – such a RARE commodity these days.
          Look at all the glossy ads for multi-rotors in Model Aviation. I assume there’s rags out there devoted to personal drones – I don’t know ’cause I haven’t cared to look. Wonder how many ads there are for model airplanes in those publications? OR, maybe such publications are full of ads for ARFs – in which case I’m simply full of something.
          Of course, the cat has well cleared the bag already. All WE get to do is reap the benefits. That and revel in our newfound recognition by a ponderous and insensitive federal arm that moves quickly to cover it’s posterior when one of these toys inadvertently (or intentionally) causes loss of life or worse. To the best of my knowledge, there’s no Academy of Drone Aeronautics for the FAA to take to task and clamp down even further on, so one can assume we’re it.

          1. Ya.. The ama is negligent in opposing real drones and now is negligent in the classification of my MODEL AIRPLANE.. THEY have litterally sold us down the river without a paddle and screwed up a once exciting and interesting hobby.

          2. Love your post. Right on the money.

            I hate these drone multi rotor noisy crickets. It takes allt he fun out of the traditional flying hobby we have all enjoyed for decades.

            You needed skills to read the plans. Cut the balsa wood, build one section at time, cover and fly it with a pride.

            Now any Joe can buy these noisy crickets off ebay with a radio for $100 dollars.

            Freaking people have killed this specialized fun hobby altogether.

          3. My feelings exactly, just like I’ve said a few times on here since all this started. The multirotors (so called Drones) and the untrained uneducated operators that can now buy them at any shopping mall, flea market, or Wal-Mart are the root of the whole problem, but WE are the ones that will catch hell about it. They will continue to not register with any organization or follow any rules or laws. So, I say again & again, what we really need is not more rules & laws, we need enforcement of the laws we have!!!! As always, our government chooses to make more meaningless laws that they will still not enforce rather than just stepping up and dealing with enforcing the ones they already have. And by the way, there will still be no enforcement as far as I can see. The FBI will not be sitting around waiting to see if an RC aircraft is tagged & the ones that are flown into no fly zones will not be by registered pilots anyway.

            OK Rant Over……getting down from my soap box now……

          4. As a member of the quadcopter community, I have to chime in. I am not the “average” pilot of these 4 propeller unmanned vehicles. I am a Science teacher who thought it would be a great engineering project for my students. I ended up doing months of research about the parts, the art and science of flying, the traditions and customs, etc. By the time I built mine and got flying, I felt that I was qualified to do so and knew the general best practices.
            I understand your frustration at the explosion of these quadcopters onto the market. I also share that frustration in the sense that MANY of these things are sold to people whose only research involved asking the guy at the store if he had to charge it. I understand that.
            Given your years of experience flying fixed wing aircraft, I am sure you feel like your hobby (lifestyle, even) has been hijacked. To make things worse, your hobby is being unwittingly blamed and saddled with consequences for what some young kids with gopro cameras are doing.
            That sucks. I just wanted to share that not all quadcopter pilots are dangerous dolts. Merry Christmas!

          5. You guys seriously sound like a bunch of Outdated / Behind the Times / Biased “Old Geezers”! Remember the outcry when Cell Phones were introduced? And then those new fangled “COMPUTER Gizmos”!?? We’re in the midst of a “Tech Revolution” – (Warning! The Nano Revolution is NEXT!).
            Instead of complaining about these new (and very useful) “INVENTIONS”, just EMBRACE IT! Figure out how YOU can use this technolgy to IMPROVE our lives. Check out what I’M doing with “DRONES” at http://www.sardrones.org (just one example).

            “BE BRILLIANT!”

          6. I’m sorry. Your example of the rise of cellphones is a ridiculous one. HOW would the use of a cellphone affect me personally? I carry one every day – and use it responsibly. When I do use it, no one but those within earshot are gonna be bothered at all. Of course, if you DO want proof of a cellphone’s danger – consider all the road deaths and lifetime cripplings caused by cellphone-distracted drivers.

            These quadcopters – “models” of no aircraft I know of – are branding ALL model planes with the “Drone” stigma. Something the general public never wondered about until the AMA – in their “wisdom” – decided that if they “fly”, we should embrace them. Sorta like awarding the corner drug dealer with a pharmacists license and then trying to convince veteran pharmacists to welcome the newcomers as the next generation of their craft.
            If the FAA wanted someone to clamp down on – all they had to do was thumb thru the ad-rich pages of MA to see where the bullseye is. But hey…. enjoy your registrations and the suspicions that will mount as more and more unenlightened drone owners do stupid things to polish our image.

        4. Are you serious that you have to be US citizen???? 🙂 🙂

          What about all the illegal immigrants who border crossing in drones?

          Damn you just killed my next year business model for a startup company 🙂

        5. Actually John P. the change of address isn’t for your aircraft and registering it doesn’t make you an FAA Certificate holder. If your were a Certificated pilot then you have to notify of your change of address but not because you moved your aircraft anywhere.

        6. Unfortunately, it is unclear how this will affect non-US residents. I enjoy attending fun flys in the US, and would like to attend events such as Watts Over Owatonna”. Many MAAC members from Canada attend these vents regularly. In addition, many “snowbirds” spending time in the States over winter fly at AMA fields near them.
          The FCC website will not allow access to the registration process from those outside of the country.
          Any Ideas?

    2. I am very glad to the the AMA take this stand. We shouldn’t be thrown in with drone pilots. Think this through carefully! If the FAA gets their way, they will essentially take over the AMA’s job. If that happens there won’t be any need for the AMA anymore.

      1. I too am very happy that the AMA is taking this stand and looking out for its members. But I take issue with part of your statement.

        Shouldn’t be thrown in with Drone Pilots?

        First of all… I am a 30-year AMA member and have built, flown and operated many RC airplanes, boats, land vehicles in this time frame. I have built many of my planes from kits, and several from plans and raw lumber. I taught myself to fly RC and am pretty good at it. I have always and continue to fly with safety in mind.

        Secondly… I have been a licensed Private Pilot for 28 years, and have a keen understanding of flying full-scale airplanes and the need to keep our national airspace safe. Forcing us to register our models will not serve to make our airspace any safer.

        Thirdly… I also build and fly my own quadcopters. Note that I do not like to use the “media-loved, fear-mongering word.. drone.” So, you might call me a “drone pilot” in your lingo, but again, I fly my multi-rotors with safety first and foremost in my mind. You won’t see me featured on the 11 o’clock news having crashed a “drone” into some sensitive place like the Whitehouse lawn or some precious national park or monument.

        Fourthly… Large RC airplanes can carry some serious-sized payloads and can be every bit or more dangerous than many multi-rotors out there, so what the media loves to call drones are not necessarily more dangerous than “regular” RC planes.

        Fifthly… The AMA is CORRECTLY representing the entire overall picture of model aviation and it members.

        Just because you choose not to fly “drones” doesn’t mean the AMA should turn its back on those that do.

        I by NO MEANS advocate the FAA’s requirement of registering our model aircraft. It will NOT keep the nut jobs from being nut jobs, and will only serve to punish law abiding model pilots.

        I think with their carefully considered stance, the AMA is doing a great job in its approach to this rather heated subject. I don’t know how it’s going to play out with “Big Brother FAA” wanting to clamp down on all of this, but I am glad the AMA is taking this active roll to attempt to minimize the frustrations and hassle we are now facing.

        I applaud the AMA in its efforts and in keeping us informed through its communications channels.

        1. Thank you for your response Dean Mavis!! there are WAY too many AMA members that are elitist dinosaurs who don’t understand the reason for the AMA. Those types of people are in some ways more harmful to the AMA then the rogue “drone” pilots are.

        2. Your being a responsible quad copter pilot is commendable. I mean this sincercerly. However, you must admit that what has brought the FAAs attention was NOT an influx of rempent lazy bees landing on the whitehouse lawn, flying around national parks, or interferring with aerial firefighters. It is always “drones”/quad copters. They should have been separated from model airplanes.

          1. another words, you’re also an old dinosaur elitist who somehow thinks that your 5 times the weight, ten times the horsepower scale airplane is less dangerous than my 2 lb plastic drone.

            retired 25 year air traffic controller and AMA member who flies drones….legally

          2. Here’s a close call between a helicopter and model airplane (float plane to be exact) less than a mile from LAX,

          3. Funny, I see WAY more videos of WINGS flying very high and very far than I do your so called “drones”. Yes, the media picks up on anything and everything drone related, but 99% of the time when there is a report of a “drone” the photo shown is of a DJI Phantom, but yet we have NO description or even color of said drone. The new buzzword IS drone, but yet we don’t know if it was a wing, a plane or what. In fact there was a media report of a drone flying at night, police were called, turned out to be a plane with a ton of lights on it. So maybe you fly your planes responsibly, but that isn’t always the case. I’m tired of being lumped in with any irresponsible pilot of any aircraft, UAS, period. Sadly anyone says drone now a days it’s always the multirotor to blame. Get off the high horse, and stand united with the multirotors or you will find ALL UAS illegal, and the Feds won’t care what it is.

        3. Well said! So glad to read an intelligent comment in defense of responsible and safety conscious “drone” pilots. I too hate that term being applied to multirotors.

          1. Next time I hear anyone – especially an RC hobbyist – call my little Parkzone foamie a “drone” I am going to punch them. They are not drones! They have been referred to as “model aircraft” for nearly 100 years! Why do people feel the need to call small planes with no camera equipment “drones”?

          2. I also hate the name “drone”. I bought a QUADCOPTER not a drone. If they insist I call it a drone maybe I should equip it with radar,weapons and a video system so it would be a real drone?

          3. Drone is the new buzz word and WRONGLY used. However it fits the bill for the restrictions they intend to impose. They have been pounding this word into public’s mind as propaganda because for those who don’t know what a drone really is, this works wonders for their intentions.

          4. We will all hang together or separately…I have been “Hanging Separately” sense Aug of 1981 and it is little comfort really that a bunch more are adding their weight to the tree limb…You all get to see how the “Oligarchy unto itself”-the FAA works now…and I for one will not obey any altitude restriction at all ! My hawk,eagle,raven,and sand hill crane friends fly FREE ! 4 of my 7 sailplanes do not even have motors and if I launch them according to FAA rules from my local ridge sight I will have to throw them into the dirt !!! [which has happened on occasion but not because of FAA rules ;)}

        4. Dean that was wonderful. I don’t think I’ve heard this put so well. I may quote you on some of this should an opportunity arise, however I can’t say I’ve flown a real plane or built one from scratch. You sound very skilled. I primarily fly multi-rotor and I appreciate your way of thinking. It’s a shame many disagree. Thank you and stay safe.

        5. the USPA had the same problem when wingsuits became all the rage.
          the job of AMA is to promote and protect the hobby and promote saftey.
          i will now renew my membership after reading this post!

        6. I disagree a bit. Semi-autonomous UAVs/quadcopters are a bit different than the classical RC environment I was brought up in. Repeating part of my comment above, Yellowstone (and presumably other places) are dealing with pollution from crashed UAVs.

          They’re also marketing the Lily drone to follow you around when you’re skiing. Ski mountains are getting crowded. I already almost get hit regularly by people holding out GoPro selfie sticks on the mountain – I can’t imagine what it’ll be like when I have to also check the airspace around me and the jumps I am going to hit. Also, not really sure what dumb things people will do when their >$100 drone runs out of batteries and lands in the middle of a path or puts someone else at risk.

          This is a bit different than the classical RC world I was raised in. You had to take lessons to learn how to stay off the ground for >30 seconds, and in the lessons they’d make your responsibility towards other people’s safety crystal clear. Now, clueless people can easily pick up a drone with computer assisted flying, and do really unsafe things with it. There’s also a difference between ‘keeping your eye’ on an RC craft versus some UAVs where you’d be flying them off a limited mounted-camera view.

          I think you are right that RC planes are potentially just as dangerous as drones, or more-so, but from an operator standpoint, mass marketed UAVs scare me a lot more. What does this mean practically? Well, I’d rather see ‘licensing’, ‘verified training’, or ‘AMA membership’ before registration. Registration just means they can more easily track and penalize someone (which is alright if they’re just trying to ‘stop terrorists’), and maybe it will deter mass market ownership. I’d rather see them take steps to PREVENT idiocy.

          1. None of what you said makes any since at all. I have been flying for about two decades and never that I know of, has there been any training for RC. I, like most people since the 1970’s, have purchased trainer aircraft and then graduated to more advanced planes as budget and skills allow.

            Also, the people today are not some how more clueless than the people 30 or even 40 years ago. So, don’t tout government regulation as if it is some kind of smart pill that will magically make people more courteous. After all I think your real complaint(even if you don’t see it) is some kind of Mary Popins style of social politeness.

            Licensing does, in no, way help make people better at anything. It is the desire to be better that makes people more responsible. Putting the government in charge of any activity will do nothing more than add regulations that serve only to collect taxes and fees while punishing those who do not follow some B. S. set of rules. I can not imagine that a thinking person would not take a quick look at the DMV, public schools or Obamacare as a practical example of what government bureaucracy does for us.

            Your ideas and opinions does not speak of a person of intelligence or a person who believes in personal responsibility, but of a person with a bus patrol mentality that wants to control every aspect of someone elses life while trying to achieve some fictitious and idealistic social nirvana that hovers just out of reach of the common slob. How perfectly Marxist you are to have “the” fix that is the government.

            We as a country may not have all the answers as to how to prevent people from doing stupid things, but I do know a communist when I see one and you people with your taxes, regulations, power and control need to go away. Nothing good comes from the government.

        7. Dean, Thanks for the comments. Could not have said it better myself. I too am a “Drone Pilot”…Scary oooooh!!
          Lets all hope for the best…

        8. Thank you, Dean, for a very nice summation of the situation from someone who obviously knows what they’re talking about.
          I have to wonder what will happen when the inevitable happens – someone will use a drone in what will be dubbed a “terrorist attack”. Never mind the inconvenient truth that our military has been using unmanned drones for years to attack and kill “the terrorists”, and never mind the fact that these attacks have killed many totally innocent men, women, and children – some day one of our “toys” will be used to kill some Americans on our precious soil, and that will change everything. Suddenly, every drone in the sky will be perceived as being controlled by a terrorist! And “everyone” will feel they have the right to shoot it down!!
          I really think all this will happen someday, and it will be the end of this wonderful hobby. And a sad day it will be…

        9. Excellent, well thought tout response. I also applause the AMA for taking a reasoned approach to what appears to be an overkill approach to the perceived issue at hand. I do understand the timing due to Christmas purchases being at an all time high. “drones,” UAVs model airplanes and Helis are all potentially very dangerous. The AMA safety code applied prudently makes for a safer environment and mitigates inherent risks. Having a lot of newbies is a great opportunity for the AMA to reach out and increase membership and thus clout. that opportunity may have been missed. I would advocate a public-private partnership with the FAA to promulgate useful dialog and safety codes. the biggest difference with the multi rotors is that flying (liftoff/landing) can be done from a very small area. My fear is that the legion of new pilots – some of whom will be mischievous may cause all kinds of havoc by flying over property and people causing outcry and demand for tighter regulation.

        10. I been am AMA member for 25+ years. I enjoy building from scratch, kits, and customizing arfs. In the past 5 years I’ve built many aircraft with integrated autopilots such as naza, apm, and pixhawk. I have upgraded everything I fly with a controller capable of automation, including even a boat. Why? Many reasons. Firstly, it is fun integrating this technology into my models. But a huge benefit is safety! I’ve had a radio problem a couple of times, a flight battery go bad one time…and the flight controller automatically went to failsafe and got me home safely. The geofence is a great feature when I’m catching thermals. If I get fatigued or the sun gets in my eyes, I can switch to circle or loiter mode and take a small break immediately and safely. The point is, I’m an AMA member, a model builder+flyer, I love technology, and I fly these so called “drones.” I would like to see us not stereotype people because of what type of flight control we prefer. Don’t group those of us into a separate category because we prefer automated controllers. This is new technology that is very cool and very fun, and simply an advancement in our hobby’s technology.

        11. +1 Dean. I too have been building and flying model aircraft since childhood. I too have a couple multi rotor aircraft that I fly with my grand children in a safe and responsible manner.

          Also, I too take offense to being called one of those dread “Drone Pilots”. That just shows that the ignorance of the public and FAA has reached the AMA membership and that, quite frankly, scares me more than registering my name and address on the FAA website. I have been registered there for over 35 years from being an A&P mechanic and private pilot.

          I thank the AMA for defending our hobby and hope that common sense will eventually prevail in this issue.

        12. Agree with you 100%.
          The registration of RC where planes, helicopter ( single or multirotor ), and/or UAV is a hasty knee-jerk reflex to an increasing number or irresponsible flyers out there. It is only through education and understanding of the potential of this aircraft which can bring about it safe use. I wonder how many of the drone flyers are AMA members.

          Licensed Pilot ( VFR )
          AMA Life Member ( Academy of Model Aeronautic )
          Drone pilot.

      2. I doubt the FAA will provide modelers insurance or organize RC events and competitions.

        Paul Lindewall
        AMA 530555

        1. I do understand u feel about quad copter we need vote them out and are club too all be cos them get us more double and we not need this are hands now am a 4099491

          1. What?

            Based on what I could understand of what you said I don’t see what the issue is with quadcopters. I think they are great. They are easy to fly compared to other aircraft making it easier for more people to enjoy the hobby. Easier than a helicopter and they require less room than a plane. That and most of them are harmless.

            I’ve seen people killed by helicopters and I’ve seen some serious stuff happen because of planes.

      3. In my eyes there is a BIG difference between drone aircraft and quad copter aircraft. Drones are ment to be flown from a computer screen or other type of video device that does not require the pilot to keep an eye on the actual aircraft. Quad copters in my eyes are those aircraft that still need to be flown by line of sight.

        1. Yes I consider you correct Sean I’ve been building quadcopters for just about a year I have no bells and whistles just straight flight from a transmitter I do have an autopilot board but do not have one installed if I just want to watch it fly I will watch someone else but I enjoy the flying still got a lot to learn and gain experience

          1. I think the inherent stability of quad copters makes it easy for poor operators to start flying without training and the accompanied sense of safety.

            I think there’s also a difference between autonomous/non-autonomous flying.

            I think there’s also a difference between classical naked eye flying and limited-field-of-view camera flying.

            The commonality between all of them, I think, is the need for safety training. In our modern terrorism-paranoia world, perhaps people also think registering them is required as well.

          2. As a product development engineer, I can tell you that what makes consumer quad-copters stable is the computer assist. They are specifically designed to appeal to people that would not consider getting pilot training.

      4. Shouldn’t be thrown in with drone pilots, huh? The instructor of the safety class I took recently told us that this was the place for us. Besides that endorsement, I just joined minutes ago because the P3P forums were talking about how the AMA said to wait on FAA registration. I came here for information, to further my education, and for support.

        And the third comment is such a nice welcome.

      5. Thrown in with drone pilots!! If they can regulate drones they can regulate all form of RC aircraft. They will eventually get around to YOU with whatever you fly.

        1. Okay FAA who dropped the ball on the registry site. I’m sure anyone that wants to push this technology forward finds themselves held hostage are responsible R/C modelers and builder that enjoy recreational pass time known as ( hobbyist). please do not start office finger pointing to find out who’s on first, who’s on second, and launch the site on third; FAA started the ball rolling it is the FAA responsibility to finish what FAA started.

      6. Clin C thinks that plank flyers “shouldn’t be thrown in with drone pilots” Really Clint? Are you that narrow minded and ignorant to NOT understand that you either ALL STAND TOGETHER or you all HANG SEPARATELY? It’s ignorant and selfish attitudes like YOURS that got this whole mess started. “He flies a Helicopter, I’m not interested. He flies a Multirotor, I’m not interested”… Well how about that? Because of people like YOU, not enough people STOOD UP for their rights (and the rights of “drone pilots” to prevent the government from overstepping their authority and now look, EVERYONE is affected. Way to go Clint. Hope you’ll enjoy your restricted flying privileges…

      7. that in theory is true. register with faa and use you home owners insurance for accident coverage, won’t need ama insurance.

      8. I fly r/c (controlled at all times)and multirotor with GPS where the “unit” can take-off fly and land itself while I go inside my house and eat lunch. My perception is if you are in control of a non GPS driven craft, you should still have your contact info inside the craft. If it is a GPS guided craft, what’s the difference? Either way, you can loose signal / control and it may go flying on for miles before it crashes.

        The main problem is multirotor GPS guided craft are cheap, easy to fly, and pre-made. EVERYONE is getting one. Even those who don’t care to keep the hobby safe and fun. Registering them will only keep the honest away from airports and such just as they have been.

        Realistically they need to keep track of the GPS guidance “chips” whatever so if they do fly somewhere they shouldn’t, and crash, it may be possible to track it back to the owner.

        Registration is useless.

    3. Thank you very much AMA to take this stand. This would be just another step of the Government to control more and more our freedom. My be soon you need a permit to take a leak when you are a the flying field.

    4. Thank you AMA! Thank you for your leadership on this issue. Registration does not equal education.If Mr. Huerta wants new flyers to be safer and better educated ,his actions dont show it. The FAA is very close to destroying the best resource available to them.

    5. Well, AMA, did you learn your lesson?

      The FAA lied to you just like everything that comes out of Washington.

      As soon as the FAA informed you that they were going to include all model airplanes in their regulatory pervue, you should have walked out of the meetings.

      You can not sit down with the FAA over a cup of coffee and teach them how to do regulate us and expect good results. 55 oz to 55 lbs. sounds like a weight range that you gave them. Your AMA 55 lbs. ceiling. An exception up to 55 oz – are you kidding me? That is a joke.

      I wish you never would have talked to the FAA; you did more damage than good.

      The FAA would have eventually developed the regulations, but the process would have been significantly delayed, and the regulations would be on drones and quad copters only. Not on model airplanes.

      You should have separated your organization from drones/quad copters early on. AMA should have represented model airplanes only. When you crossed the line and associated model airplanes with drones/quad copters, then the model airplanes were included with the drone/quad copters regulations. THIS IS WHERE YOU SCREWED UP.

      You were attempting to increase your membership by including drones/quad copters, and it will cost the airplane modelers dearly.

      Congress exempted model airplanes, not drones/quad copters. Drones/quad copters are not model airplanes, they are machines.

      Show us that you have OUR best interests at heart, and not just creating a parallel database that exempts us from registering directly with the FAA. You need to send a dozen high-powered attorneys to go there and fight for us.

      Don’t make another mistake and turn over YOUR database to the FAA and “register” for us. That is private information for which you have no right to disclose to the FAA without the approval of each and every member.

      If this comes to realization, the only place you will see model airplanes will be in a museum, and it won’t be AMA’s museum.

      1. Like many other dues-paying AMA members I fly planes, helicopters and multirotors. The attempts here to separate one species of aircraft from another are exactly what our opponents want. Divide and conquer is the oldest tactic in the book. And the last time I looked this organization is called the Academy of Model Aeronautics, not the Academy of Model Airplanes. How would a 54 pound twin-turbine jet airplane fit under that title while a three pound quadcopter does not? Many of us remember the moaning and groaning not long ago when “traditional” helicopters became popular. Now those are routine and the next innovation becomes the favored feed of Chicken Little. Some things never change in a constantly changing world, and the one of those is the unfortunate tendency to think that only whatever oneself is flying, driving, riding etc. is the be-all and end-all of its sort, while everything else is unworthy rubbish.

      2. Im assuming you have no problem taking my membership dues as a drone pilot. Ever heard of solidarity? The media has hyped the drone issue about a million times more than reality. How about standing up for your hobby instead of yourself?

      3. Did you forget your pill this morning? Model planes and helicopters are both model aircraft, helicopters can have many blades, they are still helicopters, and aircraft. There really is no real difference, in fact airplanes may be more dangerous as they tend to be harder to control and generally go much faster.

        This registration business is all politics, it is the “we have to do something” attitude. I am a life member of the NRA, and I can guarantee you that even if the Constitution of the United States gave us the “right to fly model aircraft” it would not stop the politicians from “doing something”.

          1. Real Aircraft serve two purposes.. Transportation of people or cargo or as weapons delivery. My Model Airplanes and Helis do neither. They are replicas and in some cases just experimental models that happen to fly. They serve no other purpose than to fly around in circles or do aerobatic tricks.. They are not DRONES.

          2. It’s comments like YOURS that make me question the intelligence level of plank flyers… Do you REALLY believe that, or are you just one of those curmudgeons who thinks that only airplanes qualify for time on the field? While I realize that you most likely don’t have the skill set to fly helicopters, or multirotors, some of us are capable of three dimensional thinking and are able to translate that talent into controlling complex aircraft.

          3. Jim, even CONGRESS waived AIRCRAFT ONLY from these regulations but AMA included “drones” period, without input from us the owners of AMA as it’s a member driven org. Also, I like most do, fly all things, one of the first to do turbines, heli’s, quad’s and as a pro drummer of over 55 years,I find your comment about skills funny and also demeaning to all r/c pilot’s that obviously have skills to fly what they enjoy to.

          4. Gambo, multirotors ARE aircraft. There’s nothing in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 which limits “aircraft” to your particular delusion of what it is.

      4. Please try not to be closed minded about model aviation to exclude mutirotors. Just because we don’t fly some form of aircraft shouldn’t exclude them, I should hope we aircraft enthusiasts stand up for each other. I have been with the AMA since the 80’s. I fly all kinds of planes, heli and multi rotors. I like to fly competitively in everything so I’m into the cool cutting edge stuff. I have held many offices in local clubs and taught hundreds over the years to fly safely. Muti rotors are fantastic and lots of fun to many pilots. I have 5 myself, some for photography and some to race multiGP etc. Yes some guys just buy and fly depending on GPS and unfortunately fly in very hazardous locations. They have no idea why we stress safety and haven’t witnessed ESC’s fry, servos letting go, radio interference etc etc. I blame the manufactures who market these products this way. This is now our issue. Remember, It’s not what you fly it how you fly. I wish we could forget registration. I wish we could require everyone to have AMA or a government insurance alternate if they wanted but somthing. Maybe AMA cards should have a exam & instructor sign off box and the FAA card could do the same if someone didn’t want AMA and ask AMA club instructors to check out these buy and fly pilots before they can fly alone until instructors/testers outside the clubs were setup. Possibly charging a few bucks for flight test and written exam for reimbursement only. Requiring your name and address and telephone number on every aircraft doesn’t need a database. I don’t have all the answers but know at least pilots should have some training and testing. Registration alone does nothing for education.

        1. John: I think your comments are very well thought-out. In order to “get our wings” at the Frankenmuth Aeromodelers, we have to be trained by an instructor using a buddy cord, and at the end, before we fly solo, we have to perform basic flight manouvers and how to check our airplanes before and after we fly them. We have a checklist we have to have filled out by another instructor than the one we learned with. I think the worst mistake was the development of the “teach yourself to fly” aircraft, including the multi-rotors. If you really want to learn to fly, that’s what AMA instructors are for. It took me a long time to learn to fly. But it was worth it.

          1. And believe me, we all watch out for each other at the Frankenmuth Aeromodelers.

      5. Planes have the exact same technology as quad-copters, why trust some and not others? it is the same as saying ” I am a good driver so I shouldn’t have to get a license..just stupid ideas..if one has to register then everyone should have to register! just pay the 5 bucks and get over yourself!!

        1. First of all planes do not have the same technology as a quad does. We have people that cant fly a plane but fly a quad only because of the computer system in them. It is now a principle of the money and the 336 that exempted the planes from this mess.

          1. Apparently you never flew a Quad. If you shut it off it will fall out of the sky. If you shut off a plane or Heli it will stay aloft either by auto-rotation or wings. A quad cant auto-rotate except one model of quad a stingray 500 with collective pitch and that may not auto rotate either so back to the original statement they are not the same.

          2. The problem is flying a drone takes zero skill which creates a bigger issue with the non AMA members that fly these devices.

          3. 336 doesn’t exempt “planes”, it exempts “model aircraft”, you know, any model that flies.

      1. When will they be taking our registered vehicles, pets, guns, and everything else then? We’ve been registering cars for a very long time now. How do you suppose they would confiscate them and where would they put them all? Same with dogs, and whatever other pets and animals require registration.

        Also, we aren’t required to register our “drones”. We register our name and address. I seriously doubt they will be performing nationwide raids to search our homes for unknown toys to confiscate.

    6. congratulations. keep fighting to get a reasonable FAA that is supportive of model aviation. Thank you very much.
      Nickolaus E. Leggett Licensed pilot of full-scale airplanes, gliders, and balloons. Inventor and analyst. AMA Member.

    7. Great. However if you’re going to proclaim yourselves as a regulatory agency for “members who are not the problem” then you are going to have to disassociate yourselves from those who ARE (the majority of) the problem. Namely multi-rotor and FPV fliers, as most of the reported incidents that have led to this ruling have been about such.

      Otherwise you will be proclaiming your own members as being the problem.

    8. So does this all mean that we will now be requir to have 2 forms of ID on our multirotor -so,maybe we should require 3 or 4 forms of identification I think this would make it all much safer (really)

    9. AMA is standing up for its members? How can a group stand up for its members while also discussing how to streamline the FAA registration process for its members? That is like telling them according to Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 these new rules are illegal. But then also saying how do we make this easy for our members to register! Sounds like the AMA knows they are going to loose the argument before they start.

      1. all this FAA reg. stuff was and is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that ”normal” rc flyers didn’t create. I’ve been flying for 50 years. All the situations that are not rc flyers are not covered. What about model rocketeers, guys that fly thermal sniffing gliders and altitude contests, or distance/endurance contests.

    10. How can you possibly teach someone to fly under these ridiculous rules.

      For example: if you use a buddy-box and the airplane is registered to the training pilot, that makes the student in violation weather he is registered or not, because he is flying someone else’s airplane; and the training pilot is now in violation because he let someone else fly HIS airplane. Legally you can not have two people flying the same airplane.

      Even if you reverse the scenario, you still have two people in violation.

      So then, don’t use a buddy box – right? No, wrong. As soon as the training pilot takes the transmitter away from the student, to “save” the airplane, HE is in violation for flying the STUDENT’s airplane. The airplane is not registered to the training pilot, and now the student is in violation for letting the training pilot fly HIS airplane.

      So the student ends up having to self-teach, because legally that is the only way they can do it.

      The student ends up crashing or violating airspace because he is untrained.

      Now, what if the registered student decides that he doesn’t like to fly, can’t afford it, or are just not capable of doing it. Now, since he registered, they are considered a flyer and in the FAA database forever, and for no reason.

      There are no allowed exemptions or acceptions in the rules for this.

      None of this was an issue until the FAA decided to issue these rules.

      I would think that the FAA would want to encourage training for new pilots.

      Didn’t anyone think this through? The whole regulation is madness.

    11. Gentlemen and ladies:
      It would appear that no one has paid full attention to the E-mail we members received yesterday, that explained that the reason for us to not register at this time, is that there is litigation pending to force the court(s) to review the new regulations prior to any proposed enforcement of the new law, which has already been published in the federal register. I have read the full content of those 211 pages, and as far as I can tell, the FAA is indeed in violation of the congressional order concerning “model aircraft”, per se. How convenient that the legal system is on hiatus for the holidays, as is congress, so that we the people have no redress to this action prior to its implementation. I suggest to each and every one of you that you contact your congressmen and senators forthwith and protest in the strongest terms that this behavior is not to be tolerated and that if allowed to pass without due process, they will certainly answer for this illegal action at election time. THAT is the proper action for us to take at this time. Meanwhile, the many pages of Blog-blather that I have read here serve no other purpose than to inflame the collective tempers of our AMA members, without accomplishing much else. I for one fully support our leadership in this fight with the beaurocracy’s blatant disregard for congress’s original intent of the “model aircraft” exception to the current law, and I hope that you all will as well. HOWEVER, I also agree with the FAA’s belief that there should be some method of maintaining the safety of the NAS in light of the explosion (that IS coming) of sUAS usage without education per the FAR’s as they stand, as most of the “sheeple” have no idea of the consequences of operating outside of the NAS regulations. This is the quandary we must face together. I would therefore ask for a (very) little patience until after the holidays, to see if indeed the courts will support our protest of the new law. Meanwhile I strongly urge all of you to contact our representatives in congress repeatedly, until they respond.

    12. Just a thought; It seems to me that this situation is similar to the “assault rifle” argument. If we restrict, register, or ban “drones or AR15s ” it will solve all of the problems. RIGHT!!!! It will just mean that only the ones that have no respect for the law will have these, and those of us that are responsible will be without. I believe that the vast majority of the “drones” are sold to folks who do not plan to join AMA, or learn the safety guidelines that are a must. These “drones” are sold everywhere, e.g. Walmart, Frys, Target, Amazon, ect., and they sell a lot of them. Have we noticed a rapid rise in the AMA membership? I don’t remember reading anything about that. Anyway, thanks for the venting…

    13. New information states that the database will be searchable AND MADE PUBLIC.
      So not now the FAA wants to violate the privacy act that they claim in the initial registration.

      1. I would have no problem registering my flying models IF the AMA is the middleman for this whole thing. I’m not comfortable with my name and address being searchable by the public on the FAA website and it also effects my security clearance for work.

        Let’s think of this situation. Just say you lose your flyer in the wind or some sort of failure and a person finds it in their backyard. Let’s go worst case and this person thinks he/she is being spied on. Now they can show up at your doorstep and confront you? Not a smart idea at all. None of this should be able to be handled by the public. If anything they should only be able to contact the AMA and then the AMA will handle the situation. Keep the FAA out of this unless it’s something that is actually criminal. End rant.

    14. For anyone interested in asking the FAA about these rules for themselves, the direct phone number is (202) 267-8306.

      Or Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
      Phone: (202) 267-3883

      I called and they actually called me back. This is the office that the FAA says is in charge of the “new” registration, and where I was told on Dec 16th while on a phone call with them, that if I am flying at a designated model flying field, under the current AMA guidelines that I did not have to register for anything. If that is true, it means it exempts most of us community flying field flyers and not the over my/your house video spy-ers.

      Give them a call.

    15. So much back and forth on drone vs. model aircraft. I enjoy flying planes and helis from private property, I also fly from AMA sanctioned flying fields. I would gladly forgo my freedom from flying at home, if I wouldn’t have the restriction on height at my sanctioned fields while learning aerobatics, trying to stay under 400′. Instead of all the air space in the USA being a free for all, why not only being able to legally fly from AMA Registered, FAA approved flying sites. It would keep everything contained, call it “RC Air Space” if you will. If you fly outside the designated area you are in violation, the concept should be pretty easy for law inforcement to keep track of. I beleive that It would be extremely difficult for someone to show up with terroristic intentions and get very far with their plans.

      Drone pilots you are welcome to join us but, I would bet most would be board to tears flying in confined space by summers end. So how I see it is where drones can fly is the real issue which is about anywere, with limited operator input. Most of us would have a real problem getting their quarter scale model plane, or 60 sized model helicopter off the ground in down town metropolitan areas or sneak around their neigbors, or crash it at Yellow Stone. In my eyes Drone pilots are on their own. Yes we both have aircraft, but the real issue is where we both fly not what we fly!!! The sole purpose I have AMA is to be allowed to fly at my club field. Why is AMA going out on a limb for Drone aircraft operaters when the majority don’t even require AMA insurance to fly? I imagine this concept won’t get very far, because it won’t line the pockets of the few.

      Regards.

    16. I’m sorry but I don’t understand what the big deal is with having to register your device/model-craft/drone. You would have already been registering with the AMA, now you are just registering with the FAA. If we kept the regulations that the wright brothers started out with and never evolved them to account for evolving hazards/environment in the national airspace system, things would be unsafe. As new risks emerge, regulations must evolve too! I fully support the FAA in requiring everyone to register their devices/models/drones. If you were to make a compelling argument (other than “the intent of section 336 says we don’t need to register”) perhaps you would have better luck… but given the nature of this evolving technology and eminent risks involved, I highly doubt it!

    17. How has the AMA taken a stand ? Really 3 years in prison $250,000 fine .5 to 55 lbs and not just Drones don’t even refer to my 40+ aircraft and Heli’s to drones. Don’t compare me to the idiots that fly over controlled airfields and other places these morons fly. This ruling makes me sick, I don’t mean any disrespect either but other than organize fly ins what does the AMA do for us let us use there property at IRCHA weekend. Do you know anyone that has use them for liability reasons ? I don’t and I’ve been in this sport a long time. This FAA ruling is here to stay rest assured. I just listened to Erin Dobbs and Chris Savage a Graphic Designer and Marketing guy at AMA tell me to hold off on registering until the FAA changes there ruling or so we can use our AMA number… are you kidding me. These guys are telling me this will be educational process, I have shoes older than them two. I have over 25,000 hours and every rating you can get in real airplanes. This rule will stand and will get worse. These clowns made a commit about cars being registered on our roads and being about the same, its not the same there are bikes mopeds and other things on the roads all the time that need not be registered. Our little model aircraft are dangerous in the wrong hands just like a hammer that kills 500 people a year basically anyone with a 1/2 pound toy will need to register and give the government their tax. That is fine with me but the AMA should go bye bye and make these fields FAA compliant then. I don’t need anymore cards in my wallet. I think we should all be private pilots too, why not that would be safer. Like guns the idiots will still have them and do stupid things just like UAS’s. We ALL need to say no to this and not register, ALL of us together. Why do we continue to let the government make us pay for the stupid people in this country and the stupid things they do… I guess this is freedom right.

    18. I also think for AMA members the Government has exceeded the need to register model aircraft. I fly full size and have for the last 45 years and RC for almost 50 yrs and never had an incident. Uncontrolled drone flying from people not trained or understanding the responsibility have driven the country to this point. In the last month or so a helo had a quad go through the windshield and fortunately not hurt the pilot or force a landing. This was totally irresponsible and I don’t want to hit a quad in my plane as the damage would be extensive and could lead to loss of life. I support the AMA in the delay action and hopefully can work something out. My fear is government will sustain it’s position of not listening.

    19. This has to be too easy….why not require registration as part of the purchase? Works with cars, guns, stuff like that…..too easy! Not enough to complain about?

    20. if we wait till feb. the 30 day free reg. will have passed. and if your effort to help us reg. fails will we have to pay the $5.00 ?

    21. How has the AMA taken a stand ? Really 3 years in prison $250,000 fine .5 to 55 lbs and not just Drones don’t even refer to my 40+ aircraft and Heli’s to drones. Don’t compare me to the idiots that fly over controlled airfields and other places these morons fly. This ruling makes me sick, I don’t mean any disrespect either but other than organize fly ins what does the AMA do for us let us use there property at IRCHA weekend. Do you know anyone that has use them for liability reasons ? I don’t and I’ve been in this sport a long time. This FAA ruling is here to stay rest assured. I just listened to Erin Dobbs and Chris Savage a Graphic Designer and Marketing guy at AMA tell me to hold off on registering until the FAA changes there ruling or so we can use our AMA number… are you kidding me. These guys are telling me this will be educational process, I have shoes older than them two. I have over 25,000 hours and every rating you can get in real airplanes. This rule will stand and will get worse. These clowns made a commit about cars being registered on our roads and being about the same, its not the same there are bikes mopeds and other things on the roads all the time that need not be registered. Our little model aircraft are dangerous in the wrong hands just like a hammer that kills 500 people a year basically anyone with a 1/2 pound toy will need to register and give the government their tax. That is fine with me but the AMA should go bye bye and make these fields FAA compliant then. I don’t need anymore cards in my wallet. I think we should all be private pilots too, why not that would be safer. Like guns the idiots will still have them and do stupid things just like UAS’s. We ALL need to say no to this and not register, ALL of us together. Why do we continue to let the government make us pay for the stupid people in this country and the stupid things they do… I guess this is freedom right.

      1. I’m with you and will not register. I’ve been modeling since the 1950’s and have thousands of hours as a professional pilot, both military and civilian. This is a Freedom issue for me. If they want to arrest 70 year old modelers who have been flying for half a century let them have at it. I say don’t register. If thousands of model fliers don’t register the FAA won’t be able to do a thing about it. We need to stick together on this.

    22. I am very frustrated with the ama. I just read that renewing my membership with the ama automatically registers me with the faa. I am very upset about this….. I fly planes under the 8oz limit and would like to make my own choice in regard to whether the us government gets even more into my private business. Unfortunately the ama has tried to make this decision for me and has just lost a long time member- I will not be renewing my membership unless this policy is changed.

    23. I have been an AMA member since 1956 and fly electric powered radio controlled and free flight small model planes on a private farm at the invitation of the owner. I do not understand why the FAA feels it necessary to ask that all rc planes that weigh more than 250 grams register and what they hope to accomplish with that.

      I can’t think of an incident where a full size aircraft was interfered with by a model airplane flown by an AMA member. It seems to me that most of the problem with drones flying near full size aircraft have been by quad copters flown by press, photographers, police, and other people who are flying commercially of new to the hobby. These people need to be educated about the dangers, but AMA members are aware of and have complied with AMA safety regulations for decades. Our Congress has spoken on this subject and exempted model aviation from FAA efforts to regulate drone flying.

      The FAA regulation should be revised to exempt line of sight flying of model aircraft. As the regulation is currently written, it is confusing and misguided and needs to be revised for drone and FPV fliers.

      Pat

    24. I’m giving up the hobby after thirty five years of flying RC and recently small drones. I think I’ll take up a hobby with less stringent regulation… Something like competitive shooting.

  1. Congratulations on doing the right thing, taking on an unbridled FAA. Making all model aircraft people, including hundreds of thousands of new drone owners, pay $5, give our name and address, so the FAA can give us a number, which people can lookup and see our name and address is nuts. ..and leave it to local authorities to enforce, with no funds. It is not a step toward safer skies. The AMA ‘s education, club-efforts and other like it are.

    1. It’s not a step towards safer skies, it’s one more step towards total government control!

      1. No it isn’t. This will help us protect the hobby when someone does something and they aren’t an AMA member. Then it’s on the FAA.

        1. No it wont because We are AMA members that have rules for safety already. If someone does not belong to AMA then they have a complete disreguard for the hobby. Don’t associate us with them by letting this law pass

          1. I’ve been a pilot for years shopping at several local hobby shops and never once has any owner or other pilot I’ve met mention the AMA so I’m not a member. It wasn’t until just recently I learned of the AMA. I fly safe and responsibly always. I’m not a member of the AMA but it’s not because I have a disregard for the hobby.

            Is there an AMA group in every city or town to join?

          2. That’s one of the problems the AMA has had for years – NOT ENOUGH VISIBILITY AND EXPOSURE. This should have been taken care of years ago. EVERY distributor of model aircraft R/C or not should be REQUIRED to disclose information about the AMA to any and all customers. An easy way to do this is to REQUIRE a sticker on the item and information booklet at the point of sale and to stress to the customer about the AMA and the IMPORTANCE of it for any and all flying activity.

          3. Looks like I can’t reply directly to Quadcopter Pilot’s question about local AMA “group”.

            Anyway, even if there isn’t a club close to you, you can join the AMA. They’ll still be trying to defend the hobby, including your part of it, so you’ll be supporting that. AMA isn’t necessarily my favorite organization in every single way, but who else is going to pay the lawyers?

          4. Your statement is exactly why I stopped paying membership fees to AMA. It was the uppity dinosaur ‘good ole boys club’ mentality that drove me away. Now I’m one of the dinosaurs flying the new technology and liking it much more than crash and burn planes of 30-35 years ago when I flew 48’s and gliders. It was not possible to fly out of LOS; lose orientation and you were screwed. Radios were expensive, the batteries sucked and nitro was expensive, messy and maintenance a PITA. Ah yes, the good old days.

            BTW, there have been multiple deaths and accidents over the years caused by R/C planes. Just do a simple search. The payload of many of these “model aircraft” could wipe out several people in a crowd of spectators. So all the railing against “drones” is just smoke in mirrors. 400 mph jets, huge scale model R/C planes with payloads that could take out a bus. And AMA members are getting their panties in a bind about toy 1.5kg quadcopters mucking up their Exclusive Club. To date there has been exactly…..ZERO deaths caused by a multirotor model aircraft.

            I am in no way against “model aircraft”, which in my mind includes quadcopters (multirotors) as well. I will not register with the FAA ever because it is not a law passed by Congress. It is illegal and violates the 8th Amendment right off the bat, no due process and not to forget the FAA is in clear violation of Section 336 as everyone knows.

            I digress.

            What is the one piece of equipment that has changed R/C flying? It isn’t using 4 motors aka a “quadcopter”. It isn’t the fact the hobby is much more affordable. It is the flight control system which, if you use Arducopter for example (Pixhawk etc.) will work on planes, helicopters, 4/6/8+ multirotors and ground vehicles.

            Multirotor haters are, in my opinion, living in a bubble. Years ago nitro helicopters were very difficult to fly. Then came the electrics……still hard to fly but more affordable. Even small planes took a lot of skill and experience to keep in the air. Nowadays they are as easy to fly with little experience. The difference is today a pilot can plan missions regardless of the type of craft, and far away from LOS (well you could “see” it still) without consequence using FPV without autonomous flight. Flight controllers have accelerometers, gyros, barometers, GPS and sophisticated code to make it all work. And these FC systems make it much easier (and safer IMO) for pilots.

            As for threats to the public and/or national security, a multirotor would be a poor choice as a weapon. A modestly sized foamy plane can carry heavy loads and travel 20, 30 even 50 miles to its target, fly low, high and fast and everything in between for hours at a time, and arrive within a few meters precision. This can all be done on a tablet or phone anonymously from a remote spot. Oh, and the perpetrator can watch it all in real time, then post his flight on YouTube. Yes there are bogeymen around every corner.

            Question: suppose you don’t register your name with the FAA. How are they going to enforce it? Local LEA’s? How? Who’s going to fund it? Oh that’s right, FAA will “share the wealth” from the fines. My son is an attorney and would love to represent the first “convicted” felon of a non-existent law levying heavy fines and imprisonment not authorized by statute, all for not having his ID registered with the FAA. Does $27,500 and 3 years prison sound like the punishment fits the “crime”?

        2. The fact that someone is not an AMA Member does not delegate them to a lesser class of hobbyist or safeness. Anyone that can read knows what the recommended flight procedures are. As a hobbyist that has no ties to any hobby club, and yes, the AMA is just a club, I find it offensive that you would insinuate that being an AMA Member makes you a safer flyer.

          This regulatory overstep by the FAA is just another move by the Socialist agenda in Washington to keep tabs on who has what, so they know which doors to knock on when they want to take it away.

      2. It is just another move towards total government control because all they had to do is mandate AMA membership and an AMA number. The AMA has been around for 80-years and it has proven it can get the job done. Why does the FAA ( part of the government ) all of a sudden have to step. Watch out folks; we are on slippery slopes.

    2. And if I decide to leave the hobby years from now could I unregister or will I be tagged with an FAA number along with privacy risks the rest of my life?

    3. Next up on the FAA’s list will be a NRPM that you will have to possess an A&P license to build a model airplane…. I repeat my “call-to-arms” to contact your congressmen and senators and LOUDLY protest the FAA’s illegal actions. This beaurocracy has overstepped their bounds yet again, and needs to be brought to heel. It happens about every other election cycle. Remind those in the Capitol that they work for US, NOT the other way ’round, and they will be FIRED on election day if they do not do their jobs, and we will see some action on this matter in short order.

      1. These things could get sucked into an aircraft engine and kill people or fall from the sky and injure someone. I’m sorry, but your hobby is potentially harmful to people and it must be regulated. I fully support the FAA in requiring you to register your device/model/drone. If you have a better way, then proposed an alternate solution… instead of complaining.

        1. The aforementioned (remote) possibilities are the reasons we fly away from airports, and people and below 400 feet. Anyone violating those rules is already criminally negligent. Why exactly to we need new fees and databases to improve the situation??

      2. By the way, you are correct, they work for us to ENSURE SAFETY. That is their job and they are doing it.

  2. Good luck. I predict on 19 February we’ll be registering. And probably will have even further angered the Federal agency that controls the medium in which we operate….oops – hope to operate.

    1. Good job having such a negative view of this Frank. Seriously, attitudes like yours do not help at all. It is obvious the AMA is just trying to help keep out freedoms and rights…which the FAA is stepping all over…smarten up man!

      1. Thumbing our noses as the agency that has authority to regulate the medium in which we operate, with powerful people in Congress calling on FAA to take action, it monumentally poor strategy. If administrative controls like registration fail or are openly resisted, next is operational controls like no flight above 400′ agl anywhere, no flight in lateral confines of class B, C, or D airspace, tec. Be careful what you wish for (AMA resistance of FAA), you just may get it.

        There are few problems that cannot be made worse.

        1. Frank, you have to do some serious fact checking. In 2012 Congress PROHIBITED the FAA from regulating model aircraft. The FAA is now ILLEGALLY trying to regulate; as if they are above the law.

          1. Congress is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Go to CSPAN, search drones safety and watch the Oct 7th hearing. The Transportation and Infrastructure Committee directs the FAA to set up this registration process. Some on this committee even talk about forcing all “drones” to have gps and technology to limit where they can fly. AMA was there and attempting to represent us, but so were the Airline Pilot’s Association who is feeding the frenzy with false near-miss reports.

          2. Chris,

            What Congress passes can easily be repealed. It’s not written in stone and if Congress were to debate this openly, do you really think our puny community of modelers would hold sway in a discussion over aviation security? I want the same privileges you do. I’ve been flying since 1973. But I also believe that this latest instruction is an attempt by the AMA to assuage members because after several years, they came up empty-handed. Why would we NOT register for free and hedge our bet that the AMA doesn’t lose their lawsuit?

            MK

          3. I have read the FAA’s analysis of their authority to do this and I am convinced. I’ll be registering on Monday, saving myself the trouble of doing it at the last minute when AMA finally realizes they’ve lost this round.

          4. Exactly, The FAA did not just create this law out of thin air. The need for this regulation is supported with hard data illustrating the eminent danger associated with the improper use of these devices/models/drones. The FAA has a duty to ensure the safety of the NAS, safety risk is there, they need to control it.

            To those that oppose this, why don’t you start proposing alternatives (that address the risks) instead of complaining? That would be far more productive.

        2. I would rather we go down fighting like the patriots did, rather than put up our hands and say “have your way with us” This kind of spending member money I can get behind. It has worked for the NRA so far. The only thing needed for evil men to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Thank you AMA.

        3. I agree completely sir. My other comments elaborate. Everyone thinks the government is out to get them. If this becomes a huge battle they can just ban all of it to settle it.

          1. They can ban it? Really? Just like a little kid, take his marbles home…so that’s how OUR PAID VOTER ELECTED act?

    2. Good job having such a negative view of this Frank. Seriously, attitudes like yours do not help at all. It is obvious the AMA is just trying to help keep our freedoms and rights…which the FAA is stepping all over…smarten up man!

      1. If you want to talk freedom and rights… what about those on the ground and those in manned aircraft?? There is hard data to illustrate that the improper use of these devices/models/drones is potentially fatal. As the hazards/environment in the national airspace system evolve, so to should our regulations. I cannot believe that everyone is complaining about having to fill out a 2-3 minute form… really??? It could save lives.

        1. Where is this “hard data”? NO actual aircraft has EVER been damaged by a drone. It’s already illegal to operate model aircraft in close proximity to an airport. If someone is operating there, there are already laws in place, so there’s no need for this ILLEGAL registration attempt by the FAA.

    3. Are you for real? This is nothing more than a feeble attempt by those that prey on fear to take away liberties of the free and innocent. By having to register, those fear mongers are only saying that they expect us to do something bad or illegal. What ever happend to being innocent before being proved guilty? Grow a back bone and be free. AMA, thank you and keep up the good fight.

      1. Ummm ever read the news? People are doing illegal things with drones and planes. I’d rather have FAA regs with it than to have it banned altogether.

      2. Innocent until proven guilty??!!… Really?! that’s just another way that the government can get away with things. Its never been that way in the court system. Its always been guilty until proven innocent. that is why we have to fight for our freedoms

      3. Your comment is very dramatic. This is not Braveheart, this is the safety of our national airspace system. As the hazards/risks evolve, so to should our regulations. All this drama for 2-3 minutes to fill out a form. Really?? It could save lives.

    4. Frank, the FAA has never been in business to help anyone but themselves. Don’t worry about making them mad, “FAA do what FAA do”. I have been a commercial pilot for 30 years, and FAA is just like the IRS – they take because they can. Kudos to the AMA for manning up.

    5. For those of you who are going to cave-in like a cheap tent and register because you are afraid, and want the FAA to bless you with a secret code for your airplane, this is the way it is likely to go:

      The FAA will likely screw up your name, physical address, or email address, esp. with people having the same last name;
      Different pilots will be issued the same number;
      You may be issued someone else’s number;
      Or a combination of all of the above.

      The FAA never seems to answer their phone, so to correct the errors you will be directed to their email system. Have you ever tried to correct something over email? It will take weeks or months to correct the errors.

      If you are ever able to speak with the FAA to try and resolve the error(s), they will proceed to ask you for more information to prove who YOU are, and they always default to your social security number, or other irrelevent, personal information.

      If someone is in violation and using your number, YOU will receive the threatening letters, and the burden of proof on YOU to prove otherwise. If the FAA does not have your correct address, then you will never receive the violation notices, and you do not respond within the allowed time frame, your non-compliance will result in their impossing against you the excessive fines and penalties. Next step – collections and levys. Similar to IRS procedures. Good luck with that.

      Finally, if you happen to also be a full scale pilot, your pilot’s license, which may be your profession, may now be at risk for violation because of an error in the FAA’s toy airplane database.

      By the way, full scale pilot licenses are issued for no fee. Why should modellers have to pay $5? If this is a registry to promote safety, why should there be a fee?

      So the whole registration system is pointless. It is just another way to punish the law abiding (modellers, in this case) under the gise of protecting the public from a problem that does not exist.

    6. I can’t wait to give the FAA my credit card number.
      OOOOOPS!
      It looks like everyone is going to get what the want for Christmas…someone just hacked my credit card!

  3. Thanks to AMA for understanding the definition of the word “promulgating”. The FAA apparently doesn’t. I only wish that the AMAs actions can be within the 30 day window where if we have to unfortunately register it will be “Free”.

      1. In this case, its not about money it’s about the freedom to fly our models. More precisely, it’s about the government overstepping their boundaries. I have no interest in so-called drones, but I do believe in the right to operate them, regardless of my personal opinion. This is an issue where we all need to take the same stand, or else there can only be one outcome…

  4. As an AMA member, I have to applaud the efforts here. The FAA’s rules here seem intrusive and counterproductive. But I do have to question the advice to “not register” when registration is, currently, free and enforcement at the local level may happen before the AMA could get an injunction or possible a reversal.

    I’m not especially worried about people getting my name and address from one of my airframes should it come to that. I had to go through very much the same thing – more in fact, with the testing – when I got a Ham Radio license.

    I encourage the AMA to continue your efforts to get this overturned on behalf of both your membership and all the non-member pilots out there. Keep it up!

    1. Mike I agree with you. I am a fellow HAM myself and loosing an airplane is one instance where I think it would benefit on the potential return of the aircraft if a “lookup service” was available. Like everyone else I am disappointed in the way this was executed.

      1. OH the FAA makes it sound so nice that by putting your registration number on your aircraft the authorities will be able to return your lost aircraft. Yeah, right! The authorities will return your aircraft alright, along with a HUGE fine for FAILURE TO CONTROL AN UNMANNED AIRCRAFT. Along with another fine for “Reckless Endangerment” and/or an act of terrorism. For Gods’ sake people, whatever you do, I would NOT register even past the deadline no matter if the AMA wins or not. Listen very carefully to what Section 336 says. We are NOT in violation. The FAA says anyone over 13 years of age must register ALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT. Since when is a 13 year old a legal adult? That tells you right there this is “Voluntary”. It also says foreigners can optionally register to obtain a “certificate” to fly UNMANNED aircraft but if your a United State Citizen, you MUST register to be issued a number to “Prove” ownership of the UNMANNED model aircraft your flying! Again, the FAA is in absolute no LEGAL position to make you do ANYTHING of the sort. Keep flying, its your RIGHT. Just read and reread Section 336 and read and reread the FFA FAQ’s on registration. Happy Flying!

        1. YES, you should be fined for FAILURE TO CONTROL AN UNMANNED AIRCRAFT. If you cant control your aircraft, then how can you ensure separation?

        2. While I think there is a lot of hyperbole here, rights don’t mean a thing without legal representation to back them up. That’s a very expensive thing. Maybe more expensive than the fines. I doubt that it’s any different now, but I used to watch court arraignments many years ago. If a defendant showed up with a lawyer, they received a whole other kind of treatment. And if you couldn’t hire a lawyer, you might be denied a public defender for arbitrary reasons.

  5. Legitimate question, not being snarky, why is it a forgone conclusion that registration and all the FAA rules should apply to commercial use of sUAS? I mean I understand FAA regulating commercial cargo shipment by sUAS over public property or something like that, but why all commercial use? Why commercial use (such as photography) over private property? If it is safe for doing the activity as a hobby why should it be more regulated when done for money?

    1. Appropriate comment, not snarky at all. Your absolutely right. If I shoot my house and have some great mountain scenery and I sell it, to someone, it’s illegal. But if I give the same person that photograph as a gift it’s not illegal….give me a break. Talk about stupid people drawing a line in the sand this is it. This whole thing is very wacky.

      1. Is it true nobody has been fined to date for commercial use without being certified? If so there must be a good reason they can’t. I know about the 1.2 million threat of a fine toward one company but thats all.

    2. A company in Florida recently got FAA approval for a drone to be used by news agencies. I for one would not want a 75-LB drone flying over my head in a crowd. Have you seen the videos of law enforcement crashing helicopter drones a few years ago – scary. That’s why commercial drones and operators need to be certified. I see commercialism to be very dangerous in the short term – because, they have been certified and when someone gets killed or maimed, they just say sorry it was an accident.

  6. How about the AMA offering the AMA member list to the FAA as a legitimate registration that falls within the FAA guidelines for model aircraft operator registration. This would encourage non AMA drone operators to join AMA for the AMA Member benefits and insurance if they are also automatically registered with the FAA.

    1. That right there sir is EXACTLY why the AMA and ANYONE who flies WITHIN an organization that implies safety guidelines is EXEMPT from ANY RULE OR REGULATION. DONT REGISTER WHATEVER YOU DO. You don’t have to have the FAA consent to fly or be under ANY of their OBLIGATIONS. Congress already has given us that RIGHT no matter how the FAA Interprets the LAW.The FAA should be sued for FRAUD and COERCIAN not to mention BRIBERY for threatening anyone who doesn’t comply with “THEIR” interpretation of the LAW. According to Congress and Section 336, there shall be no RULES or REGULATIONS made or imposed involving rc model aircraft. FAA just doesn’t want to recognize the LAW and COMPLY. Too bad for them!

  7. We’re already registered through the AMA. Registering your plane is crazy I have multiple planes if we do have to register it shouldnt be each plane but the pilot. If we sell or give a plane away will there be owner transfer paperwork? Over the years we’ve said these are not toys but face it, they are. So the FAA wants toys registered. I’m starting to fly mini war birds if this happens every plane I fly will be .55 lbs or less. Mini planes are a lot of fun. Good luck AMA

    1. Richard, you need to understand and read the law first. It is a registration for you, not your plane. A fee per person, not per plane/craft.

    2. You didn’t have to register each plane. Just one and the number was good for all your aircraft. If you sold a plane that person’s number would need to be displayed or they would need to register. Hopefully the AMA puts this idiocracy rest.

    3. Please correct me if I am wrong but what I have read about this is that the operator only need to register one time every three years and do not have to register each aircraft individually. So you would have one number to put on all of them. Think of it like a drivers license but easier. I was planning on having stickers made with both my AMA & FAA numbers on them so all I have to do is stick & go. Hopefully the AMA can make some headway on using the AMA number in place of the FAA numbers. That would be awesome!!!

      Just remember guys, this is a PR campaign by the FAA to make the public (that is beyond fed up with the whole “drone” problem) feel better by making the public think that the FAA can do something about it. There will still be NO enforcement of any of this unless one is flown it restricted air space. Like the one that was flown over the White House, remember hearing about that.

      1. Yup, your idea of sticker is pretty much the way I was planning to do it too, except that I make my own water-slide decals using the Testors supplies. It’s been working for me for a long time.

  8. Is it just too cynical and paranoid to believe the FAA won’t accept the AMA’s proposal because they would have to approach the AMA to get a list of “suspects” in any particular local to follow up on drone complaints??

  9. Yess!!! Thank you AMA, I strongly don’t believe that drones and model aviation should be togeather. Drones should be on a separate deal.

  10. I am not a “drone” pilot. I never have been and never will be. Drone pilots are those remotely fly their military style quadcopter or hexicopters or high altitude surveillance airplanes.

    Those are not what we fly at our local club fields and club events. I understand the frustration the FAA is having with this huge influx of radio controlled 3 axis gyro controlled GPS software flying devices. The buzz word has caught on and now they want to include us in this mix.

    Please push forward to have congress put a moretrium on this silly law.

    1. NOTICE: THe first page of the AMA website, right next to the
      recommentation defer registeration is an ad for ‘Drones.’
      Who’s side are they on?

      Quad-copters and tri-copters are not ‘drones.’
      Civilians can not own ‘drones.’
      ‘Drones’ carry radar, infared, missles and other armaments.
      Only the military has ‘drones.’
      It is the media and the advertisers that continue to call them ‘drones.’
      Which is damaging to all of us.
      They are quad-copters or tri-copters.

      When ever they are referred to as a ‘drone’ we need to correct them.

      It is just another excuse to hire more government employees to process the forms and issue more needless regulations and fines.

    2. We may not consider ourselves to be “drone” pilots but the FAA considers anyone who flies by remote control to be flying drones. It doesn’t matter what the configuration is be it multirotor, plane, heli, or military it all seems to be arbitrarily grouped under the Drone label now. We have the military to thank for militarizing our hobby and the FAA now considers us a threat.

      I think FPV was the real game changer with our hobby. Put a pound of Semtex on your FPV flying machine and what do you get? Take a look at the Youtube video of a Russian hobbyist who mounted a machine gun on a quad. These ideas are what terrifies the FAA.

  11. No problem, I won’t be registering anyway. Unfortunately, everybody won’t band together and NOT register to make a stand, because people don’t want trouble. It’s already here, and it’s already real. They are gonna take money from responsible people, and well, do nothing about people that actually are a problem. Many people will argue that we need to do this and if you don’t, that you are not a responsible pilot. How is this going to change things? Besides take your money. If somebody is planning on using model aircraft in a malicious manner, they are not going to register. Nothing will be done unless something bad happens involving a model aircraft (there are no rc police), but when it does, do you think they will care if you are registered? They just want your model marked so they can track you down.

    1. You’re not alone, I won’t be registering either. I build most of my planes, so there is no record of them even existing. Like you said, this is just another example of the government trying to take our money. Don’t be a fool and don’t be a pushover. Don’t pay these jerks another cent!

      1. FAA registration will be just like gun registration, Stupid and unenforceable! Criminals do not register their guns, the nut cases and jerks will not register their quads or planes. The FAA needs to go after them and leave the rest of us alone! The AMA had better stop this now or they may lose a lot of members. I am a 20 year member of AMA and have both quads and planes and I will not register with FAA.

    2. I’m not registering either. We really should ALL not register…like you said people are too afraid of trouble….and obviously would rather bow down to the illegally reaching FAA. What people don’t realize is that they too are breaking the law by following FAA’s regulation which is illegal since they are ignoring Congress. Wake up people.

    3. I will not be registering either. I’ve urged members of my former club (I just moved away) to not register either.

      1. The AMA knew last summer what the FAA was going to do, which is why the AMA filed their lawsuit in August.

        The AMA never informed the members of the result, and then 2 months later increase the membership dues.

        I will renew my AMA membership when I see some REAL results, meaning leave it the way it was. Not just a bunch of lip service. These are toy model airplanes. What’s next – registering our children’s legos?

        I will not register either.

        1. I read just now that the litigation is still pending. If you don’t want to believe the AMA, that’s your right, I suppose. So the AMA is still spending money on this, but because they can’t make the courts go faster than they do, you’re going to deny them money to fight this? Our legal system is pretty slow these days.

          I’ve been reading about full scale aviation for decades. The FAA is often unreasonable, so the real story is that they jumped the gun before the litigation was over and before they were ready. I predict registration will be in a shambles and that very few of the Christmas toys will be registered. Particularly since the guy on the street probably hasn’t heard of the requirement. I’m guessing if the FAA actually made a concerted effort to register those guys, there would be quite an uproar. Lots more of them than us, I would guess.

  12. The solution to everything in this country is lets sue..

    however the only winners in a lawsuit are the attorneys and court officials.

    Lets not sue …lets pay 5 and lets register.

    I want to say to a bystander. . Oh it’s ok i am an FAA registered drone pilot so i am “legal” so no need to get worried or call the police. .get it we are now “legal” to fly..

    But if you are flying at an ama field only. then and only then it does not make sense to have to register. .

    So i am registering asap and thrilled to tell the next person that challenges my right to fly with HELLO I AM a registered FAA Pilot.. sorry ama nowbody out side the industry knows who you are and every dumb scard civilian will be less likely to call the police if i am FAA registered. So AMA play nice with the FAA..

    1. You’re out of your mind. This is the first step in the FAA’s illegal overreaching. You think the fee is going to stay at $5??? Do you think the safety rules are not going to get tighter to the point they make it impossible to fly?? This is just the beginning of ending the hobby without outright banning it.

    2. No they won’t be less likely to call the police. They call the police on military and civilian full-sized aircraft all the time.

  13. Whereas I agree that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress’ intent in Section 336, I’m also of the opinion the FAA has no legal authority to force registration of individuals that own a given piece of equipment. The registration process is clearly geared on owners and not their respective units. Remember ‘Gun Control’? Punish everyone for the actions of a few.

  14. So you are suggesting we wait until the expiration of the free period? So we end up paying?

  15. I’m confused I don’t even own anything that is for aerial photography, and now they’re saying we have to register even if we don’t have those items. I hope the AMA could do something about this! $5 is not that much but I already pay my ama fees too.

  16. Thank you AMA for this action, so far. I urge the AMA to pursue every legal remedy to nullify this lawless action by the FAA. I am still mad as hell 3 days after the announcement. It is just incredible that the FAA would make this total overreach, and completely counter to the law Congress passed. I will not register, regardless, so hope you prevail. If unsuccessful, I will likely let my AMA membership lapse and leave RC flying. The FAA is out to ruin this hobby.

  17. As an AMA member, I’m very concerned with FAA’s blatant disregard of the law applicable to the ‘non-regulation’ of model aircraft. The wait for comment and direction from AMA was painful although I realize that it takes time to discuss and plan a course of action. Thanks AMA!!! My confidence is somewhat restored.

    My thoughts are this: the blanket registration of virtually all model aircraft in hobby use will create an absolute mess. A mess for registrants; a mess for hobby stores; a mess for model building companies; and, last, a MESS for the FAA and government. It will be un-manageable and will NOT achieve any of the illusionary goals leading to increase aviation safety. It time it will create a humongous data base of useless and stale data that serves no purpose other than to continue to feed money into the contractor’s trough.

    I’ll raise a concern that I believe AMA should also address with this ‘registration’ business: Personal data security. As a retired Federal employee and military retiree, I was informed by the Office of Personnel Management of a ‘breach’ of OPM computers that have compromised my personal information. I have ‘signed’ up for the free protection program (yes, well after the horses are out of the barn!!!) To put a point on it…. what assurances do we have as ‘registrants’ regarding personal data security.

    Expanding on my concern. The FAA, very unwisely in my opinion has included 13 year old youths in their expansive and intrusive proposal. This is most unwise. Imagine the pedophiles who have the ability to crack into the system and steal the personal information of a child? It is possible. The AMA should address this issue as well, although we don’t enroll children in AMA programs.

    As Club Secretary, I’ll do my best to inform our club members of AMA’s latest position.

    As a last suggestion… Please form an email list of Club Presidents and Secretaries. Use it to send information like the above directly to Club principals so we can redistribute it to club members.

    Sincerely,

    Jim Myers

    1. The FAA hasn’t been an independent Federal Agency for quite some time. It is an Administration that answers to the Department of Transportation. Anthony Foxx, Secretary of the D.O.T., directed Michael Huerta, Administrator of the F.A.A., to register certain model aircraft. This wasn’t Secretary Foxx’s original idea. These guys do not get to this level by bucking the chain of command, no matter what.

  18. Simple solution – AMA member – then already registered ( AMA and FAA ). Not an AMA member – then must register with FAA. Why then register with the AMA at a higher cost ? Because without the AMA you are not insured and you can not fly at an AMA sanctioned club where you get the most benefits of flying and LEARNING from other like minded R/C pilots.

    1. Greg, go to the FAAs Aircraft Registration page, it indicates how to register aircraft under LLCs. This reg. is sort of mimicking the aircraft registration reg., and more.

  19. The way I see it is that the AMA is trying to do what is right here. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are getting squeezed. Think about it. They represent their constituency that is undecided whether they want to stay as members due to inaction, they are trying not to let the FAA run over them, and at the same time trying not to destroy relations with the FAA that they have tried to foster in an effort to allow us the right to keep flying our model aircraft and enjoy our hobby. What they are doing at the moment is at least trying to get clarification how our model aircraft are to be legally classified. It may only be a stop gap measure but at least the approach is correct. There is a petition that already exists that needs to be heard that will either nullify or give credence to the FAA to move ahead with registration of model aircraft. The AMA is not the NRA and we don’t have the Second Amendment backing our right to fly aircraft. The FAA already forces full scale aircraft to have registration numbers and believe they have that same ability but on a much grander scale. Unfortunately I believe the FAA is misguided in their thinking that registration of model aircraft will effectively do any good. Anyone serious about using an unmanned aircraft to perpetrate a criminal act will do so without registering with the FAA. Anyone has the ability to construct a unmanned aircraft and the components needed to do so are unregulated. What I am afraid of is some incident taking place that will restrict flying model aircraft in any airspace deemed too close to areas of interest that will restrict our current flying fields or even shut them down. This will kill our hobby. The majority of our hobby community lives near population centers and this means controlled air spaces. We need protection for the continuation of our hobby and that means we need to continue to join together and speak with one voice. I believe the AMA represents us and is still the means to do that. I will stand with them and their constituency and continue to press for our voice to be heard.

    1. Trying to foster a relationship? Suing the FAA is a crazy way of building a relationship.

      1. Negotiating from a position of strength might get the respect we need and deserve, as opposed to letting them walk all over us.

        1. And how is the AMA’s existing lawsuit working out so far? 180,000 members are nothing in the big scheme of things. Not with powerful Senators urging FAA to take action, the media highlighting the danger, and then here’s the AMA positioning itself in opposition to something that isn’t fundamentally unreasonable?

          1. AMA just needs a few POWERFUL Lawyers themselves. It’s not only who you know, its what the few you do know, know. You know?

          2. …Isn’t fundamentally unreasonable? If making up demands which go against the express will of Congress isn’t unreasonable, I don’t know what would qualify. It’s more a matter of at least attempting to hold a federal agency in check than anything else. Can’t you see that?

    2. That’s fine and all but the AMA is completely missing the point here. This is not directed to cause a burden to AMA members. This is to protect the hobby from the idiots who aren’t members of either the AMA or a sanctioned club. With nothing else in place, these people will continue to fly over sporting events, cities, and even government facilities. If the FAA does nothing to try to inhibit this they could either ban personal use or make registration really excessive. It’s $5 and probably takes a few minutes to register. We can hold the FAA accountable when someone flies an “RC bomb” into something when it happens because the person doing it won’t be a club or AMA member. That alone could save our hobby. I think the AMA needs to put their “boat and pony show” away until it’s really needed.

      1. Really? protecting the hobby? and $5 is OK? I did not have to pay the FAA for my Airline Transport pilot license and just certified a commercial Air carrier for no Cost!. The idiots will not register and we are paying for the enforcement. I could go with a rule exempting regulation for all flying either over their own property or an established RC field. then registration for flying elsewhere. But is will only affect those of us flying responsibly.

        1. True Les, but the Feds, as I’m sure you know, changed the aircraft registration requirements a few years back. 3 year re-register requirement that costs what? $5.00 I would rather pay it once for myself vs all the R/C birds our family has. Though I do believe the FAA cannot require a 13 year old to register, but then again as you know, they are THE FAA.

          1. Yeah, the 13 and under kids parents must register them, But those 14 & 15 year olds are going to be fined and go to jail for not registering. How’s that for the FAA thinking? They don’t think, They are government.

      2. Protecting my hobby by possibly destroying my part of it. You’re supposed to sign something that says you’ll stay under 400 feet. Thermal Duration and ALES sailplanes LAUNCH higher than that. I hope that either they neglect that little bit or change the requirement. I don’t want to, and probably can’t afford to live in Canada every summer until I get my LSF level V. I hope something more reasonable is negotiated.

    3. David, and all, the FAA, after 9-11 came up with an airspace restriction that is permanent or temporary depending on what and where an event is or is occurring. That restriction is called a TFR or Temporary Flight Restriction, which in some cases is permanent, such as over the White House, Camp David, The Disney operations…others are temporary, such as sporting events or anything that may seem to be a possible target of terrorism or in some cases, operations that the FAA wants to keep certain aircraft out of said airspace…such as firefighting. So currently they wont shut us down. But I do believe that more restrictions will be coming as TFRs do not keep people from violating said airspace, and certainly a terrorist doesn’t care, however if one googles FAA TFR Map they may very well get a good idea where good targets may be. So, the FAA regulations aren’t always about safety but may very well be about satisfying an interest with money, or the so called public interest (as in – see we did this and now things will be safer). What may be coming is Pilot Certification, since the FAA is considering nearly anything that flies an aircraft, aircraft are piloted and pilots must be certified, and the FAA has regulated pilots (though I know some that never have been certified and therefor never regulated), and yes the requirements to be a Pilot for hire are much more than not. So everyone may want to go to your local pilot shop and get an FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) book, and possibly the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards book as well. May as well join the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association), and maybe AOPA (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association) too, as they both can be educational and can lobby congress to help preserve our freedom to fly. The airline industry has been trying to destroy General Aviation for quite some time now and are being somewhat effective as pilot certification has been dropping as the years go by. Since we are being lumped together now, maybe we should all join together to increase our numbers and be more effective at lobbying, since really, Congress listens to money and numbers of people. The Gov. has been playing the FEAR card since 9-11 in this country and with the help of the media they have been extremely effective at eroding our freedoms and more than likely it isn’t going to stop until the public revolts. That said, while I wish the AMA could affect change here, I do not think they will as Congress and the FAA believe they MUST do something here to satisfy public outcry/fear. The exact same reasoning they created the TFRs.
      Best Wishes

  20. The FAA is tell us to give our Names and Address as they cannot by law have us register the Quads or other RC aircraft

  21. While I appreciate what you guys are doing, What about those people who don’t have AMA nor Want to join?

  22. Well intended effort from both sides but futile. In my 30 yrs of rc I have never seen a model with name and AMA number, never seen a club inspecting or enforcing the rule. Likewise with the new Part 48. No guarantee every rc pilot will register with the FAA either. Those that would, will never get in trouble because they are likely to be responsible pilots in the first place. Those smugling drugs to jails or flying long range fpv will never id their planes! Get real.
    At the end, nothing would be accomplished. So don’t sweat it and sleep tight.

    1. The FAA is well aware that AMA only “encourages” compliance, does not have active compliance assurance processes, and rarely holds violators accountable. FAA is not accustomed to aviation safety management systems that take such a hands off attitude. No wonder they’re adding additional controls.

    2. Well, where have you been Hose? Never saw a AMA number on a model plane or name and address in a plane, never saw a club inspect a model. Get your head out of the sand.

  23. AMA, You need to push all the way, and keep as much freedom for us, and kids as You can.

  24. Years ago, when I was a junior officer in a squadron, a Navy Flag taught me a critical lesson: “There are no problems that cannot be made worse.”

    Think about that and ask yourself what happens if the FAA decides to respond by formally denying the AMA’s written request to be named a Community Based Organization? From the FAA’s perspective, there would be some poetic justice in such a move, as PL112-95 section 336 would be immediately turned into a set of golden handcuffs.

  25. I personally don’t see the problem as long as I don’t have to pay the $5 and if the data base is not publicly searchable.

    1. Initial registration free in first 30 days. 3 year renewal after that and no guarantee the price remains $5. The database is not searchable now, but will it remain that way? We are seeing right now that the FAA is doing whatever it pleases regardless of input from the AMA (or anyone else?).

    2. The problem is, some kid forgets to put his number on a sailplane and he is now liable for a felony, failure to register an aircraft in accordance with the appropriate FAR.

      1. Which is,why is it a person 13 years of age must register. A 13 year old is NOT a legal adult to sign anything legally binding to be responsible for ANYTHING!

        1. 13 yrs. old – this isn’t the only issue. Hospitals and Schools are trying to force Social Security numbers on newborns only to have their ID hacked and owe money (parents responsibility) before their 1 year old :<(

          1. GREED – a very dangerous thing which corrupts and destroys. Sad; truly sad indeed.

  26. (Sec. 336) Prohibits the FAA Administrator from promulgating rules or regulations on model aircraft flown strictly for hobby or recreational purposes and meeting certain other criteria.

    Abiding by their own rules and restrictions makes further action against flying hobby aircraft in violation of their own RESTRICTIONS OF POWER

  27. I agree, but I also think it is futile and on the 19th of February we will all have to register if we still want to fly and be ‘legal’. I don’t think the rulings marginalize what the AMA does. It still has value and a place in this brave new world.

  28. I think this is a good idea. This will give the AMA time to “fight” the FAA in this new law. I think it would be a good idea for the AMA to start a petition to get the FAA to abandon this law.

  29. I just hope that this can be worked out. I think that the AMA is the only place that we should have to register with. Now if we register with the FAA they going to cover us with insurance too??? AMA dose!!! Need the FAA to start thinking a little.

  30. In light of the fact that member HAS already posted a comment,concerning HIS TELEPHONE CONVERSATION,with the FAA office assigned to DRONE REGISTRATION. To paraphrase, he basically asked one of the 2 individuals running the program,if he an active MEMBER OF THE AMA,operating a non-commercial MODEL AIRCRAFT at a flying field is he subject to this registration requirement? The ANSWER WAS NO.

    I was unable to call the office- it was after 1700 Eastern time. I WILL be calling as soon as possible. With this in mind-plus the sickening statement concerning “assisting the FAA to STREAMLINE THE REGISTRATION PROCESS after the deadline, it is my humble opinion that the AMA is playing both sides. Hedging their bets,protecting their valuable advertising income from the Drone manufacturers and large retailers against the MEMBERS. Please by all means tell me,how in the hell,can a member get more information, on his own,by a simple phone call- Than the Executives representing 180,000 members?

    I am personally disgusted beyond words. The AMA had better invest in better IT INFRASTRUCTURE and ANSWER the TELEPHONE. When a GOVERNMENT office answers THEIR TELEPHONE, is it too much to ask the AMA to do the same. Please by all means AMA- you have my phone number- call me ANYTIME.

    1. Kurt Stier December 16, 2015 at 01:58
      BTW for anyone interested in asking the FAA for themselves, the direct phone number is (202) 267-8306.

      Or Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
      Phone: (202) 267-3883

      This is the office the FAA says is in charge of the registration and where I was told on a phone call, that if I am flying at a designated model flying field I did not have to register for anything. If that is true, it means it exempts most of us flyers and not the over my/your house video spy-ers.

      They also informed me that nothing is final, and there are still things to sort until the 21st yet and they are continuing to work with the AMA on the final registration designation and changes.

      1. Yes, T.Bert. As we have been saying this is evolving and is not over.

        We are taking action with the US Court of Appeals, but we are also still advocating for our members with the FAA. On both fronts we are making progress.

        1. I’ll be calling the FAA as well as ANYONE willing to answer the telephone at AMA HQ. As soon as possible.

          1. Our apologies on the difficulty to reach us. We have been very busy working with legal counsel, addressing the media, building relations with sister organizations, and advocating for our members to the FAA.

            Those efforts are starting to generate results.

            In between meetings we are answering emails, following up on blog posts/social media, and answering as many phone calls as possible. I personally have answered hundreds of calls this week.

            If you cannot reach AMA HQ, you may want to try to reach out to your district representatives and AVPs.

          2. I have had no difficulty in contacting AMA. I wrote to Dave Matthews personally and got a reply very quickly.
            You have to cut the office some slack, do you think your the only one calling?

          3. Thomas, glad you were able to get in touch! T.Bert, we are starting to get caught up on phone calls. Feel free to call again if you have any questions.

        1. The FAA intends to make this registration aviailable to the public, and be administered by a third party.Dont forget , this registration includes children over 13 also-how intelligent is that?

        2. I am an FAA certificate holder ; Commercial Pilot with multi engine and Instrument ratings.
          My name and address is already publicly available on the FAA open database. And I was never advised about this.

          SO I would imagine this would also be the case for this registration of RC aircraft operators.
          While fighting this registration may be a good idea, I don’t want to put my certificate at risk for operating what the FAA consider an “unregistered aircraft”, ie a model aircraft.

    2. A phone call is not legally binding. The text the FAA is written up says something different

  31. Fantastic news, way to go AMA! So frustrating to see the FAA take the blanket easy way out and punish us responsible RC pilots, which does NOTHING to solve the problem at hand. Surely they can work out a better solution with the help of the AMA and others in our industry if they’d listen and understand our arguments. Good luck to all of us!

  32. they will only take a credit card so they can track you. but it is easy to go and get a prepaid credit card and give them a BS name and address and just set up a one time mail account that you you. use the TOR browser to set up the e-mail account do not use your regular browser. good luck all

  33. As a drone or quadcopter pilot I must say that I can sympathize with the guys that fly RC planes at air fields. You’ve never given anybody any issues and have flown responsibly for years. I would suspect if they had never put a camera on the quad these problems would never have happened.
    I fly by all the rules. I want to do aerial photography and complement my portfolio. Unfortunately, a few well publicized dimwits have screwed this up royally. For all of us. However, I also believe that the FAA has overhyped the issue. They have used their influence and asked the nightly news to broadcast these over stated incidents. I had seen the FOIA that the FAA was required to submit in August of 2015. There was only one actual issue with a drone out of 200 reported issues. And that issue was somewhat unsubstantiated. Only one drone ever hurt anybody on the ground and no injury resulted.The FAA is chasing a problem that is not well documented, making rules for people that have never had a serious incident in decades (RC planes). Most people will ignore the registration just as they do with gun registration.

  34. Aren’t there any members of the House of Representatives, The U.S. Senate, the federal court system, etc., etc., etc., who are involved in the activity of building and flying miniature aircraft? People in government who can see how ridiculous this is, and how it will just add to the bureaucratic mess that is Washington already? Thousands and thousands of people and hundreds of thousands of R/C aircraft that weigh more than .55 lbs.,”registered,” for what? Because of a few people who might want to spy on their neighbors?
    Yes, there are those who will use their “drones” for questionable and downright illegal purposes, and that will always be a problem with the advent of fancy hovering machines and tiny little cameras. People abuse the system, always, in every system. But why punish all for the actions of a few?
    Are the “bad” guys going to “register” their aircraft? I don’t think so. This pastime of ours has been doing just fine for the better part of a century, without “big brother” coming in and making a mess of things.

    1. Agreed. I think they mis-categorized the culprits. Rather than labeling them as RC enthusiasts and having us all suffer, they should be labeled as A-holes, RC aircraft notwithstanding and dealt with accordingly.

  35. As a club president I am being asked questions I don’t have answers for I just keep reading all I can find. I will will do what ever I need to to keep flying and try to maintain my club. My worry is our field is leased from the corp of enginers if we don’t comply with the FAA can they shut us down. I have several members that think we will be out of the rc flying as the government is trying to out law the hobby I think this is extream but I could be wrong.
    It is sad that a bunch of idiots buying quads don’t seem to care about the safty or privacy of others. As has been said these people wont regester and don’t care so we of the AMA pay the price. I have seen enough of this as a licend gun owner.
    I still have faith in the AMA but they are in a fight with big brother it’s David and Golith.

    1. I agree. If we don’t register, this will give more ammunition to those who want to shut the field down. Resistance is futile.
      To fly anything after Dec 21 without registering, how do I prove that I didn’t just buy it? (Other than the obvious repairs from multiple crashes.)

      1. If you register, you are FORFEIGHTING your RIGHTS to fly that Congress has given you, us and the AMA. If you all register, your signing the death certificate of rc model aviation. Once the FAA has all your names that they need after you register, they will immediately go before Congress to nullify the LAW that exempted us from ANY RULES and REGULATIONS and then the LAW will be changed in favor of the FAA, which means, they now have complete authority over ANY “aircraft” that is flying in NAS. So go ahead and sign up. You might want to start printing up For Sale signs and posting it on eBay because your aircraft and radios will be no longer of use to you…….

        1. You shouldn’t be flying in the “NAS” unregulated, unless you’re a pilot. You should be flying away from the NAS.

  36. I was worried the AMA was going to “go quietly” with all of this FAA foolishness. Thanks for supporting your members!

  37. Thank You AMA! I feel there is something wrong with having to register my toy aircraft when Ultra Light aircraft fly without registering, and pose a greater danger than my toy aircraft. Are we going to register toy RC cars too? Kites? Balloons? Fear of terrorism has gripped the American Government and everyone/everything is a threat. The payload of toy aircraft can and pose no threat to america! Government has gone off the tracks and has turned full NAZI!

  38. Gentlemen and you too AMA,I am told that the FAA has already today been in touch with my club executives. Once again we are going to be duped by a sleeping AMA and some very,very greedy bureaucrats (FAA). Like previously stated ……never give a govt run organization a chance to get a head start. The FAA has had plans for this for several years (carefully hidden of course). They actually sent want ads to several clubs in my area(not model related,just tech oriented) They said they had IMMEDIATE OPENINGS FOR TECH POSITIONS WITH A NEW PROJECT). The number of openings was quite large as only a government enterprise could field. They have been planning this expansion behind everyones back.

    AMA …dont drop the ball again! Lets make use of our sizeable membership and orchestrate a unified response to the FAA and Congess, because they only understand the power of numbers. PLEASE NO PC MEALY MOUTHED POLITE DRIBBLE. The words are numbers=votes .They understand that.
    Oh and BTW don’t aquiesce to any government requests for member information.

  39. Registration is not the problem, it’s the FAA’s redefining “model aircraft” as “aircraft”, thereby side-stepping sec 336 of the 2012 Act which then gives the FAA rule-making authority over hobby model aircraft. Then the FAA can regulate this hobby into extinction. So support the AMA and fight back with petitions and contacting your Congressman.

    1. Not only side-stepping sec 336 – they’re going completely around it. They’re not registering the model aircraft, they’re registering the OWNERS/OPERATORS of model aircraft. There’s nothing in 336 about that.

    2. If models are going to be classified as aircraft, then there will no longer be a need for the AMA. Technically we would all be held under FAA regulatory rules, if we’re flying FAA registered aircraft. All the clubs in my area do not allow flight without AMA membership, and I assume thats a common club requirement in most areas. The same people who are opposed to AMA registration will certainly not register with the FAA, so this entire debate should be done away with, as it is not going to fix any concerns that the government or the citizens have.

  40. And if we hold off, does AMA pay the $5 fee that we would save if we register right away?

    Thanks a lot, all you idiot drone fliers out there who ignore our chartered clubs and fly unsafely anywhere you please!

  41. This will be difficult at best.The FAA has inspectors with little or nothing to do.Where as once there was an active general aviation enterprise,it has all but vanished thanks to FAA heavy handed “help”.As this general aviation position shrank,there were FAA inspectors doing as much “policing” as they could in order to justify their employment.Flying became less than enjoyable.And I have flown for the love of it for 64 years.(I have flown model aircraft for 74 years) If the FAA can register all model aircraft flyers,their numbers base will be helped a small amount and their necessity insured.Really? Well,are they a Government Agency?..I rest my case. Will not be fun to go to the old flying field and have these people looking over your shoulder.And wait till you see the new regulations,a large book full in the first two weeks!!!Ugh.

  42. While I am in no way a supporter of the new FAA rules, as an enthusiast, I must say that the interpretation of UAV is what is the problem here, I think we can all agree that RC planes,helis, quads or anything else including model rocketry are unmanned, if the FAA argument is that ALL aerial vehicles including blimps or what not that are capable of reaching certain range and potentially cause havoc around events and airports holds water, then I don’t see how any argument will stop them, I certainly agree with many hobbyists that if this rule is not overturned it will eventually destroy the hobby, that’s my 2 cents, again I state I am no fan of the FAA or it’s rules and I’m very much opposed to the new rules, but I wanted to get the gist of my thought out there for percolating.

  43. Good to see the AMA taking a stronger stance. Seems unclear, though, how a legal action that has apparently lingered since August 2014 will address this. I would think this needs a court injunction to halt the FAA regulations, on the grounds of both Section 336 and the ridiculous “emergency”-rushed rulemaking process.

  44. Jim,

    [Most people will ignore the registration just as they do with gun registration.]

    It’s “slightly” easier to conceal a gun versus a giant scale RC plane buzzing overhead… 😉

    1. Someone flying a giant scale will be at a club flying site, even the FAA knows that. The issue is when someone waks into a hobby store and back out with a drone rtf and then goes and flys it into something and walks off.

  45. Well, it’s a big improvement over the last statement that “They are disappointed.” The FAA’s ruling failed in just about every way possible, starting with their database that will be managed by an “unnamed contractor” and charging money to register to said database will serve no purpose other than being abused. If they were serious, they would think about maybe a training requirement, or follow guidelines of the AMA who has been safely operating model aircraft for decades, or even a certificate you could print out to show the law enforcement officers who the FAA claim will be responsible for ensuring compliance to their arcane regulations and know just as much about FARs the idiot pilots who are already violating them with no consequence.

  46. Thanks, AMA. I know you are working hard on this. Having spent much of my life as an aviation professional, dealing with the FAA on many levels including flight department manager and managing the process of acquiring a jet charter certificate, that if we do not keep model airplanes exempt from the clutches of the FAA that out hobby will suffer grievously. The FAA does not let their employees fly on small aircraft and they have never had any understanding of general aviation. It has been very sad to see what they have done to general aviation over the last 30 years and I don’t want that to happen to those of us who fly models. What I fear most is the delegation of enforcement to local law enforcement. That will trigger responses from planning departments and getting a use permit, or keeping one for a flying field, will become next to impossible. Seeing the 400 foot rule get set in stone will be especially harmful to glider and SAM type flying.

    It is time for an all out battle, I fear. We have little to lose. Thinking you can get anywhere establishing a relationship with someone in the FAA is in most cases wishful thinking. There is always someone upstairs who will take a superficial look and make an arbitrary decision regardless of the people you can talk too. No FAA employee can stand against that bureacracy regardless of their good intent.

  47. Thankyou AMA !
    We all need to stick together on this critical issue that steps on our freedoms as Americans !

  48. Nice. I had suggested this almost verbatim in the public comments. Thanks for the support and good luck.

  49. The (fill in the blank) will always “cast the largest net” in making these new rules/ “laws”. They’ll wait to see how much “push back” they get from the public and then “amend” the rules to piss off a few less people and still look like they’ve “done something” to the public.

    If local law enforcement is tasked to enforce this then I pray that the FAA actually trains them as to what is legal/illegal, and what would be “probable cause”. Will I register, haven’t decided. I have flown my “evil-assault-quad copter” in my yard in the past. I fly both fixed wing and multi-rotors at my club field. If my club (which is AMA sanctioned) which enforces AMA membership also enforces registration then I guess I’ll just quit the AMA, club, and “discretely” hover in my back yard.

    I can’t wait until the first “delivery drone” goes off course (or something break, motor cease up, battery go dead, Lose GPS lock, hit a bird, get caught in the rain, etc, etc, etc) and crashes into somebody’s house, car…..

  50. I have serious issue with the AMA response time to their members. Those at the helm of AMA should have had a response the decision no matter which way it went. AMA is a business with land holdings, employees and responsibilities to its members. Amongst those responsibilies is keeping us informed. AMA got caught with its nether garments awry bysupporting the drone manufactures in print and the spoken word. They have more skin in the game than we. IMHO the best news to date is to delay regestration which has just enough civil disobedience in it to keep me interested. Not to go unmentioned is our most vulnerable asset, the frequencies on which we fly. They weren’t given to us without a fight by the AMA so they have some experience with fighting, and winning these disputes. So rock on AMA , I’m sure your not getting much sleep over this.
    Tom Ewing AMA8855

  51. What the FAA is attempting here is downright asinine. They freely admit it does not address the safety issue and have no legal stance given what Congress has mandated. There is no rationale to register most/any model aircraft with no autonomous or BVLOS capability whatsoever, as they have existed for 60/70/80 years with no problem and we all know it. Sad to see people advocating actively giving away freedom (and $) when surely they can see it serves no purpose.

    I’m very grateful to see the AMA doing the right thing here.

  52. What gets me is that a UAV/Quadcopter/Drone is not a model. Its not a scaled down version of anything else. None of my models have the ability to fly 10 plus miles away using FPV, NAZE, and other technology that breaks all the Line of Sight and AMA rules, So why are actual models being thrown together with drones. I’ve never heard anyone call my Corsair Gullwing a drone or UAV.

    I do agree that non-community member drones need to be registered as tens of thousands of new ones will be flying around on Christmas day in an unsafe manner way above 400 feet, over houses, people, and roads with their cameras running. But then again people flying like this will never register they will take it out the box get it charged and off they will go to capture video of their first crash to post on youtube.

  53. You know what’s ironic is here in OR. starting Jan 1st all drones will need to be registered with the state department of aviation, now I can’t say for sure, but drone by definition in most cases is any unmanned aircraft, but the ironic part is just last month I was expressing concern about where you can fly and about having to register with the state and this is the response I got on once local forum “By the end of the year, hopefully the FAA will publish some reasonable guidelines. In the mean time, most of what you read is speculation and nobody knows what’s what so we’re all doing what we’ve always done. Just go fly and be smart about it!” Another one mentioned the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 and told me as a recreational flyer I had nothing to worry about. You know what’s funny is that just last month the FAA said that Flying drones ‘for hobby’ won’t require you to get your drone approved with the FAA and common sense should be enough. “Having fun means flying safely! Hobby or recreational flying doesn’t require FAA approval but you must follow safety guidelines. Any other use requires FAA authorization.” “any other used” referring to commercial use? What the hell happened between then and the 14th? What is wrong with this “task force” are they schizophrenics?

  54. It seems to me that, because of ignorance, RC model aircraft pilots are allowing themselves to be snookered by FAA, with the help of AMA, into fulfilling a registration requirement that does NOT apply to the average recreational RC aircraft pilot.

    As usual, knowledge is power:

    In addition to the new FAA registration rule, there are two documents that you MUST read and understood to determine whether or not you are subject to the FAA registration requirement:

    The first is section 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft – FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012:
    https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf
    Special Rule 336 prohibits FAA rule making for model aircraft meeting five specific criteria. Does your model aircraft and piloting meet these criteria? If so, the FAA registration rule DOES NOT apply to you. This explains why those who have talked to FAA representatives and explained how they’re flying have been told they don’t need to register.

    The second document is the FAA official interpretation of Special Rule 336:
    https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf
    The FAA interpretation makes a clear distinction as to what constitutes “Visual Line of Sight” and what constitutes “Hobby or Recreational Purposes”.

    So, what are you waiting for? Go look ‘em up and read ‘em; I’ll wait! Now, with this in mind:

    If I’m standing at the flight-line of my local AMA sanctioned flying field performing amazing aerobatic feats with my Goblin 500 – being careful to maintain visual line-of-sight, and being careful not to exceed the (FAA mandated) 400-ft ceiling – my helicopter and my flying is NOT subject to the FAA registration rule. But as soon as I power-up my pod-racer quad, put on my FPV goggles and proceed to zoom around the trees beside the field – with no direct, unaided visual line-of-sight to the aircraft – my flying falls outside of the Special Rule 336 prohibition, and I’m now required to register with the FAA.

    Similarly; if I power up my GoPro equipped, GPS/gyro stabilized camera quad and proceed to record video and still pictures of the surrounding scenery for my personal use, again maintaining direct visual contact below 400′ AGL, my flying is strictly recreational and NOT subject to FAA registration. But if I then incorporate those pictures or videos into some sort of commercial presentation (probably including YouTube), I am no longer flying for “hobby or recreational purposes” and I am now subject to FAA registration.

    Got it? Now go out and have fun with your Yak, don’t worry about all the FAA registration uproar, and let the lawyers make some money disputing what’s right in front of their noses! Or you can be a sheeple and register anyway – you know – just in case? -waw-

    1. Yeah, that’s OK. However, for my own “defense” at my local flying field (not a “club” field) I’ve already printed both your links and carry them in a weather-resistant envelope with my flight box.

      And YES, I have been questioned a couple times about my “drone” being legal or not. I just hand them my prints to read for themselves.

    2. Very, very well said. My sentiments EXACTLY!

      Im willing to bet the doctors are going to be seeing an influx of patients suffering from anxiety disorder

      I ain’t worried about it. The only number I’m putting on my aircraft is Sec.336

      They ask for any thing else, I’m during anyone involved for harassment!!!

    3. In your example #1 your quad does not meet the FAA’s definition of a model aircraft – without a safety pilot that can take immediate control, the flight is prohibited.

      1. I believe FAA requires a safety observer, but not a safety pilot. There is a lot full-size aircraft flying done with only a single qualified pilot on-board. Some aircraft, like the Kaman K-Max 1200 Synchropter, are only single-seat.

        That being said, how many FPV quad gatherings have you been to where there’s even a single safety observer? Most of the ones I’ve been to, if you don’t have a bag full of props and spare clover-leafs you’re probably not even going to get through your first battery. The pilots are all sitting in folding chairs; FPV goggles in place; hunkered down over their radios like so many jedi padawans getting a feel for the force. No-one could intervene even if they wanted too. And – in the time-honored tradition of RC flyers the world over – those who are not flyin’ are mostly either fixin’ or BSn’.

        But NONE of them are creating any sort of safety-of-flight issue justifying an FAA mass registration – NONE! – waw –

  55. Well thanks to the AMA for throwing quad pilots under the buss. Multi-rotor aircraft is the future, and when we line up our industry and open (flight locations) I can assure you AMA members we’ll return the favor in kind.

    1. Quad pilots aren’t being thrown under the bus. There are several members at my club who fly quads, perfectly within the AMA regs and in a completely safe manner. Multirotors aren’t being singled out, the irresponsible pilots are. Flying at your home club falls within both Rule 336 and the FAA’s published interpretation of it.

      The people being thrown *under the bus* are those who got us into this mess, people just flying “Wherever” with no thought to safety or privacy. And even then it’s ignorance, not malice. A little education and a change in flight habits would turn this around.

  56. What I see happening here is that most all AMA registered pilots will follow the FAA guidelines for the FAA registration, if it is required. Those individuals that are not AMA, well, most all of them will likely register too. It is those few that don’t register and don’t have a “registration number” in their aircraft that will cause the forth coming further restrictions. Kinda like gun control, the good people get punished when bad people do stupid stuff with guns. No matter what laws are put into place, bad guys are still gonna have guns and bad pilots are still gonna violate airspace. My 2 cents.

    1. Which brings us full circle of why this whole FAA is an issue to begin with. The FAA needs to abide by the LAW that Congress has passed. They can interpret it any way they want. If i interpret the LAW of not having to put tags on my car, when in fact it’s the LAW that I must do so but don’t, that doesn’t change the LAW any. I can drive until I get caught and they issue a fine for not complying with the LAW. Same scenario with the FAA. They can interpret it any way they want. It DOES NOT change the LAW that Congress has passed. Plain and simply, if they don’t have to obey the LAW that Congress has passed, why should I have to comply with ANY RULES or regulations that they have. If I complied with the FAA’ registration process, I would be violating a FEDERAL LAW. Don’t some of you people understand this. So in essence, the FAA is threatening to fine and charge you with a Felony for abiding by a FEDERAL LAW that Congress has passed if you refuse to register. The LAW is LAWLESS. Federal law says I’m NOT bound by ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS according to Section 336. FAA is saying I better register, because if I don’t, I face severe fines and charges of a Felony. Sounds like EXTORSION and BRIBERY to me and the last I checked, thats a FELONY and against the LAW. Not to mention its DISCRIMINATION!!! FAA is committing Felonies and we as whole should be DEMANDING a Federal Prosecutor place charges against those who are responsible!!!!!!!

  57. If the FAA really wants to resolve safety concerns over separation of models from full sized aircraft, which makes sense and I agree with, the technology already exists in the altitude limiting electronics used in ALES (Altitude Limited Electronic Soaring) events. It’s a small electronic device that limits altitude by shutting off the motor at a preset altitude. That circuitry could easily be built in to the receivers. If mandated by law, all receivers would be required to have that kind of altitude limit built in to be legally operated in U.S. airspace. In that case, vertical separation would occur automatically, regardless of the operators ignorance or intent.

    1. Actually, given that the overwhelming majority of manned flight takes place at 500′ AGL and above, the easier way to do this is to put in place blanket operational restrictions, for example: no flight above 400’AGL anywhere; no flight within lateral limits of class B, C, or D airspace or within 5nm of hospitals with a heliport, etc.

      Would you prefer operational restrictions to this minor administrative measure?

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