As you know, we have been working with our legal counsel and the FAA to find a solution for our members on the registration rule. To date, FAA has agreed in principle to several proposed initiatives that will help ease this process for our members. Specifically, they are:
- AMA and the FAA are working to streamline the registration process for AMA members whereby those who register with the FAA will be able to use their AMA number as the primary identification on their model aircraft, as opposed to adding a new federal registration number.
- In addition, AMA members’ federal registration will automatically renew provided membership remains active and current. We are working with FAA in negotiating the renewal fee, but in any case it is envisioned the renewal process will be provided as a member benefit.
- In the future, federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA, eliminating the need to register with both AMA and the FAA.
These initiatives are a step in the right direction. However, we want to emphasize that this is not the end of our efforts to protect AMA members from this overreaching regulation. We are continuing to explore all legal and political options available, but these conversations may take time and a definitive solution is unlikely before the February 19 registration deadline.
Currently, registration is free of charge until January 19. If you would like to take advantage of this free period, you may want to register before that day. But please note that you have until February 19 to register in order to avoid violating the federal rule. You can register at https://faadronezone.faa.gov/#/.
We also want to encourage our members to submit comments to the FAA about the registration rule. It is critical that all AMA members are heard loud and clear on this issue. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday, January 15. Additional instruction is available here.
Thank you for your patience as we work to find the best path forward on registration. We are committed to doing everything possible to protect our hobby and ensure that future generations have the opportunity to fly.
[…] https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/ama…-registration/ You will use your AMA number. Success! However, they should not state that you will be violating FAA rules if you register after Feb 19. That is not true, you can take as long as you want. You are not in violation till after you actually fly the unregistered model. However, I will never register. Glow Head Brotherhood #15 Reply With Quote […]
This is not clear guidance. “… solution is unlikely before 19 February deadline”, “… you may want to register before that day” (in reference to 19 January free registration deadline). What is the AMA recommending its members do? Previously there was a clear message to wait until 19 February.
“…those who register with the AMA will be able to use their AMA number…” How will this happen if we must register by 19 February before this is in place?
I really hope the AMA can do better than the initiatives described above – and perhaps more importantly, prior to 19 February.
Logistical hurdles may prevent a resolution with the FAA from being finalized before February 19. We do not want to give false hope things will be buttoned up before February 19, therefore we are suggesting members register. With that being said, this issue is not over and there will be more progress.
I have to second this as not being clear guidance. You need to clearly state what members need to do NOW. Then you need to lay out what you hope to negotiate with the FAA.
What should members be doing now:
Register with the FAA.
Follow FAA sUAS marking guidelines. (Place FAA number on/in sUAS)
AMA negotiation wish list:
Everything else in your post.
I find myself shaking my head with the way that the AMA has handled the proliferation of FPV’s and Quad copters. I own a 4 rotor quad copter I bought back in may 2015 , I am a AMA member and on the board of our local wonderful flying club.
I sent the AMA an email back in Sept with the following thoughts:
First I felt the AMA should establish a definition for what is a “DRONE”. I felt a drone should be any aircraft that breaks or exceeds the the AMA’s basic rules. 1. flys over 400 feet 2. flys outside line of site 3. weights over 55 lbs
Next the AMA should have drawn a line in the sand and stated that after a future date the above defined Drones are not permitted or covered at any of our 2400+ fields. I would gladly give up the right to not fly my quad at my field in order to preserve and protect our hobby.
Next as we are finding out the 185000+ AMA members are the only ones being impacted right now , I asked my local hobby shop how they were handling the registration of all the aircraft they were selling there answer: “We just sell them it’s up to the buyers to register” If you believe the numbers perhaps over 1 million. This legislation is preaching to the CHOIR . For example I would compare it to “requiring” law enforcement to register their personal weapons and telling the public at large that if you get caught with a non registered weapon you are in big trouble.
I dread the day when we find some local news station showing up at the gate of one of our fields because something very bad happened by someone flying a “Drone”. and using us as b-roll and insinuating “Look what you guys did”
like every thing else, what has really happened to our hobby is technology When most of today’s AMA members were learning to fly it took much time and money to master the basics today the drone type aircraft can be mastered by most anyone in short order no field needed. Good for sales, bad I guess for our hobby.
At this point I have no answers. I still believe that Drones need to be defined we can’t put the technology genie back in the bottle. Where will these problems be 2 or 3 years from now?
Excellent post. I really like your take on “Drone” classification. The idea that a “Drone” has to be 55 lbs. or more is how the class should work. Certainly not .5 lbs. and up. Holy smokes! A half a bloody pound. Who came up with that?
I may be taking way too much of a chance with the astronomical fines and all, but at this point, I will NOT register my TREX 450 or my TDR. Even if the TDR weighs in more than three or four pounds I don’t care. I fly ONLY on school ball fields and never fly out of my line of sight. Also I never fly over a couple hundred feet. What and who am I hurting? No-one of course.
We’ve got to stop caving in to all these governmental attacks on our freedom. I don’t want to get off the subject, but myriad regulations were not what our forefathers had in mind when they wrote the constitution. Liberty can be dangerous. But really. How much damage can you cause with a half pound rc aircraft? If you only fly at schools, fields, or club sites, the answer is, not much.
Resistance is NOT futile. Resist Now, Resist Always.
It’s pretty simple to understand. If you want your registration fee refunded you must register before Jan 19th, however, the deadline for registration is Feb 19th. The AMA initially suggested we wait until Feb 19th deadline because they were negotiating with the FAA. As a result of these negotiations, it appears a resolution is unlikely before the federal registration deadline.
How nice !
The AMA inaction has placed us in the FAA gunsights and heaped new restrictions upon us . Now the AMA places themselves to profit from their inaction while still supporting the droniacs !
Looks like I have finally found a great reason to leave the AMA . They left model aviation when they embraced FPV/Drones !
It looks to me that the AMA is back peddling on this , the last email from them now says if you want to collect on the free registration the go ahead and register …
what about chapter 336 , i have been flying rc for 43 years and i hope the AMA is not going to just go with this registration process to make them a needed part of the hobby by giving in to the FAA……very sad,,,,remember do your part and talk to the Buzzards and the Geese to let them now to register
What really troubles me is the fact that AMA suggested we withhold of registering until told to do so then when they did tell us to, it was past the FREE registration period, January 19th. I’m not complaining about the cost of $5 to register but I am complaining about the piss-poor guidance AMA gave me/us. $5 isn’t going to bankrupt any of us but it’s the point that I was told to hold off while the FREE registration period was in effect then, when the fee based registration took effect, the AMA suggested we register. I think AMA should credit all of us members $5 on our next renewal!
Are you making sure that FAA does not make it mandatory to be members of AMA just to fly above 400′ and rather just comply with AMA safety guidelines?
The Federal government would not allow that to be mandated. The intent of 336 was to protect the hobby from regulation, promote safety, and separate models from full scale aviation.
AMA has an amazing safety record, but unfortunately there are pilots outside of our community who are not flying safely. Congress’ intent is to protect models from regulation, but they will not provide a blanket exemption to all modelers – only those who abide by an established safety code.
While that’s AMA’s opinion now, as you said in another post, AMA will not certify, inspect etc. under PL112-95 section 336 (a)(3) unless you’re a member. So to enjoy this privilege in the PUBLIC airspace, I have to be a member of a private dues collecting organization. I contacted my Senator’s office today, shared my question and quoted your response. They said they would be reaching out to FAA and the Transportation Subcommittee on AMA’s actions with respect to this section of the law.
Can you define “PUBLIC” airspace. I am only familiar with the National Airspace as defined by the FAA.
Synonym, as in “public airspace, waterways, or roads.” Was the essence of my letter to FAA. Nowhere else is a private dues collecting organization acting as a gatekeeper for access to something owned by the citizens. RIGHT NOW the AMA says you don’t have to be a member to comply with section (a)(2), but do have to be a member to comply with section (a)(3). What happens if AMA changes their mind in the future?
I argued to FAA that the AMA should not even be permitted to require membership in (a)(3).
If the AMA is so altruistic with respect to hobby fliers as they contend, then I’d think they’d be more than happy to inspect non-member aircraft to ensure they’re safe.
AMA needs to understand that NON COMMERCIAL Uas are EMEMPT from ANY RULES AND REGULATIONS PROMULGATED BY THE FAA!!!
And yes, that means NOT having to register with the FAA because a RC aircraft is considered a hobby and flown for recreational use ONLY!
If your flying your uas rc aircraft for COMMERCIAL reasons, then yes, YOU DO NEED TO REGISTER WITH THE FAA!!!
I think it’s beyond pathetic how the AMA is trying to “streamline” the registration “process”!
News ALERT AMA! The very thing you got passed by Congress by the Special Rule for Model Aircraft in Section 336 exempted rc model aircraft from ANY rules and regulations promulgated by the FAA, and yes, this means requiring one to Register with the FAA!!!
If one is flying rc aircraft commercially, then, and only then, you are REQUIRED to REGISTER!!!
If your flying strictly because its your hobby and its for recreational purposes ONLY, one is NOT required to register with the FAA!!!
So please tell me, WHY IS THE AMA TRYING TO STREAMLINE REGISTERING WITH THE FAA???
Seems to me the AMA is not even recognizing the very LAW that they lobbied Congress for. Which means, the AMA isn’t even being transparent with its own members. Sounds like fraud to me. Tell me it isn’t so!
Please clarify, if a non AMA member is following the AMA safety code would they be exempt and able to fly over 400ft?
Please understand that the main objections to registering are the searchable (in the very near future) database with our names, addresses, and plane numbers, the registration required credit card (source of identity and personal data theft), and the potential for our members becoming subject to prosecution inadvertently or through malicious overactive prosecution. In addition, your assertion that the 400 foot restriction is protected by the section 336 reg ignores the nullification already done by the FAA to the immunity to regulation of model planes. In order to register, one must promise to abide by all the rules including the 400 ft. restriction. If one section has been nullified, the rest is in real danger. We sailplane fliers have no hobby if 336 is nullified. So far the AMA’s response is underwhelming. The future of this excellent hobby (and the AMA) is in serious jeopardy. Please do not surrender or compromise!
There are AMA pilots who do not fly safely. There are pilots who are not members of AMA that do fly safely. Paying a membership fee doesn’t mean you fly safe. And the AMA seems to currently be more concerned with leveraging the regulations to benefit the organization and make registration convenient for members rather than with protecting the hobby as a whole. And the hobby as a whole, including the AMA and its members, is going to be worse off because of this approach.
Like I said before. Take a note from the NRA. See how they fight for all firearm enthusiasts against all 2nd Amendment encroachment. They don’t just fight to make regulations more convenient for their members. And because of that, their membership continues to expand.
You don’t have to look far on the RCU pages to find “waiver holders” joking about the 200MPH airspeed limit. If violating the rules was not a problem, why would AMA offer a radar gun to CDs? If it wasn’t a problem, why would first class people like BV write letters encouraging waiver holders to follow the rules? Why would he and others comment that AMA is loathe to enforce on members violating rules if those violations are not happening?
Bottom line is that AMA knows there’s a number of its members that do not comply.
Ficus is exactly correct, the way this article is currently worded basically demonstrates that the AMA is trying to add benefit/induce people to join the AMA rather than fighting for the actual issues. Come on little kid, pay us and you don’t have to worry about registration because we’ll do it for you.
Point is I don’t want my address sitting out on a public database and this rule making does nothing to actually address flying unsafely.
I would like to point out how much i hate vague laws. Exactly how can someone be sure exactly how high they are off the ground with out an altimeter? Yet you are required on the faa site to agree not to fly above it? So staying in the legal confines is left to guess work? This is like agreeing to go no faster than 12.8mph in your vehicle that doesnt have a speedometer! I can see mandatory telemetry in the near future. Exactly what is this supposed to stop? None of the 911 terrorists had a pilots license? So all the law abiding members will register and the guy who buys a drone at best buy will still run out and fly over a major airport after one to many beers and a dare from his frat brothers.
If we don’t register by 2/19/16, and we don’t fly, will the AMA ultimately register us when they get that worked out with the FAA or does that only work for new members?
I too am waiting for an answer from the AMA on your question. My flying buddies and I are expecting the AMA to register members hopefully without having to share our personal information with the FAA. From the gist of how these comments are going, I shouldn’t hold my breath.
I think it’s crazy for us who fly at an AMA sanctioned field, where the members of a rc club , that requires all members that fly ,must be registered with AMA , IN ORDER TO FLY AT SAID FIELD, to register again with the FAA. The FAA can access all member info through the AMA website. I think it’s silly.
Even more silly that I cannot fly my RC heli on my property 50 miles from the nearest airport without a permission slip from the government. And don’t believe that this isn’t a permission based system. The FAA can elect to deny or revoke your registration at any time. Of course by then, they know where you are and what you are flying.
Am I paranoid and expecting a Waco style assault? No, but every regulation has the potential for abuse.
Piss off your ex-spouse who knows you fly RC planes, they look up your FAA information through FOIA and they find your registration has expired, pull out their iphone to video you flying and then file a felony complaint against you. That’s how regulations turn citizens into felons. Oh, and buy the way for those who support the 2nd amendment, now that you are a felon for flying an RC plane on your property; you are no longer allowed to own or purchase a gun.
The whole this is stupid! Do they (FAA) seriously think that those who are not AMA members are going to register with them?? They are punishing the wrong people. No kid that goes to some toy store and buys the latest “iDrone” or whatever is going to register with the FAA. Furthermore, they’re the ones that will most likely be flying unsafely and not at an AMA sanctioned flying field… So what, are the FAA cops going to be driving around at parks and through neighborhoods busting violators?? They can’t even keep commercial airlines in check with their regulations…
We all agree Thomas, thats why we need to keep up our support- write/e-mail your congressmen and senators, write to the local newspaper editor- the AMA and its membership have a better safety record than the FAA. The public needs to be aware of the fact that WE are not the problem and this govrnment overreach will do nothing to alleviate it. Contact your gov’t officials.
I’m a none US resident AMA member, so i can’t register on FAA, what to do now? since i can not register, I will not be able to fly at any event in the US like IRCHA Jambore!!
I do not think they care where you live. It is ridiculously simple to register. You need to give them a credit card number and matching address. They charge $5 then give it back (if before Jan 21).If anybody does not want “big brother” knowing the address of an RC model owner, and if If you have a friend who will register for you with their own address and Credit Card, But with YOUR NAME, You will get a registration number assigned to your name.
If I had thought this out, I would have just gotten a prepaid credit card for like $25. It would work especially if it had an address assigned to it. I really do not think it matters where you live. Let’s say you live in Spain, I see no reason why it would not go through so you could have a number associated with your real name in case they ever start inspections at AMA RC fields.
We can not avoid it. I was delaying because of all of the AMA advisories. I also thought I would have to give descriptions of all my models, size, power, radio, etc., Which I thought would be time consuming. Nope. They just tell you the same rules that are already in effect, and make you check off that you will comply. Then issue you a number with your name attached to it, and printable card good for 3 years.
I hate doing it because it is too much of what we fear about the government accusing us of false crimes. Our names go on a database. No proof of what plane or receiver we are using, which would clear our names if somebody else did something irresponsible and caused harm near our registered addresses. Just an acknowledgement we will not fly over 400 ft elevation, which is pretty ridiculous since I live at a ground level of 2,800 feet already.
The AMA is doing a great job representing us with the FAA in this matter, Thanks, keep up the good work!
As a club officer, We need to pass something along to our members in a timely manner. There was firm, well published, and clear advice from AMA regarding holding off registration with the FAA. With only a week remaining until the deadline, would it be in the members interest to pass along the same type of firm statement regarding registration. The current statement seems far less definitive to some of our member who have read it, and are now looking to our club officers for advice.
AMA comments are not clear.
Are you saying to go ahead and register with FAA?
Is the “hold off registering until Feb 19” no longer applicable?
Will AMA dues increase to cover $5 registration fee?
For those that register, do we use the FAA number and then switch to AMA number later?
This is a confusing AMA communication.
The BIG number 400′ is prominent on the attachment to the Certificate. There’s nothing there that says we AMA sailplane members have an exception.
Sure we can kind of mumble and stutter about being under the Code of a National CBO, but please “Show us the money”.. provide us with something in writing to confirm that we still own our little sections of heaven.
AMA Club President
AMA Contest Director
RC Soaring Columnist
I agree,telling a LEO that I am protected by “By Section 336, as a CBO member” isn’t going to cut it. And my Xplorer 3.8 will be tossed in a Police car as “evidence”.
I want to see something from the FAA in writing that this 400′ restriction is not the law, or have it removed from the attachment to the Certificate.
As a Commercial Pilot I don’t want my Airmans Certificate put at risk either.
Thanks for doing what you could AMA. Looks like the FAA can do whatever it pleases,end of discussion. So I am going to register, and I will use the “N” that they assign to me, NOT MY AMA NUMBER. Just let it go AMA,it’s all over except the shouting.
Let’s all register and let the FAA feel like they’ve accomplished something to make our national airspace a safer place, which they haven’t.
And when I say all, I of course refer to all of the AMA members who will more than likely be the only people registering. Why?,because we follow the rules and the law.
And because we’re aware of it, unlike the Walmart employee in the electronic department selling Dji drones,who, when I asked about FAA registration, had no idea what I was referring to. That was two days ago.
None of his customers will likely register, nor will the multitudes of current drone users, especially the ones doing the stupid things with their drones that have brought all of this this upon us,the responsible R/C community.
Just a damned minute here. I do not want to be automatically registered with FAA just because I am an AMA member. If it comes to having to register with FAA I want them to give me their number. In no way do I want my AMA number to be the identifier for these overreaching…. Nor do I want them to have automatic access to AMA’s list of members.
If they find my runaway a/c with my AMA number they can call the phone number that is with it. What is so hard about using their number for this crap? At least I have control of when I want to be registered with their number. Have you all forgotten how important registration numbers were to Nazi Germany? Is there any difference here? AMA, you are real close to losing a member here. The real question is why we should have to register at all with FAA if we are an AMA member.
Thank you for all your efforts and time invested in fighting for our hobby.
I for one appreciate everything the AMA is doing to work through the governmental issues.
Is there a way to register with the FAA now, and use our AMA number?
It’s never enough with the Feds until they say it’s enough. As long as I am not flying I am not in violation of any law. It’s not illegal to own an rc plane yet. YET.
Basically your bullet points indicate that the AMA accepts the FAA ruling and in the future by joining the AMA it will become a conduit for the information the FAA wants? What happened to AMA’s position on the legal aspect whereby the FAA circumvented congress? Can you give us an update on who in congress the AMA has met with and what is their position in seeing that the rule will be vacated? Don’t you think that the AMA should have contacted each and every congress person via visit, e-mail, registered letter, phone, carrier pigeon and every other device of communication to rally their support? Why can’t the AMA use its resources and partner with those who are taking legal action? Right now the only person I have seen in the news challenging this legally is the the attorney in Maryland. This update seems less then enthusiastic in the abolition of the rule.
It really has the appearance that the AMA, rather than legally opposing the regulations based on the prohibition congress made against regulating model aircraft; it using the opportunity to swell membership roles by incorporating AMA membership as a function of the registry.
The FAA regulation is based on a fantastical interpretation of the 2012 FAA Modernization Act which is in direct opposition to the intent of congress. With enough lawyers, you can make up an interpretation that fits any agenda (or debate what the meaning of is is).
The AMA now needs to interpret the intent of their dues paying membership which is for this organization to keep federal regulations at arms length and protect this hobby rather than looking to the government as an AMA registry agent.
I remember back in the 70s we had to have a citizens band license (CB) for our RC transmissions. I was more than happy to comply to fly my gliders in local contests. A buddy of mine wanted to fly at the Nats as a team on the same Ham band frequency ,we could spot and time for each other. I was happy to spend the time and money to get the license. When 2.4 GHz gear came on the market and we were told to fly at the Nats you’re going to need new radios, we coughed up the money. If all we’re talking about here is spending $5 and posting another number in our planes, what’s the big deal. I’d do it in a New York minute to go on flying my gliders. Oh, and I plan to fly over 400 feet as a launch alone is well over 500.
It is not the money but the over regulation of our lives. This sort of creeping regulation inhibits our liberty. It is $5 for all aircraft now, but you do realize they wanted to register each model originally right? Do you think they’ve given up on that? And it’s $5 now… how about if they raise that to 20 or 100? Further, with the government’s record of keeping our data safe… what then? And now you MUST have a credit/debit card to fly.
Sadly, this will ultimately impact children. Rather than being something fun for youth, it will be laden with red tape. Or more likely, be a potential for more fines and harassment.
This illegal regulation is unnecessary and will be ineffective.
I have maintained my AMA membership for approx +25 years. I Have flown at sanctioned fields and complied with all AMA safety requirements and flight rules. I feel like I am registered. I feel like people who fly drones are not RC hobbiest and should treated as a separate participants. They don’t construct from traditional hobby materials, they just maybe assemble from a box. Any person with a “buck” can purchase a drone go in their backyard or local park and cause a problem. I feel that operation space should be the registration determination. If you can take off and land in your own footprint then you need to register. As an FAA safety footnote, It is very interesting that hand held Laser’s that interfere with flight operations are not required to be registered.
Under these principles, will our personal information be given to the FAA and stored in their database along with the AMA database?
I appreciate the rapid feedback from the AMA Expo and the update on the measurable progress the AMA has made working with the FAA on the registration issue. I remain unconvinced that the FAA can be trusted to fully carry out the spirit of any of these agreements.
DoT Secretary Anthony Foxx pushed through the interim rule using a specious claim of “good cause” to bypass the legally required rule making process. Any changes would be an admission by the FAA that “good cause” was not justified and would support John A. Taylor’s case in Taylor v. Huerta. That case alleges that the registration Interim Final Rule violates of the Administrative Procedure Act. Mr. Taylor’s petitioner’s brief is due January 27, 2016.
I urge the AMA to petition to extend the comment period for the registration IFR (docket number FAA-2015-7396) based on the changes to the registration process to which the FAA is said to have agreed. The comment period should be extended to allow for public input on those changes. Extending the comment period would be a show of good faith by the FAA.
I urge the AMA to fully endorse Mr. Taylor’s case against the FAA. The IFR is not about registering sUAS because they are “aircraft”. It is about “having a national registry of folks who are owners of drones and users of drones”, as DoT Secretary Anthony Foxx openly admitted when pressed by reporters in the news conference held October 19, 2015. The IFR’s purpose is to provide a mechanism for the FAA to assert criminal intent on the part of sUAS operators, thereby greatly expanding the their enforcement options. More importantly, it provides a means by which the FAA can threaten extreme punishment to coerce responsible operators who were tricked into checking the “intent” box using the FAA’s web based registration process.
AMA members who are interested in learning more about Mr. Taylor’s case can find information in this January 4th Forbes article by John Goglia:
Those wishing to support Mr. Taylor may contribute to his legal fund here:
Amongst your proposed initiatives you included the prospect of using the AMA number for registration of UAS. Should we wait until the decision is made before we register with the FAA?
I never gave the AMA permission to share my info with the FAA, I was never asked, and I don’t appreciate the AMA deciding to share member info without expressed consent. I have been a member of the AMA for almost 10 years now, and after seeing how this FAA crap has unfolded, I am really thinking I will be terminating my membership. The AMA represents 180,000 members, that is .00056% of the population, and in the big picture, we are a minority on this “Drone” issue, and I don’t see membership with the AMA as any kind of benefit.
FYI, sharing of the data without your permission may be a violation of identity theft and/or protection of personally identifiable information statutes in a number of states.
As far as I can tell, ALL of the local model aircraft fields, fall within “Restricted” zones
As a result, they have been rendered useless, and there is no place to fly
Why should anyone sign up for this nonsense if there isn’t any place for them to fly legally?
I was a little confused reading today’s message with regard to this Q/A from the FAQs:
Q: I only fly CL or FF, do I need to register?
A: No. If you exclusively fly FF or CL and never plan on using a model that involves a transmitter, then you do not need to register.
So, as a CL only flyer, do I still go ahead and register assuming things will not be worked out by the deadline?
I urge the AMA to continue to pursue a total exemption of FAA registration for AMA members. I am awaiting news of that success, then I will renew my AMA membership, not before. In the meantime I am in discussions with my Congressional representative, who has taken an interest in this issue. I would urge all AMA members to CALL their Congressmen – which is much more effective then emailing.
Gig Harbor, WA
Why doesn’t the AMA simply instruct the ENTIRE membership to NOT register as an act of civil disobedience? If more than 185 thousand AMA members intentionally did not register, the FAA would have to take notice and drop the entire requirement.
Completely agree with the approach commented “The AMA simply instruct entire membership to not register” this coupled with class action suit in the federal appellate court.
The FAA has clearly over reached it’s authority & is in direct conflict with the Congresses FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 Section 336. Congress provides the FAA authority to set regulation.
If this were the military Congress clearly out ranks the FAA & the FAA would likely be court marshaled for insubordination. Why would the AMA support this direct FAA disobedience by recommending it’s members register with the FAA & in the future automatically register it’s members? Very disappointed in this approach.
When will ALL AMA members get together and go to Washington to raise hell? When will we ALL stand up to Washington and stop ALL this crap that is hurting our nation? Illegal immigration for just a start. WE ARE SHEEPLE! We whine, bitch, moan and groan but guess what? We FALL IN LINE! The old motto of “United We Stand, and Divided We Fall” applies now more than ever! We need to STAND UNITED and raise HELL at the FAA’s door and at the White House and Congress. If that means we have to get in our cars, trucks, motorhomes, etc., and physically drive down there and raise Hell… then we need to do that. There has to be a STOP to all this BIG GOVERNMENT over-regulation of everything! There are now laws for everything. Even your toilet. The amount of each flush is regulated. There is ALWAYS a seemingly good reason for each law… but each and every law only chips away at our freedom. The “Land of The Free and Home of The Brave?” Not anymore. More like the “Land of The Slave and The Home of The Sheeple!
Is there someway to actually see the registration form and all conditions and what I would be agreeing too, before I set up an account and log into the FAA site?
Thomas – AMA does not sanction fields. They are a memebership organization that, among other things, provides insurance to those members who fly in accordance with its safety code. Many clubs require AMA membership so as to be sure all members have such insurance in order to fly at that field.
All that said, the FAA controls the national air space. They are the so-called 800 pound gorilla in this scenario (as in where does an 800-pound gorilla sleep….anywhere it wants to). Remember the golden rule: Them that has the gold makes the rules. FAA makes the rules, however silly (or legal) they may be. AMA is doing its part to protect its members from the overbearing FAA. It can only do so much.
(Note – other than being a member of the AMA, I am not an officer or otherwise represent them in this struggle. The opinions expressed above are mine and not any so-called party line. Although, they happen to be correct! 🙂 )
Are AMA clubs responsible to ensure their members are compliant with the FAA UAS registration? Or are AMA clubs simply responsible to educate (via meetings, minutes, newsletters, website) club members on the FAA UAS registration requirement?
I live on 160 acres and do all of my flying there. I will NOT be registering nor do I plan on renewing my AMA. Catch me if you can, I’ll take my chances. I play by the rules Uncle Scam can kiss it
What happened to all the other upset peoples comments from the 11th?? CENSORSHIP???
I believe the model airplane hobbyists thought AMA was trying to keep airplanes and drones separate, and my hobby would be exempt from government over reach by not having to register my electric piper cub park flyer. why did AMA reverse their position on this?
Those last two bullet-points (automatic federal registration, on renewing with/joining the AMA) mean that I am ABSOLUTELY going to let my membership lapse. I don’t want to be registered. I accept that by doing so, there’s a hard 8.8 oz. weight limit. Inconvenient, but that’s the law. FINE. If in the end, this goes all Soviet Russian, and I can only fly indoors, or not at all, or whatever stupidity comes up next, then that will stink, BUT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, I DO NOT WANT TO BE REGISTERED AUTOMATICALLY!
This has nothing to do with registration being “too hard”, or not wanting to put an extra number on my plane, or $5 fees. It is simply that I do not want my personal information entered into a publicly-searchable database of ‘prime suspects’, with no safeguards against 3rd-party misuse of one’s official, government-issued ID number, just to be allowed to play with toy airplanes. (I’ve been in this hobby most of my life, and derived great enjoyment from it, but in the end, they’re still just toy airplanes.)
To be blunt: if you (the AMA) enact automatic registration with the FAA on renewal, with no option to opt out of said automatic registration, you will not see another cent from me.
And why did the AMA spend a million dollars to lobby Congress?
More Government control! Cant do this and cant have that!
And all we do is sit back and watch them take our freedoms away!
Doesnt look like the AMA is going to do us any good either.
I guess I will cancel my membership and go find a new hobby!
I wonder what Maynard hill would do??? Those records will now stand unchallenged.
At least by today, the FAA eliminated the agreement check box page promising that you will not do things like fly above 400 ft. The FAA is still requiring us to display their number on our models, however. Looks like I will wait a little while longer.
BTW, paper registration is inappropriate for models. Many of our engines and motors do not have serial numbers, for instance, yet we are supposed to supply them. Similarly, we need to invent serial numbers for our kit- and scratch-built airplanes, as well as giving newly designed scratch-builts a name.
I don’t know how public this registration information is going to be, but a member of my club told me today he registered 2 days ago and got an unsolicited email today from a concern trying to sell him pilot insurance. His only connection to aviation is his AMA membership and FAA registration. I thought it an interesting coincidence. Call your congressman; if you don’t do anything don’t whine about the AMA not doing anything.
Is the AMA doing anything to support the fellow who is suing the FAA over this?
Check this out if you haven’t seen it.
Of course, the article is written in such a way that it sounds like its all about drones only, see my comments below the article.
So if my R/C planes are considered aircraft, why do I have to be 5 miles away from an airport?
Why, if my R/C airplanes are considered aircraft, can’t I fly from an airfield or airport like all the other aircraft?
There is a bigger gorilla than the FAA here, its call Congress and they have the Special Rule for Model Aircraft. That is the law and the FAA hasn’t got the right to change it. My prediction is that they’ll go after all the low hanging fruit. Instead of the irresponsible flyers out there, they’ll be checking out all the club fields first to make sure we have our FAA numbers on our aircraft, if not, out with the fines.
If nothing else, the AMA is coming across as a bunch of wimps, or worse, using this as a tool to increase membership at our expense
My biggest complaint is for those that have planes larger than 55lbs… they need to register them like a real plane. This is NUTS! I am sorry AMA, this is one that you should have been able to do something about. Maybe they need a different waiver, but they are not real planes. Very disappointed…
I am fuming mad about this over reach the FAA has done regarding the new rule for UAS registration. And YES! The AMA needs to take examples from the NRA by not giving an inch because they (the FAA) will walk all over them. Probably too late because AMA did not take the stance from the beginning.
ABSOLUTLY NO REGISTRATION PERIOD THE END!
I refuse to call our models “aircraft” because THEY ARE NOT AIRCRAFT! THEY ARE MODELS!!
Every news broadcast I see as well as the FAA’s own registration web site shows nothing but pictures of MULTI-ROTORS giving the illusion to the UNKNOWING public that multi-rotors are what is targeted by this registration AND IT’S NOT!
IT IS VIRTURALLY EVERY MODEL THAT CAN FLY USING RADIO CONTROL.
The FAA’s decision to throw THIS HUGE NET encompassing virtually every model flown by a hobbyist just shows how deep the FAA has their head up their behind and just how ignorant they are to the hobby.
This issue has only been raised by the handful of idiots and some highly publicized multi-rotors that crashed in stadiums most likely flown by a commercial pilot under the rule of the FAA.
WRITE AND CALL EVERYONE YOU CAN!
STAND AND FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOMS! Flying a model is not a privilege gracefully allowed by the FAA. It’s part of being an American living in a free country pursuing our dreams.
I feel your pain buddy. You are NOT alone.
The AMA board and leadership will be walking the halls of Capitol Hill in a couple weeks. We are also considering a Congressional campaign that would allow hobbyist to easily engage their legislators with key talking points.
Chad, please, enough with the “we’re doing this/we’re doing that” as I stated in my comment below, just admit you guys blew it. If you truly believe we are protected by the special rule and didn’t plan on caving in to the FAA, you guys would have told us, under no uncertain terms “Do not register, ever! We’ll take care of this for you.” I mean, its what we pay you for.
I’d also like to know how it is that ONE PERSON in Maryland has done the right thing for our community by filing suit against the FAA but the AMA whose job it is to protect us hasn’t?! Maybe if the AMA as a large organization could at least match what this one person is doing to protect us, we’d believe your actually trying to protect us.
A little too late for that isn’t it? Should have been putting links to the Senators offices a LONG TIME AGO!Of course now you talk this after the damage is done and its getting beyond past fixable! Kiss this hobby good bye my friend. I suppose the old saying is true, if you want something done right the first time, its best to do it yourself. So, I will be contacting some lawmakers and lawyers myself then. It’s not looking too pretty my friend. Thanks for trying though, unfortunately AMA didn’t try hard enough…………..
After thinking about possible positives to this new view the FAA has about our models.
Everyone think about this. The FAA has determined our models to be aircraft. As aircraft, I demand access to all uncontrolled airspace in the national airspace
system for flying my aircraft. Just like ultralight aircraft have flying their unregistered aircraft around. Also demand access to all uncontrolled non-towered airports for use of the facilities. Runways, taxi ways, clear flying space again just as an ultralight aircraft is granted. Also want access to a hangers at airport for storing my registered aircraft.
After all “we” have the ultimate ultralight aircraft at this point.
I think this may be looking good for us…
Then should we assume that you are volunteering to suffer the same consequences of a mid-air collision as those who fly manned aircraft? Might want to think about that for a moment.
I could easily maintain separation from aircraft just as I do while flying real full scale aircraft under visual flight rules(VFR). There is no air traffic control tower at the majority of airports around the country and pilots maintain separation by line of sight. Besides, a lot of the local airports aren’t busy anymore because FAA rules have driven prices to the point people can’t afford to fly. A basic four cylinder aircraft engine cost $20,000 to overhaul now days…
I agree, I want access. Years ago I was able to learn this hobby in many places – schoolyards, undeveloped land, baseball fields. Over the years, “sorry you can’t fly here.” Now that I am going to be registered what changes? The FAA states no national parks and things like that but have not mentioned schoolyards. Ya, bring back the schoolyards – I’ll show the local law enforcement my registration card and everything will now be fine :>(
Nobody likes this unlawful overeach more than me, we need to support the folks at the AMA. I’m pretty sure they are trying to view every angle of this, and trying to make a better effort than the FAA did! Keep writing your congressmen and senators! Most of the US has inclement weather right now- take the time to make your opinion heard by the “bigger gorilla”. Our side of the story needs to get out past our own circles- does anyone know someone at that “fair and balanced” news agency?
The simple, very clear, fact of the matter is that AMA is caving. They are telling us we do, in one way or another, whether directly or through AMA, have to register and follow this HIGHLY ILLEGAL overreach by the FAA. I will not be renewing my membership with an organization (AMA)that doesn’t do its job to protect its members and on top of that, encourages its members to follow an illegal rule.
Another thing, we’re being told that we can still fly over 400 feet because we are protected by section 336 but apparently section 336 doesn’t mean a damn things since the FAA just crapped all over it and is making us register, as well as the AMA going along with the registration. I wish the AMA would just grow a pair, and admit they failed! The whole point was for AMA to prevent its members from being controlled by the FAA…obviously if they had accomplished that, they wouldn’t be telling us to act like good little puppies and do with the big bad FAA is telling us to do (without the authority to tell us, by the way). If the AMA were really doing their job, their message to us would be very simple and quite clear…it would be:
“Do NOT register! The FAA is illegally overstepping their bounds! Our members are legally protected by section 336 and we will protect our paying members no matter what the cost! Again, do NOT register!”
But, most obviously, the AMA has dropped the ball as evidenced by the fact they are even mentioning us registering. Following this ruling even a little, should not have even been a thought in the AMA’s collective half a brain.
Couldn’t agree with you more my friend! To Hell with the AMA and the FAA. Let’s all rally and start our own COMMUNITY BASED ORGANIZATION and exercise our RIGHTS that EXEMPT US RC MODEL AIRCRAFT USERS THAT STRICTLY FLY FOR RECREATIONAL AND HOBBY PURPOSES FROM ANY FAA RULES AND REGULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Full SPEED AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a lifetime modeler and a recent drone FPV pilot I see a Huge difference.
Drones need and rely on computer guidance to fly. They are currently able to fly much further than the person can see through the headset. This is a concern. Many drone pilots can not fly line of sight like ALL Modelers. If there is a visual issue and the headset is removed, the pilots do not have the ability to bring their aircraft home. The head set also blocks all vision except in front. I have seen near misses from the pilot almost hitting themselves with the drone as it takes off cause they have the goggles on.
Lumping Drone pilots and Modelers together is grossly incorrect.
Only drones are landing on the Whitehouse lawn.
There is basicly no ability to fly needed, tied in with drone, you only need the money to but one.
Additionally all the parts are coming from china with no quality control.
This buy and fly drone world needs to be regulated quite differently.
I feel a huge injustice is being done.
I only hope that the AMA has the true foresight to differentiate themselves from the massive hordes of drone pilots who step out there door and fly.
Not so glad to see my AMA dues for the past 20 years have been wasted. It’s clear that the AMA is seeing this as an opportunity to steamline their membership process and bring on new members.
“If you can’t beat them, join them” is the motto of the day. Instead of fighting the FAA, take the easy road and provide easy FAA registration via the AMA “After all, if you have to register with the FAA, might as well register via the AMA and we’ll take care of the FAA stuff for you”
This is a money grab by a greedy organization that’s not going to bat for its members’ interests.
This is my comment to the FAA. I had to cut 40% of the original to fit the space.
I object to the requirement that model aircraft be registered.
I do not dispute that the FAA has regulatory authority over model airplanes that are operated in a manner that creates risk of injury or damage in the NAS. No specification of weight, size, speed, drag coefficient, terminal velocity, configuration, payload or power makes the distinction. The distinction is made solely in the time, place and manner of operation. The regulatory authority is limited by Section 336 to situations where a “model aircraft” is operated in a manner that threatens the safety of the NAS.
Part of our problem is nomenclature. I suggest using the terms “Section 336 model aircraft” and “non Section 336 model aircraft”.
Governmental regulations must be able to pass all three of these tests upon judicial review.
It must be justified by a compelling governmental interest.
The FAA has an interest in identifying UASs operated outside Section 336. Registration of all model aircraft operators does not accomplish that identification. UASs operated outside Section 336 will likely not carry a registration number. Another way must be found to identify those aircraft operated outside Section 336.
It must be narrowly tailored to address all essential aspects of the compelling interest without being overly broad.
The proposed rule stipulates a weight range for the registration requirement. The weight analysis of the Task Force is based on seriously flawed assumptions. We do not fly our aircraft as steel balls released from 500 feet over populated areas. Our airplanes are designed to come down slowly. This is not to say that there aren’t model airplanes that could be operated unsafely. They just aren’t. Because we operate them according to the AMA Safety Code, AC 91-57A and Section 336. We operate our model airplanes safely because we don’t want our aircraft damaged and we don’t want liability for injury or damage to others.
Individual aircraft are not being registered. Owners are being registered. Anyone can put any number on any aircraft. There is no nexus between a particular aircraft and a particular registration number, as there is between an individual aircraft and an N number, or an automobile and its license plate number. There is no way to establish responsibility for a UAS with a registration number on it. Such a loose connection likely would have no evidentiary value in court. Such registration thus serves no governmental enforcement interest.
It is also unduly burdensome. It is not just that model airplane owners must go online, type a few lines and pay a $5 fee. Our name, address and email will be on a publicly searchable registry. Any time there is a “drone incident” in my neighborhood, I become Suspect Number One, guilty until I can prove myself innocent. Any malcreant in the neighborhood could look up my AMA number and put it on his drone. Drone gets caught, now I must prove it is not mine and I was not operating it. The number is prima facie evidence of my guilt. It is very hard to prove a negative. Either way, it could cost me a lot of grief and expense.
There must be no less restrictive way of accomplishing the compelling interest.
If someone is violating the vehicle code, an officer pulls them over. If someone is violating FAA regulations with a drone, there should be a similar way to “pull them over” with an enforcement drone.
An enforcement drone would have the capacity to identify the radio frequency and operating system of an errant drone, overpower the transmissions with a stronger signal from a directional antenna, take control of the drone and bring it down. That removes the immediate threat to safety of aircrews or public. In addition, enforcement drone(s) will be able to identify the source of the control signal (triangulated direction finders), locate it on the ground and record the signal transmissions. This allows enforcement officers on the ground to apprehend the operator. It is also necessary to prove that the operator was operating the drone in question. A registration number would not do that. It is necessary to record the signal and the behavior of the drone. One difficulty would be an autonomous drone. The enforcement drone would have to follow it home. The enforcement drone will require high resolution video to record the operator retrieving the drone.
The FAA to should work with the drone industry to develop products and training for law enforcement. I suspect that all the technological elements already exist, it is just a matter of putting them together. That removes the need to register model airplanes entirely. It provides an alternative way to regulate errant drones. There is no need to look up a number in a registry if you have the drone and its operator in custody.
Gary Hinze AMA 29828
Oh yeah! Most of us have our panties in a bunch for a good reason. I am retired FAA, 30 yrs in fact, and throughout those years I saw more knee jerking reaction to many “problems”! This issue is no exception, and I believe it will NOT go away. The FAAs attitude as the big “eye in the sky” will remain. I DONT support giving up more of my personal information to your government just to ENJOY a hobby in my retirement years. Not no, but hell no!! This is an absolute back asswards approach to taking the easiest way to target those of us that have gotten into the hobby because we WANT to be club members and WANT to support an organization that at one time had a back bone. I see this FAA/AMA “handshake” as collateral damage to the safe and responsible players in the system. This will most likely be my last year as an AMA member, not because the AMA is going away, but because the FAA has gotten their foot in the door and eventually will consume the AMA via some future FAR or CFR one obscure ruling at a time. Another issue about this registration fiasco is that no one identifies that many AMA sanctioned clubs/fields are in Class G airspace. That’s uncontrolled airspace and means exactly what it sounds like. So why does the FAA think they have to interfere with a reg they already have in place? That totally makes no sense to me. I will not register, I will continue to fly, and I can’t wait to see the first RC registration Air Marshal showing up at field near you. Not gonna happen!
I THINK YOUR THE GUY WE NEED REPRESENTING US, YOU APPARENTLY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. I’M ON BOARD WITH YOU, YOU GOT MY VOTE.
Is the AMA truly bringing a suit against FAAs actions on model aircraft or is the AMA just try to jerk us around.
Was it really so hard to get the FAA to agree to allowing AMA membership renewal to
produce FAA registration?
Boy, you guys are sure tough negotiators.
That’s like a guy being shot by firing squad and his lawyer boasting hey, I got a concession for your execution, they were going to use .30-.30 but now they’re using .30-.06s.
What does it say to a court ,about the merits of your complaint if you, instruct your membership to comply with the issue in the complaint?
The FAA says it’s not a new regulation, it has always been there for all aircraft.
Well, there are many other regulations for full scale aircraft that models can not
comply with. The FAA argument is specious, but why would a court entertain arguments
if you instruct AMA members to comply with the issue.
So now we can “register” in a streamlined way? Oh Goody, Goody!
Who the Hell asked the AMA to streamline the process, as if this was the complaint?
You are not supposed to facilitate a process you’re objecting to, you are supposed to resist it. The AMA is supposed take a legal stance and stick to it, what their members decide to do is the members business.
But when your leadership is “talking out of both sides of their mouth” that leadership is close to violating its’ fiduciary responsibility to its’ membership.
You dopes are offering us something we are unconcerned with. “Streamlining” the registration process has never been an issue at least for the people who object to the FAA over reach of its’ authority. But now the AMA is touting this BS “streamlining” as an accomplishment.
You AMA guys make me sick, I think your spines need some CA and kicker, and if you
can’t find the resolve to lead an effective legal battle against a governmental agency
then the AMA membership needs to consider a complete overhaul of the AMA board
or a dissolution of the AMA in its’ entirety.
Streamlining registration is not a step in the right direction.
It is offensive to me, to read what you consider to be a step in the right direction.
So if I only fly hand launched gliders and rubber band powered freeflight, AMA will give my personal information to the FAA?
This is “gun control” in a sense, just register your planes and everything will be alright The government is over reaching and citizens are dutifully following their orders. Those that have followed the rules in the past are now being penalized for those who have no respect for right and wrong. I know that in California a lot of people have stopped flying because of overreaching rules set out by the state; it won’t be long before it happens everywhere, and the freedoms that we enjoyed will be gone; such a shame.
Jeez, folks threatening to drop their AMA memberships over this??? Have fun defending yourself against a lawsuit when you plow your bird into some poor soul’s gourd without AMA’s $2.5 million in personal liability insurance.
My experience with all the rule making surrounding CFR Title 49 Part 192 & 195 years ago proved that craziness will eventually get culled from the herd…
Be happy and go fly!
Just went to the .gov website to register. All I see are directions,pics & talk of Multi-rotor craft. No where does it say, or imply, that I, being a fixed wing pilot (with an airfoil) and a gas motor need to register. Its all about the UAV’s it appears, at least as far as the governments website is concerned.
I think I will skip this intrusion of my privacy.
You state that AMA members can fly FPV, fly above 400 ft., use our AMA number instead of the FAA one. My question is, none of this is stated on the FAA website. Leagally Who is right, FAA or AMA?
What is in it for you AMA by having us register with the FAA ? Doesn’t sound like your fighting against this regulation but trying to include us in it by simply letting us use our AMA number instead of a FAA number. That is no solution. Only an appeasement.
Section 336 is perfectly clear what it says. Model aviation is about to be destroyed by a government agency that cant even properly regulate real aircraft operations or their maintenance. What`s next an inspector at every field to determine if my model is safe to fly ? Is the FAA gonna come knocking at my door and ask to see the registration number on my models or go to every field and check registration before they give us “permission” to fly ? What happened to don’t register till we get this sorted out stance ? How is this even going to be inforced ?
I have been in this hobby a long time and am mortified that this is even happening,
I know every member has spent a lot of money on this hobby and doesn’t appreciate wasted money on something that could be eventually be regulated out of existence or too expensive to enjoy like most everything else the government gets into.
I agree with Robert, the AMA is nothing but a north east union. They take your money. stuff their pockets and make you think they are doing good. For 30 years all I have seen is a magazine.
The AARP of modelers The laws set forth by the AMA is broken everyday by turbine and Imac pilot, think about it!
I totally agree that the whole thing is a stupid crock, but thanks to the irresponsible drones that want to fly to the White House lawn now we must all pay. Everything you do in this great country that we live in cost money. And someone is going to tell you where and how deep to cover it. Just another way to justify someone’s job that really has no purpose. But looks like it’s just the way it’s going be. Pay the $5.00 make the government happy by giving you there little number and just go fly your plane. Everybody is happy.
I DON’T KNOW WHAT CAUSED THE FAA TO INTRODUCE THIS RULE, QUADS, LARGE MODEL JETS BURSTING IN FLAMES ON YOUTUBE, FPV, GPS, STABILITY UNITS, TECHNICAL ADVANCES IN MODELING, ARF, PNP, OPEN SOURCE TRANSMITTERS, FOAMIES? WHAT I DO KNOW IS YOU DON’T KNOW EITHER! YOU GUESS YOUR NEIGHBOR FLYING HIS DJI QUAD AND IMAGINE HE’S LOOKING IN YOUR DAUGHTERS WINDOW WHILE CHANGING INTO HER BIKINI, BUT HE’S NOT. THE TRUTH MAYBE AND I REPEAT MAYBE YOUR FRUSTRATION WITH THE FACT THAT ANOTHER BUREAUCRAT IN WASHINGTON ARBITRARILY TOOK AWAY ANOTHER OF YOUR FREEDOMS. WE HAD ALL HOPED WE WERE PROTECTED FROM ANY INTRUSION TO OUR HOBBY BY A CONGRESSIONAL ORDER. AS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS WE AREN’T. SO HOW ABOUT WE STOP AND ADMIT THAT “I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE CAUSE” BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON’T, YOU ONLY THINK YOU DO. THE RULE IS WHAT YOU DO KNOW, ITS OVERREACHING AND INCONSISTENT WITH THE CONGRESSIONAL ORDER WHICH PROTECTED MODEL FLYING. GIVE THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY IN COURT FIGHTING THE RULE YOUR FULL SUPPORT, NOW BEFORE ITS TO LATE AND PLEASE, PLEASE STOP THE BLAME GAME, ITS COUNTER PRODUCTIVE.
Flying within 5 miles of airport…’notification’ or ‘permission’?
I just contacted my local tower on how to handle the process of notifying them of flights within 5 miles. The subject of permission was mentioned at which point I objected and stated that I believed I was only required to notify them. The tower manager directed me to N JO 7210.891, page 3, paragraph c.(3) which states (in part)”However, if the airport operator or the air traffic control facility believes the operation could impact safety, the facility may deny the operation and notify the UAS operator of the specific objection.” However, this same paragraph points to AC 91-57A (Model Aircraft Operating Standards) which “…provides guidance to persons operating Unmanned Aircraft for hobby or recreational purposes….”. AC 91-57A states the “prior notice” requirement but does not mention “denying the operation”.
Do we ‘notify’ or ‘request permission’?
Just got done registering at the FAA site as recommended. No where does it say anything about using my AMA number as you state is allowed. They also have very specific rules I have to abide by, some which you state we do not have to follow. Example, Fly below 400 feet. Is the FAA going to change our rules and numbers after the fact? Or are we now stuck with them, or as you suggest we can follow the AMA rules and disregard the FAA rules?
If you are going to write a true statement and believe in it why would you sign in as anonymous to your name, Don’t you believe in what you said, or are you too weak to sign you name to what you said.
im registered but it is still bullshit. just another government money grabe.
FAA is just a rougue federal agency overstepping the power granted to them by the people. I hope all AMA members do the right thing this fall and vote to shrink the size of government so they stop needlessly intruding into our lives. I’ll just say one thing in case anyone is confused, Democrats are NOT your friend on this issue! Just think California. Controlled by Democrats…want to ban RC airplane flying completely.
A membership survey is needed.
I keep poring over the growing comments in this thread. There are many good comments, ideas and valid concerns.
It seems that before the AMA takes any definite course of action, they should emergency poll / survey their membership. An approach which will gauge how the majority of members would like “our organization” to proceed.
Put me down for the following:
– Not registering with the FAA.
(It’s a blatant violation of sec 336.)
-The AMA should take legal action to challenge the unlawful FAA regulation.
(Or at least support John Taylor an attorney taking on the FAA individually in the federal appellate court.)
-AMA members should be exempt from FAA regulation period.
(With the AMA having such a great safety record, established common sense rules & good education/mentoring program, AMA membership would be an exempt alternative to FAA registration.)
I have to agree with those which see the AMA number in place of a FAA number as nothing but a membership drive. I am a recent member of AMA(2 years) so don’t know the history but since I’m a RC Heli pilot, I haven’t found much value in the membership anyway. I also agree AMA could have easily been making the argument the problem is with model aircraft that can be flown past “eyesight” contact, not with the average model airplane and certainly not with a model helicopter, even a 700 class. I plan not registering, and will make the case I thought it was the camera drones.
Nice, another hobby or interest that the government is involved in by using registration. I’ve only been a member of the AMA for a year or so but I’m not keen on a group making it easy for me to register my info to the .gov before even a final decision on why this is happening in the first place. Because some nitwit buys a DJI Phantom and does something stupid with it doesn’t mean I get to pay the price of having blame being put on me and a database entry made. Most of you are smart enough to understand history – you make a database to eventually use it to collect up the objects listed from the named people. If you’re a gun owner, you’re familiar with this concept…
So I get to pay the money to put some letters on 1 of my larger RC helicopters to comply with an FAA edict… nice. I’ll still be an AMA member but this isn’t looking too good as a start of getting my respect.
Looks like the AMA caved in just as we all thought. The AMA has NO voice with the FAA. The FAA could careless about the AMA. They are a joke. I am not going to register. It doesn’t matter anyway since I am in the DC area and my club cannot fly. Face it folks, the FAA WILL close down all AMA fields eventually. The AMA cannot do a darn thing about it. The AMA is nothing but talk. My membership expires January 31 and they won’t get one cent from me.
I can deal with the registration, I understand where they are trying to go with this. What I have an issue with is the lack of clarity in many of the regulations. The FAA defines that we may not fly withing 5 miles of an airport, but they do not define if that is a towered or non-towered airport or both. On top of that, if I am flying at 400 ft or lower (AGL by the way, again not defined), how am I impacting aircraft approaching an airport 4.5 miles away? As a commercial pilot, I am only below 400 ft during the final minute of my approach to landing. If I can use my AMA number on the aircraft instead of the FAA number, I’d like to see that written down so when “Barney” challenges me, I have something to refer to. What happens if someone else is flying one of my airplanes? As a club leader, I don’t want to put my registration number on our 4H Club aircraft. That leaves me open to abuse. In general I wish this was a little more thought out before implementation. This is a typical goverment response to something; shoot first then aim.
Question / Concerns
Why is AMA and FAA still using the language ‘Register Aircraft’ or ‘Register UAS’ in context of registration for aircrafts under 55lbs?!?! It is very important that this vernacular is removed from verbal and written correspondence. If not, there is nothing prohibiting FAA from simply making a slight change and my 20 RC models suddenly cost me $100! Do our AMA leaders get this, or should we have someone else represent AMA to FAA?
Second, when will the 400′ ceiling we agree to during registration will be removed, or changed to something like – ‘I recognize and will adhere to the 400′ guideline when not flying my UAS in a non AMA (or other organization) sanctioned field as I follow those restrictions.’
Come on AMA, this is not brain surgery, simple request from AMA to FAA, requests with suggestions.
Hope this makes sense, I have not registered my self as an UAS operator until I see the changes.
Thank you for all that you do, I am sure it is not easy but at the very least lets get our very own blogs, media alerts, and other correspondence right!
PS I posted this as a response to the most resent blog, but nobody seems to be monitoring that one.
Seems to me that the FAA requirement of a maximum ceiling of 400-feet ( 122-meters ) above ground level ( AGL ) trumps what the AMA may say from here on out. Afterall, if you exceed this maximum ceiling limit and they know about it they can dock you simply by saying – hey you agreed to it as a requirement for registration – case closed.
Its to bad our hobby has taken a bad rap because of a few bad apples and the media’s use of the word DRONE (terrible word), the regulation that will follow will kill our great hobby, eventually. To this I will register and get a few more yrs of enjoyment before regulation and the expense takes it from me. Its to bad, I was hoping I could introduce my young children to this amazing pastime. Something that meant so much to all of us will be smashed by bureaucratic making it to expensive ($5 for the next registration 3yrs from now, yeah right). Big brother has entered our lives in to many ways, now this. Gee, I thought it was a free country. Keep letting them take our freedoms and we’ll all be Mooing in the pasture so to speak. Our AMA was simply trying to reason for resolve, and get kicked in the by the FAA.I like to think common sense would prevail only to realize there is no common sense anymore. Get your flights in there limited…
AMA, I am deeply disturbed and quite disgusted with the way this fiasco with the FAA has turned out. I was really hoping you leaders would fight for the members side, I feel you have thrown all us members under the bus by playing nicey-nicey with the FAA. Why don’t you go tell the FAA to go pound sand? They are the ones breaking the law that Congress passed in 2012 which actually exempts model airplanes!
This joining the FAA just to fly my model airplanes at my AMA field is totally ludicrous! I have no desire to give the FAA my name, address and phone number so they can put it on their public data base. When we are flying at our fields it is not as if we are ever endangering the public. I am a fixed wing pilot, I make most of my planes and then fly them, something I love to do. I am one month from being 80 years old and I have been in this hobby of model air planes most of my life and it has been a very enjoyable hobby, but not now! It really bothers me the FAA is actually breaking the law which Congress passed in 2012 which exempts model air planes! What a total over reach the FAA is doing, reminds me of the EPA’s over reach with the water puddles!
The quadcopters are the problem! These quadcopters are mostly flown by non-AMA members.
So, I have a suggestion!! The AMA should ban the flying of any quadcopter at all sanctioned fields and stop advertising them in the Model Aviation Magazine. My experience with members flying these quadcopters on a regular basis at the AMA fields is more of a passing fad and the continual use is minimal, at least at my flying fields.
As most members are aware of, some clubs don’t even let helicopters fly at their fields, so why should we embrace the quadcopter. The general public likes to fly them because they are easy to learn to fly and they are fun to fly, but these people are not in the safety mode of thinking as we AMA members are and look at the mess they have gotten us into. This really bothers me.
The general public is going to keep on flying these things unsafely – the FAA hasn’t accomplished a darn thing for safety. So, eliminate any flying of these quadcopters at our fields. You won’t break my heart any!
Anyway, after February 19th, I will no longer be flying my radio control planes; I will not join the FAA just to fly my model airplanes!
I’m an AMA member, I fly fixed wing and rotorcraft including quadcopters. All of your generalizatios of rotorcraft and rotorcraft pilots are completely untrue.
Ted – you are absolutely correct. However there is play on words because the word drones sounds more menacing. Drones are what the military uses and that’s where the word came from. You would think by now people would know the difference between a propeller and a wing but that’s probably wishful thinking these days considering the new lows intelligence is reaching.
Several years ago a friend from Equador was visiting at our house. He stated, “You Americans think that you are free. You most certainly are not free!” Shocked by his statement I replied that we most certainly are free. He replied, “You Americans have a law that governs everything you do!” While I could not totally agree with him I did see his point. With this FAA ruling I see it all the more! These laws are being levied against our freedoms by people that are not even elected.
The so called promises that the FAA have given – that AMA members will be given special treatment – hold little weight for me. Are they in writing? Are they law? Couldn’t the FFA change them at any time just like the FAA always does – like making these proposals law in the first place? It appears to me that the FAA is just telling the AMA what the AMA wants to hear. What the FAA actually will do is anybody’s guess. Will the AMA just become the major enforcement arm of the FAA concerning this? Will the FAA force the AMA to turn over it’s roster to see if we all are complying?
My sincerest hope is that few will actually register with the FAA causing them to realize what a hopeless exercise they have embarked upon. If I decide to register it definitely will not be before Feb 19.
I believe that every one is looking at this from the wrong point of view!! This is an electoral year… We need to vote out those ones that are the proverbial thorn in our side! We need to know who are all the people pushing this ruling, soon to become a legislation… if we are to stand in our feet. wee need to send a message to “THOSE GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES” that we can change those rules regardless of how they feel about it,,,
Then in that case, you had all better remember these two names DIANNE FEINSTEIN ( California senator ) and CHARLES ( CHUCK ) SCHUMER ( New York senator ) !
Good luck AMA but it’s David ( the AMA ) against the Goliath ( the FAA ). I have a feeling the FAA is eventually going to oversee all of our operations and eventually make the AMA irrelevant. I hope it doesn’t happen but unfortunately it looks like that’s the direction it’s going. BIG BROTHER and NEW WORLD order are the real agenda. And no; I am not a conspiracy advocate or enthusiast.
In their recent press release the FAA claims that it has registered nearly 300,000 drones. Correction: 300000 PILOTS of small unmanned aircraft systems may have been registered. Many pilots have multiple “aircraft”, as the FAA has designated them. I suspect a high percentage of the registrations are from us traditional model aircraft enthusiasts, who have inexplicable been lumped under the definition of “aircraft” by the FAA, and “drone”, by the media.
D. Anderson – THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for pointing this out ! Can you believe it; this is the FAA saying this; drones registered. Heck they can’t even count BECAUSE a registered individual will normally have more than what the FAA still to this day calls drones. Thus the mathematics will tell you ( like ball don’t lie – neither does mathematics ) that the figure is DEFINITELY higher if drones are what they are counting. By the way FAA; my fixed-wing aircraft like what others also have are not drones and never were, and neither are quad-copters, helicopters, etc. Drones are what the military uses and has always been that way until you conveniently decided to use a more menacing term for aircraft which are NOT drones.
Samuel Clements said it best “lies, damn lies, and statistics”
Warth – You can also add this – intelligence and reasonable common sense are reaching all time lows ! Greed and power blinds and robs the human soul of dignity !
I just viewed the AMA video Ground Control. Once again I think the AMA is passing the wrong message to its members. It is clear in the video AMA is advising clubs to pay no attention to FAA registration for pilots at your field. Come on AMA, first hold off registering, then go ahead and register, and now it’s okay to fly at an AMA field with no FAA registration verification. I don’t believe you said that on video. And we wonder why AMA seems to have no clout with the FAA.
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