We also suggest you read Frequently Asked Questions about the Drone Registration Process
On Wednesday, December 16 the AMA Executive Council unanimously approved an action plan to relieve and further protect our members from unnecessary and burdensome regulations. This plan addresses the recently announced interim rule requiring federal registration of pilots who fly model aircraft and unmanned aircraft systems (UASa) weighing between 0.55 and 55 pounds.
AMA has long used a similar registration system with our members, which we pointed out during the task force deliberations and in private conversations with the FAA. As you are aware, AMA’s safety program instructs all members to place his or her AMA number or name and address on or within their model aircraft, effectively accomplishing the safety and accountability objectives of the interim rule. AMA has also argued that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress’ intent in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, otherwise known as the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft.”
The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue. We believe that resolution to the unnecessary federal registration rule for our members rests with AMA’s petition before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. This petition, filed in August 2014, asks the court to review the FAA’s interpretation of the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft.” The central issue is whether the FAA has the authority to expand the definition of aircraft to include model aircraft; thus, allowing the agency to establish new standards and operating criteria to which model aircraft operators have never been subject to in the past.
In promulgating its interim rule for registration earlier this week, the FAA repeatedly stated that model aircraft are aircraft, despite the fact that litigation is pending on this very question. The Council believes the FAA’s reliance on its interpretation of Section 336 for legal authority to compel our members to register warrants the Court’s immediate attention to AMA’s petition.
While we continue to believe that registration makes sense at some threshold and for flyers operating outside of a community-based organization or flying for commercial purposes, we also strongly believe our members are not the problem and should not have to bear the burden of additional regulations. Safety has been the cornerstone of our organization for 80 years and AMA’s members strive to be a part of the solution.
As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA’s legal deadline for registering.
Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.
In the near future, we will also be asking our members to make their voices heard by submitting comments to the FAA’s interim rule on registration. We will follow-up soon with more detailed information on how to do this.
Thank you for your continued support of AMA. We will provide you with more updates as they become available.
Kind regards,
The AMA Executive Council
Bob Brown, AMA President
Gary Fitch, AMA Executive Vice President
Andy Argenio, AMA Vice President, District I
Eric Williams, AMA Vice President, District II
Mark Radcliff, AMA Vice President, District III
Jay Marsh, AMA Vice President, District IV
Kris Dixon, AMA Vice President, District V
Randy Cameron, AMA Vice President, District VI
Tim Jesky, AMA Vice President, District VII
Mark Johnston, AMA Vice President, District VIII
Jim Tiller, AMA Vice President, District IX
Lawrence Tougas, AMA Vice President, District X
Chuck Bower, AMA Vice President, District XI
Frequently Asked Questions about the Drone Registration Process
Congratulations for taking this stand.
Thank you.
I renewed yesterday in support of AMA.
Very few things we do are as wholesome as flying a model airplane.
Hopefully good common sense will prevail, quickly.
Dave Patrick AMA 112836
Dream on, Dave! No disrespect, I wish you were right about the common sense. We have all been tagged by the FAA as AIRCRAFT OWNERS and are now subject to the same Title 14 Part 47 of the Code of Federal Regulagions AIRCRAFT REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS that full scale aircraft owners have to comply with. They have the same 3-year $5.00 registration fee requirement. But wait, there’s more, lots more! For example, we will have to notify the FAA of any change of address within 30 days. Here’s the real rub that everyone including the AMA has missed – you have to be a U.S. Citizen or have legal Permanent Resident alien status to register an aircraft. Maybe there is a method to their madness?!?
John P, that reference you made to “. . . U.S. Citizen or have legal Permanent Resident alien status to register . . .”, makes me feel a lot safer. That will surely stop any illegal aliens with malicious intent of terrorism from flying/using an UAS to achieve their goal.
Even if that goal is just to fly his helicopter at the local field..such as the case of an H1B visa holder..
Not to dampen the humor of your message at all, but I just want to point out that a lot of the potential damage from drones is not necessarily due to terrorism.
Yellowstone (and presumably other areas) are having trouble with pollution from people crashing drones into geysers, and they can’t really get them out because, well, super hot water. Also, airspace is getting more and more crowded, and now they’re trying to sell drones to follow people around skiing/snowboarding? Mountains get crowded.
I don’t really mind the traditional RC flying I was brought up with – i.e.; don’t cause other people harm – but I feel like a lot of clueless people are getting UAVs and blissfully ignorant of the (potential/actual) damage they are doing
All; Unfortunately the only thing these rulings will do is keep honest people honest.
That’s right Sonny! We all know that that $5.00 registration fee, placing your “number” on all your aircraft, and only flying within the confines of approved FAA Airspace will prevent ANYONE from using any radio controlled aircraft (I REFUSE TO CALL THEM DRONES!) from doing anything stupid, illegal or terroristic… I’m SO HAPPY that our government is SO INTELLIGENT when it comes to stopping crime and terror… You know, like the way you can’t buy an AR15 in California… WOW! Think of how many people’s lives have been saved because of THAT Regulation!
No it won’t stop anyone from doing anything. Not registering in no way prevents an individual from flying a drone or whatever model aircraft.
Model aircraft have been flying in our skies since I was a child and no one yet that I am aware of has done anything malicious with them like attaching a bomb and really there’s been nothing stopping anyone from doing so if they chose to and not being able to register with the FAA because you are an illegal alien won’t stop them either.
Why is it that you think someone with the intent to break the law would not do so because a law is preventing them from registering as a pilot?
Steve B, Damage to sulfur spitting geysers or the environment? Are you kidding? Nothing in a Quad is going to harm the environment like what a Geyser already spits out all by itself.
This is nothing but gun control for aircraft!
Oh I don’t know about that, QuadcopterPilot. I think it’s less about protecting against terrorism than protecting against stupidity. Plenty of people have done downright retarded things with their drones. Look at the teenager who gained notoriety for strapping a handgun to a drone and later came back with a flamethrower-equipped drone that he used to light a turkey on fire (in a wooded area, no less). It is acts like this, and ones like flying around wildfires, airports, people and stadiums, that has caused the FAA to come down on us. The 1/10th of 1% are ruining it for the rest of us.
Personally, registering doesn’t really bother me. The only reason I haven’t yet is because I think it’s wrong to make the database public. If my son’s drone flies out of range and ends up drifting into someone’s tree, I don’t want them over-reacting (because of the media coverage of the more ridiculous drone activities) and showing up at our front door when my kids are playing in front of the street. There have been some colossal over-reactions to completely innocent drone flights out there….
Remember that famous quote that reads – “If Guns become Illegal – Only Criminals will have Guns!” (or something along that line).
The exact same thing goes for RC Aircraft. Only the CRIMINALS will have Drones….
really the same way the 3 day waiting period stopped gun violence
Steve B: Just a clarification that US National Parks do not permit Quadcopter operation without obtaining special permission. They can already enforce their rules without the need of FAA registration of AMA hobbyists.
P3PPilot
I disagree. Registration is NOT fine. It will NOT stop these blithering idiots from flaming turkeys with quad copters or doing other foolish thing – AT ALL. There are already other laws that apply to those dangerous actions. There is NO NEED to apply uneccessary and ineffecgtive(!) government intrusion into our free time!
The “citizen or legal permanent resident alien status” is from ICAO conventions; it’s a treaty thing.
Correct! It’s all about Treaties, Contacts, UCC-1 Uniform commercial Law (Vacatan)& the U.S. vs U.S.A. ( Citizen of the U.S. corporation or Citizen (American National) of the U.S.A.
If the rule, regulation, statue ….etc is not posted in the Federal Registrar and the FAA does not have a OMB # to practice business in one of the 50 states or All, There is no jurisdiction! hello. We are American Nationals in the USA and deemed enemies of their state hence the U.S. It is a foreign Sovereign entity as the Town of London in England and the Vatican in the area of Italy. Their all legal fictions
with very clever NWO picked criminals upholding there agendas
to own, control and exterminate any and all in its way. See
Georgia Guide Stone R.C. Christian (Code for the Rosecrutions).
Just background of 20 years of research. but see for yourself. Don’t believe me. Read, investigate, debunk the debunk and always be a student. If wrong say so and correct.
It’s all about jurisdiction, FAA is trying yo claim jurisdiction all though they have none. The creator owns the sky, not man has the right over another man, unless treat, agreement by contract is mutually reached without prejudice, co-hersement, or duress.
The government are our servants and must by oath act in We the People of the United States of America best interest.
The goal in this case is to get the Sheep to sign-up free (contract) not knowing of the ultimate solution. The heads of all the Alphabet Agencies are given orders (agendas to follow to slowly lure us into the trap of their Matrix by
deceit. (free to join the first year, now next year collect revenue the next, severely penalize you if you don’t submit to the game, next year make you have a class 2 or 3 physical more revenue for others to spread the web of deceit and more penalties, limit what anyone can fly and so on. Charge for every class/ size of plane you fly…
I believe the AMA has done an excellent job to help with lawful concerns, We as members have a vital interest in shaping, protecting & controlling our hobbies future for now and future generations of R/C flyers. Obviously safety is number one, but we must not be railroaded and enslaved any more.
Let all support AMA more than ever right now or loose the right to our be loved hobby forever. Right your senate congressmen etc and remind these people that they took an oath to be our servants. If they don’t have an oath the the USA they are imposter’s and must be removed.
TJH
P.S. The little white house FPV incident was a pre-planned event to spark this action of control. 911 fraud see John Lear you tube son of Bil Lear Lear Inc. antigravty (1953) and Learjet Manfacture.
Hah! I’m just an old backwoods, backwards dummy. But my contention is that the AMA dragged us into this mess. Their glee in embracing the multi-rotor phenom brought these advanced toy/machines into modeler’s midst and gave them the shelter they have NO right to expect from us, the membership.
Go out and query the man on the street. Ask them what these new “drones” look like. Don’t worry about pencil and paper to keep track of how many describe a craft with fixed wings and single or double propellers for motivation. You will have plenty of fingers to keep track of such – even if you’re one-handed. The queried are going to describe a machine with 4 or more rotors and a camera on board. A machine capable of hovering about their residence for aims less than honorable. And while most of those you ask will never have heard of the AMA (unless it’s the American Medical Assoc), they’d likely to be quick to expect Unca Sam to shake them into line. No lawyer lingo from me – just common sense – such a RARE commodity these days.
Look at all the glossy ads for multi-rotors in Model Aviation. I assume there’s rags out there devoted to personal drones – I don’t know ’cause I haven’t cared to look. Wonder how many ads there are for model airplanes in those publications? OR, maybe such publications are full of ads for ARFs – in which case I’m simply full of something.
Of course, the cat has well cleared the bag already. All WE get to do is reap the benefits. That and revel in our newfound recognition by a ponderous and insensitive federal arm that moves quickly to cover it’s posterior when one of these toys inadvertently (or intentionally) causes loss of life or worse. To the best of my knowledge, there’s no Academy of Drone Aeronautics for the FAA to take to task and clamp down even further on, so one can assume we’re it.
Bob – You are absolutely right about the public’s perception of what a “drone” is and it is evident the FAA sees it the same way. Just look at their “drone” examples document:
https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/media/UAS_Weights_Registration.pdf
Not a single fixed-wing model airplane in there…
Ya.. The ama is negligent in opposing real drones and now is negligent in the classification of my MODEL AIRPLANE.. THEY have litterally sold us down the river without a paddle and screwed up a once exciting and interesting hobby.
Love your post. Right on the money.
I hate these drone multi rotor noisy crickets. It takes allt he fun out of the traditional flying hobby we have all enjoyed for decades.
You needed skills to read the plans. Cut the balsa wood, build one section at time, cover and fly it with a pride.
Now any Joe can buy these noisy crickets off ebay with a radio for $100 dollars.
Freaking people have killed this specialized fun hobby altogether.
My feelings exactly, just like I’ve said a few times on here since all this started. The multirotors (so called Drones) and the untrained uneducated operators that can now buy them at any shopping mall, flea market, or Wal-Mart are the root of the whole problem, but WE are the ones that will catch hell about it. They will continue to not register with any organization or follow any rules or laws. So, I say again & again, what we really need is not more rules & laws, we need enforcement of the laws we have!!!! As always, our government chooses to make more meaningless laws that they will still not enforce rather than just stepping up and dealing with enforcing the ones they already have. And by the way, there will still be no enforcement as far as I can see. The FBI will not be sitting around waiting to see if an RC aircraft is tagged & the ones that are flown into no fly zones will not be by registered pilots anyway.
OK Rant Over……getting down from my soap box now……
As a member of the quadcopter community, I have to chime in. I am not the “average” pilot of these 4 propeller unmanned vehicles. I am a Science teacher who thought it would be a great engineering project for my students. I ended up doing months of research about the parts, the art and science of flying, the traditions and customs, etc. By the time I built mine and got flying, I felt that I was qualified to do so and knew the general best practices.
I understand your frustration at the explosion of these quadcopters onto the market. I also share that frustration in the sense that MANY of these things are sold to people whose only research involved asking the guy at the store if he had to charge it. I understand that.
Given your years of experience flying fixed wing aircraft, I am sure you feel like your hobby (lifestyle, even) has been hijacked. To make things worse, your hobby is being unwittingly blamed and saddled with consequences for what some young kids with gopro cameras are doing.
That sucks. I just wanted to share that not all quadcopter pilots are dangerous dolts. Merry Christmas!
You guys seriously sound like a bunch of Outdated / Behind the Times / Biased “Old Geezers”! Remember the outcry when Cell Phones were introduced? And then those new fangled “COMPUTER Gizmos”!?? We’re in the midst of a “Tech Revolution” – (Warning! The Nano Revolution is NEXT!).
Instead of complaining about these new (and very useful) “INVENTIONS”, just EMBRACE IT! Figure out how YOU can use this technolgy to IMPROVE our lives. Check out what I’M doing with “DRONES” at http://www.sardrones.org (just one example).
“BE BRILLIANT!”
I’m sorry. Your example of the rise of cellphones is a ridiculous one. HOW would the use of a cellphone affect me personally? I carry one every day – and use it responsibly. When I do use it, no one but those within earshot are gonna be bothered at all. Of course, if you DO want proof of a cellphone’s danger – consider all the road deaths and lifetime cripplings caused by cellphone-distracted drivers.
These quadcopters – “models” of no aircraft I know of – are branding ALL model planes with the “Drone” stigma. Something the general public never wondered about until the AMA – in their “wisdom” – decided that if they “fly”, we should embrace them. Sorta like awarding the corner drug dealer with a pharmacists license and then trying to convince veteran pharmacists to welcome the newcomers as the next generation of their craft.
If the FAA wanted someone to clamp down on – all they had to do was thumb thru the ad-rich pages of MA to see where the bullseye is. But hey…. enjoy your registrations and the suspicions that will mount as more and more unenlightened drone owners do stupid things to polish our image.
Are you serious that you have to be US citizen???? 🙂 🙂
What about all the illegal immigrants who border crossing in drones?
Damn you just killed my next year business model for a startup company 🙂
Actually John P. the change of address isn’t for your aircraft and registering it doesn’t make you an FAA Certificate holder. If your were a Certificated pilot then you have to notify of your change of address but not because you moved your aircraft anywhere.
Unfortunately, it is unclear how this will affect non-US residents. I enjoy attending fun flys in the US, and would like to attend events such as Watts Over Owatonna”. Many MAAC members from Canada attend these vents regularly. In addition, many “snowbirds” spending time in the States over winter fly at AMA fields near them.
The FCC website will not allow access to the registration process from those outside of the country.
Any Ideas?
I SAY HELL NO I WILL NOT REGISTER AND SUBMIT MY RIGHTS
I am very glad to the the AMA take this stand. We shouldn’t be thrown in with drone pilots. Think this through carefully! If the FAA gets their way, they will essentially take over the AMA’s job. If that happens there won’t be any need for the AMA anymore.
I too am very happy that the AMA is taking this stand and looking out for its members. But I take issue with part of your statement.
Shouldn’t be thrown in with Drone Pilots?
First of all… I am a 30-year AMA member and have built, flown and operated many RC airplanes, boats, land vehicles in this time frame. I have built many of my planes from kits, and several from plans and raw lumber. I taught myself to fly RC and am pretty good at it. I have always and continue to fly with safety in mind.
Secondly… I have been a licensed Private Pilot for 28 years, and have a keen understanding of flying full-scale airplanes and the need to keep our national airspace safe. Forcing us to register our models will not serve to make our airspace any safer.
Thirdly… I also build and fly my own quadcopters. Note that I do not like to use the “media-loved, fear-mongering word.. drone.” So, you might call me a “drone pilot” in your lingo, but again, I fly my multi-rotors with safety first and foremost in my mind. You won’t see me featured on the 11 o’clock news having crashed a “drone” into some sensitive place like the Whitehouse lawn or some precious national park or monument.
Fourthly… Large RC airplanes can carry some serious-sized payloads and can be every bit or more dangerous than many multi-rotors out there, so what the media loves to call drones are not necessarily more dangerous than “regular” RC planes.
Fifthly… The AMA is CORRECTLY representing the entire overall picture of model aviation and it members.
Just because you choose not to fly “drones” doesn’t mean the AMA should turn its back on those that do.
I by NO MEANS advocate the FAA’s requirement of registering our model aircraft. It will NOT keep the nut jobs from being nut jobs, and will only serve to punish law abiding model pilots.
I think with their carefully considered stance, the AMA is doing a great job in its approach to this rather heated subject. I don’t know how it’s going to play out with “Big Brother FAA” wanting to clamp down on all of this, but I am glad the AMA is taking this active roll to attempt to minimize the frustrations and hassle we are now facing.
I applaud the AMA in its efforts and in keeping us informed through its communications channels.
Well said Dean!
Thank you for your response Dean Mavis!! there are WAY too many AMA members that are elitist dinosaurs who don’t understand the reason for the AMA. Those types of people are in some ways more harmful to the AMA then the rogue “drone” pilots are.
Your being a responsible quad copter pilot is commendable. I mean this sincercerly. However, you must admit that what has brought the FAAs attention was NOT an influx of rempent lazy bees landing on the whitehouse lawn, flying around national parks, or interferring with aerial firefighters. It is always “drones”/quad copters. They should have been separated from model airplanes.
another words, you’re also an old dinosaur elitist who somehow thinks that your 5 times the weight, ten times the horsepower scale airplane is less dangerous than my 2 lb plastic drone.
retired 25 year air traffic controller and AMA member who flies drones….legally
Here’s a close call between a helicopter and model airplane (float plane to be exact) less than a mile from LAX,
Funny, I see WAY more videos of WINGS flying very high and very far than I do your so called “drones”. Yes, the media picks up on anything and everything drone related, but 99% of the time when there is a report of a “drone” the photo shown is of a DJI Phantom, but yet we have NO description or even color of said drone. The new buzzword IS drone, but yet we don’t know if it was a wing, a plane or what. In fact there was a media report of a drone flying at night, police were called, turned out to be a plane with a ton of lights on it. So maybe you fly your planes responsibly, but that isn’t always the case. I’m tired of being lumped in with any irresponsible pilot of any aircraft, UAS, period. Sadly anyone says drone now a days it’s always the multirotor to blame. Get off the high horse, and stand united with the multirotors or you will find ALL UAS illegal, and the Feds won’t care what it is.
Well said! So glad to read an intelligent comment in defense of responsible and safety conscious “drone” pilots. I too hate that term being applied to multirotors.
“Drone ” is the so called name to all our RC aircraft
Next time I hear anyone – especially an RC hobbyist – call my little Parkzone foamie a “drone” I am going to punch them. They are not drones! They have been referred to as “model aircraft” for nearly 100 years! Why do people feel the need to call small planes with no camera equipment “drones”?
I also hate the name “drone”. I bought a QUADCOPTER not a drone. If they insist I call it a drone maybe I should equip it with radar,weapons and a video system so it would be a real drone?
Drone is the new buzz word and WRONGLY used. However it fits the bill for the restrictions they intend to impose. They have been pounding this word into public’s mind as propaganda because for those who don’t know what a drone really is, this works wonders for their intentions.
We will all hang together or separately…I have been “Hanging Separately” sense Aug of 1981 and it is little comfort really that a bunch more are adding their weight to the tree limb…You all get to see how the “Oligarchy unto itself”-the FAA works now…and I for one will not obey any altitude restriction at all ! My hawk,eagle,raven,and sand hill crane friends fly FREE ! 4 of my 7 sailplanes do not even have motors and if I launch them according to FAA rules from my local ridge sight I will have to throw them into the dirt !!! [which has happened on occasion but not because of FAA rules ;)}
Dean that was wonderful. I don’t think I’ve heard this put so well. I may quote you on some of this should an opportunity arise, however I can’t say I’ve flown a real plane or built one from scratch. You sound very skilled. I primarily fly multi-rotor and I appreciate your way of thinking. It’s a shame many disagree. Thank you and stay safe.
the USPA had the same problem when wingsuits became all the rage.
the job of AMA is to promote and protect the hobby and promote saftey.
i will now renew my membership after reading this post!
I disagree a bit. Semi-autonomous UAVs/quadcopters are a bit different than the classical RC environment I was brought up in. Repeating part of my comment above, Yellowstone (and presumably other places) are dealing with pollution from crashed UAVs.
They’re also marketing the Lily drone to follow you around when you’re skiing. Ski mountains are getting crowded. I already almost get hit regularly by people holding out GoPro selfie sticks on the mountain – I can’t imagine what it’ll be like when I have to also check the airspace around me and the jumps I am going to hit. Also, not really sure what dumb things people will do when their >$100 drone runs out of batteries and lands in the middle of a path or puts someone else at risk.
This is a bit different than the classical RC world I was raised in. You had to take lessons to learn how to stay off the ground for >30 seconds, and in the lessons they’d make your responsibility towards other people’s safety crystal clear. Now, clueless people can easily pick up a drone with computer assisted flying, and do really unsafe things with it. There’s also a difference between ‘keeping your eye’ on an RC craft versus some UAVs where you’d be flying them off a limited mounted-camera view.
I think you are right that RC planes are potentially just as dangerous as drones, or more-so, but from an operator standpoint, mass marketed UAVs scare me a lot more. What does this mean practically? Well, I’d rather see ‘licensing’, ‘verified training’, or ‘AMA membership’ before registration. Registration just means they can more easily track and penalize someone (which is alright if they’re just trying to ‘stop terrorists’), and maybe it will deter mass market ownership. I’d rather see them take steps to PREVENT idiocy.
None of what you said makes any since at all. I have been flying for about two decades and never that I know of, has there been any training for RC. I, like most people since the 1970’s, have purchased trainer aircraft and then graduated to more advanced planes as budget and skills allow.
Also, the people today are not some how more clueless than the people 30 or even 40 years ago. So, don’t tout government regulation as if it is some kind of smart pill that will magically make people more courteous. After all I think your real complaint(even if you don’t see it) is some kind of Mary Popins style of social politeness.
Licensing does, in no, way help make people better at anything. It is the desire to be better that makes people more responsible. Putting the government in charge of any activity will do nothing more than add regulations that serve only to collect taxes and fees while punishing those who do not follow some B. S. set of rules. I can not imagine that a thinking person would not take a quick look at the DMV, public schools or Obamacare as a practical example of what government bureaucracy does for us.
Your ideas and opinions does not speak of a person of intelligence or a person who believes in personal responsibility, but of a person with a bus patrol mentality that wants to control every aspect of someone elses life while trying to achieve some fictitious and idealistic social nirvana that hovers just out of reach of the common slob. How perfectly Marxist you are to have “the” fix that is the government.
We as a country may not have all the answers as to how to prevent people from doing stupid things, but I do know a communist when I see one and you people with your taxes, regulations, power and control need to go away. Nothing good comes from the government.
Are you on the AMA payrole?
Dean, Thanks for the comments. Could not have said it better myself. I too am a “Drone Pilot”…Scary oooooh!!
Lets all hope for the best…
Thank you, Dean, for a very nice summation of the situation from someone who obviously knows what they’re talking about.
I have to wonder what will happen when the inevitable happens – someone will use a drone in what will be dubbed a “terrorist attack”. Never mind the inconvenient truth that our military has been using unmanned drones for years to attack and kill “the terrorists”, and never mind the fact that these attacks have killed many totally innocent men, women, and children – some day one of our “toys” will be used to kill some Americans on our precious soil, and that will change everything. Suddenly, every drone in the sky will be perceived as being controlled by a terrorist! And “everyone” will feel they have the right to shoot it down!!
I really think all this will happen someday, and it will be the end of this wonderful hobby. And a sad day it will be…
Excellent, well thought tout response. I also applause the AMA for taking a reasoned approach to what appears to be an overkill approach to the perceived issue at hand. I do understand the timing due to Christmas purchases being at an all time high. “drones,” UAVs model airplanes and Helis are all potentially very dangerous. The AMA safety code applied prudently makes for a safer environment and mitigates inherent risks. Having a lot of newbies is a great opportunity for the AMA to reach out and increase membership and thus clout. that opportunity may have been missed. I would advocate a public-private partnership with the FAA to promulgate useful dialog and safety codes. the biggest difference with the multi rotors is that flying (liftoff/landing) can be done from a very small area. My fear is that the legion of new pilots – some of whom will be mischievous may cause all kinds of havoc by flying over property and people causing outcry and demand for tighter regulation.
I been am AMA member for 25+ years. I enjoy building from scratch, kits, and customizing arfs. In the past 5 years I’ve built many aircraft with integrated autopilots such as naza, apm, and pixhawk. I have upgraded everything I fly with a controller capable of automation, including even a boat. Why? Many reasons. Firstly, it is fun integrating this technology into my models. But a huge benefit is safety! I’ve had a radio problem a couple of times, a flight battery go bad one time…and the flight controller automatically went to failsafe and got me home safely. The geofence is a great feature when I’m catching thermals. If I get fatigued or the sun gets in my eyes, I can switch to circle or loiter mode and take a small break immediately and safely. The point is, I’m an AMA member, a model builder+flyer, I love technology, and I fly these so called “drones.” I would like to see us not stereotype people because of what type of flight control we prefer. Don’t group those of us into a separate category because we prefer automated controllers. This is new technology that is very cool and very fun, and simply an advancement in our hobby’s technology.
I couldn’t have stated it any better. Thank you!
+1 Dean. I too have been building and flying model aircraft since childhood. I too have a couple multi rotor aircraft that I fly with my grand children in a safe and responsible manner.
Also, I too take offense to being called one of those dread “Drone Pilots”. That just shows that the ignorance of the public and FAA has reached the AMA membership and that, quite frankly, scares me more than registering my name and address on the FAA website. I have been registered there for over 35 years from being an A&P mechanic and private pilot.
I thank the AMA for defending our hobby and hope that common sense will eventually prevail in this issue.
Agree with you 100%.
The registration of RC where planes, helicopter ( single or multirotor ), and/or UAV is a hasty knee-jerk reflex to an increasing number or irresponsible flyers out there. It is only through education and understanding of the potential of this aircraft which can bring about it safe use. I wonder how many of the drone flyers are AMA members.
Licensed Pilot ( VFR )
AMA Life Member ( Academy of Model Aeronautic )
Drone pilot.
I doubt the FAA will provide modelers insurance or organize RC events and competitions.
Paul Lindewall
AMA 530555
I do understand u feel about quad copter we need vote them out and are club too all be cos them get us more double and we not need this are hands now am a 4099491
What?
Based on what I could understand of what you said I don’t see what the issue is with quadcopters. I think they are great. They are easy to fly compared to other aircraft making it easier for more people to enjoy the hobby. Easier than a helicopter and they require less room than a plane. That and most of them are harmless.
I’ve seen people killed by helicopters and I’ve seen some serious stuff happen because of planes.
In my eyes there is a BIG difference between drone aircraft and quad copter aircraft. Drones are ment to be flown from a computer screen or other type of video device that does not require the pilot to keep an eye on the actual aircraft. Quad copters in my eyes are those aircraft that still need to be flown by line of sight.
Yes I consider you correct Sean I’ve been building quadcopters for just about a year I have no bells and whistles just straight flight from a transmitter I do have an autopilot board but do not have one installed if I just want to watch it fly I will watch someone else but I enjoy the flying still got a lot to learn and gain experience
I think the inherent stability of quad copters makes it easy for poor operators to start flying without training and the accompanied sense of safety.
I think there’s also a difference between autonomous/non-autonomous flying.
I think there’s also a difference between classical naked eye flying and limited-field-of-view camera flying.
The commonality between all of them, I think, is the need for safety training. In our modern terrorism-paranoia world, perhaps people also think registering them is required as well.
As a product development engineer, I can tell you that what makes consumer quad-copters stable is the computer assist. They are specifically designed to appeal to people that would not consider getting pilot training.
Shouldn’t be thrown in with drone pilots, huh? The instructor of the safety class I took recently told us that this was the place for us. Besides that endorsement, I just joined minutes ago because the P3P forums were talking about how the AMA said to wait on FAA registration. I came here for information, to further my education, and for support.
And the third comment is such a nice welcome.
Thrown in with drone pilots!! If they can regulate drones they can regulate all form of RC aircraft. They will eventually get around to YOU with whatever you fly.
Okay FAA who dropped the ball on the registry site. I’m sure anyone that wants to push this technology forward finds themselves held hostage are responsible R/C modelers and builder that enjoy recreational pass time known as ( hobbyist). please do not start office finger pointing to find out who’s on first, who’s on second, and launch the site on third; FAA started the ball rolling it is the FAA responsibility to finish what FAA started.
Clin C thinks that plank flyers “shouldn’t be thrown in with drone pilots” Really Clint? Are you that narrow minded and ignorant to NOT understand that you either ALL STAND TOGETHER or you all HANG SEPARATELY? It’s ignorant and selfish attitudes like YOURS that got this whole mess started. “He flies a Helicopter, I’m not interested. He flies a Multirotor, I’m not interested”… Well how about that? Because of people like YOU, not enough people STOOD UP for their rights (and the rights of “drone pilots” to prevent the government from overstepping their authority and now look, EVERYONE is affected. Way to go Clint. Hope you’ll enjoy your restricted flying privileges…
that in theory is true. register with faa and use you home owners insurance for accident coverage, won’t need ama insurance.
I fly r/c (controlled at all times)and multirotor with GPS where the “unit” can take-off fly and land itself while I go inside my house and eat lunch. My perception is if you are in control of a non GPS driven craft, you should still have your contact info inside the craft. If it is a GPS guided craft, what’s the difference? Either way, you can loose signal / control and it may go flying on for miles before it crashes.
The main problem is multirotor GPS guided craft are cheap, easy to fly, and pre-made. EVERYONE is getting one. Even those who don’t care to keep the hobby safe and fun. Registering them will only keep the honest away from airports and such just as they have been.
Realistically they need to keep track of the GPS guidance “chips” whatever so if they do fly somewhere they shouldn’t, and crash, it may be possible to track it back to the owner.
Registration is useless.
Thank you very much AMA to take this stand. This would be just another step of the Government to control more and more our freedom. My be soon you need a permit to take a leak when you are a the flying field.
i think the gov. is selling air 3 years for $5.00, what a deal.
Thank you AMA! Thank you for your leadership on this issue. Registration does not equal education.If Mr. Huerta wants new flyers to be safer and better educated ,his actions dont show it. The FAA is very close to destroying the best resource available to them.
Thank you AMA Executive Council for a reasoned and measured stance!
Well, AMA, did you learn your lesson?
The FAA lied to you just like everything that comes out of Washington.
As soon as the FAA informed you that they were going to include all model airplanes in their regulatory pervue, you should have walked out of the meetings.
You can not sit down with the FAA over a cup of coffee and teach them how to do regulate us and expect good results. 55 oz to 55 lbs. sounds like a weight range that you gave them. Your AMA 55 lbs. ceiling. An exception up to 55 oz – are you kidding me? That is a joke.
I wish you never would have talked to the FAA; you did more damage than good.
The FAA would have eventually developed the regulations, but the process would have been significantly delayed, and the regulations would be on drones and quad copters only. Not on model airplanes.
You should have separated your organization from drones/quad copters early on. AMA should have represented model airplanes only. When you crossed the line and associated model airplanes with drones/quad copters, then the model airplanes were included with the drone/quad copters regulations. THIS IS WHERE YOU SCREWED UP.
You were attempting to increase your membership by including drones/quad copters, and it will cost the airplane modelers dearly.
Congress exempted model airplanes, not drones/quad copters. Drones/quad copters are not model airplanes, they are machines.
Show us that you have OUR best interests at heart, and not just creating a parallel database that exempts us from registering directly with the FAA. You need to send a dozen high-powered attorneys to go there and fight for us.
Don’t make another mistake and turn over YOUR database to the FAA and “register” for us. That is private information for which you have no right to disclose to the FAA without the approval of each and every member.
If this comes to realization, the only place you will see model airplanes will be in a museum, and it won’t be AMA’s museum.
Like many other dues-paying AMA members I fly planes, helicopters and multirotors. The attempts here to separate one species of aircraft from another are exactly what our opponents want. Divide and conquer is the oldest tactic in the book. And the last time I looked this organization is called the Academy of Model Aeronautics, not the Academy of Model Airplanes. How would a 54 pound twin-turbine jet airplane fit under that title while a three pound quadcopter does not? Many of us remember the moaning and groaning not long ago when “traditional” helicopters became popular. Now those are routine and the next innovation becomes the favored feed of Chicken Little. Some things never change in a constantly changing world, and the one of those is the unfortunate tendency to think that only whatever oneself is flying, driving, riding etc. is the be-all and end-all of its sort, while everything else is unworthy rubbish.
Im assuming you have no problem taking my membership dues as a drone pilot. Ever heard of solidarity? The media has hyped the drone issue about a million times more than reality. How about standing up for your hobby instead of yourself?
Did you forget your pill this morning? Model planes and helicopters are both model aircraft, helicopters can have many blades, they are still helicopters, and aircraft. There really is no real difference, in fact airplanes may be more dangerous as they tend to be harder to control and generally go much faster.
This registration business is all politics, it is the “we have to do something” attitude. I am a life member of the NRA, and I can guarantee you that even if the Constitution of the United States gave us the “right to fly model aircraft” it would not stop the politicians from “doing something”.
Sorry, but Fixed Wing and Heli’s ARE NOT both model aircraft.
AMA #1527
They ARE both aircraft seeing as they both fly in the air
Real Aircraft serve two purposes.. Transportation of people or cargo or as weapons delivery. My Model Airplanes and Helis do neither. They are replicas and in some cases just experimental models that happen to fly. They serve no other purpose than to fly around in circles or do aerobatic tricks.. They are not DRONES.
It’s comments like YOURS that make me question the intelligence level of plank flyers… Do you REALLY believe that, or are you just one of those curmudgeons who thinks that only airplanes qualify for time on the field? While I realize that you most likely don’t have the skill set to fly helicopters, or multirotors, some of us are capable of three dimensional thinking and are able to translate that talent into controlling complex aircraft.
Jim, even CONGRESS waived AIRCRAFT ONLY from these regulations but AMA included “drones” period, without input from us the owners of AMA as it’s a member driven org. Also, I like most do, fly all things, one of the first to do turbines, heli’s, quad’s and as a pro drummer of over 55 years,I find your comment about skills funny and also demeaning to all r/c pilot’s that obviously have skills to fly what they enjoy to.
Gambo, multirotors ARE aircraft. There’s nothing in Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 which limits “aircraft” to your particular delusion of what it is.
Please try not to be closed minded about model aviation to exclude mutirotors. Just because we don’t fly some form of aircraft shouldn’t exclude them, I should hope we aircraft enthusiasts stand up for each other. I have been with the AMA since the 80’s. I fly all kinds of planes, heli and multi rotors. I like to fly competitively in everything so I’m into the cool cutting edge stuff. I have held many offices in local clubs and taught hundreds over the years to fly safely. Muti rotors are fantastic and lots of fun to many pilots. I have 5 myself, some for photography and some to race multiGP etc. Yes some guys just buy and fly depending on GPS and unfortunately fly in very hazardous locations. They have no idea why we stress safety and haven’t witnessed ESC’s fry, servos letting go, radio interference etc etc. I blame the manufactures who market these products this way. This is now our issue. Remember, It’s not what you fly it how you fly. I wish we could forget registration. I wish we could require everyone to have AMA or a government insurance alternate if they wanted but somthing. Maybe AMA cards should have a exam & instructor sign off box and the FAA card could do the same if someone didn’t want AMA and ask AMA club instructors to check out these buy and fly pilots before they can fly alone until instructors/testers outside the clubs were setup. Possibly charging a few bucks for flight test and written exam for reimbursement only. Requiring your name and address and telephone number on every aircraft doesn’t need a database. I don’t have all the answers but know at least pilots should have some training and testing. Registration alone does nothing for education.
John: I think your comments are very well thought-out. In order to “get our wings” at the Frankenmuth Aeromodelers, we have to be trained by an instructor using a buddy cord, and at the end, before we fly solo, we have to perform basic flight manouvers and how to check our airplanes before and after we fly them. We have a checklist we have to have filled out by another instructor than the one we learned with. I think the worst mistake was the development of the “teach yourself to fly” aircraft, including the multi-rotors. If you really want to learn to fly, that’s what AMA instructors are for. It took me a long time to learn to fly. But it was worth it.
And believe me, we all watch out for each other at the Frankenmuth Aeromodelers.
Planes have the exact same technology as quad-copters, why trust some and not others? it is the same as saying ” I am a good driver so I shouldn’t have to get a license..just stupid ideas..if one has to register then everyone should have to register! just pay the 5 bucks and get over yourself!!
First of all planes do not have the same technology as a quad does. We have people that cant fly a plane but fly a quad only because of the computer system in them. It is now a principle of the money and the 336 that exempted the planes from this mess.
Apparently you never flew a Quad. If you shut it off it will fall out of the sky. If you shut off a plane or Heli it will stay aloft either by auto-rotation or wings. A quad cant auto-rotate except one model of quad a stingray 500 with collective pitch and that may not auto rotate either so back to the original statement they are not the same.
The problem is flying a drone takes zero skill which creates a bigger issue with the non AMA members that fly these devices.
336 doesn’t exempt “planes”, it exempts “model aircraft”, you know, any model that flies.
Registration means confiscation 100% of the time!
So, how do you get around with all of your cars having been confiscated?
Cars are registered by State and County…They are not federally registered.
When will they be taking our registered vehicles, pets, guns, and everything else then? We’ve been registering cars for a very long time now. How do you suppose they would confiscate them and where would they put them all? Same with dogs, and whatever other pets and animals require registration.
Also, we aren’t required to register our “drones”. We register our name and address. I seriously doubt they will be performing nationwide raids to search our homes for unknown toys to confiscate.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to “register” them when purchased?
Nice idea but would keep a lot of new commers from getting into the hobby
ya!!!!!!! back ground checks for rc aircraft flyers. requiring metal health checks, are u an illegal alien, are u a terrorist???!!!!!!!!
congratulations. keep fighting to get a reasonable FAA that is supportive of model aviation. Thank you very much.
Nickolaus E. Leggett Licensed pilot of full-scale airplanes, gliders, and balloons. Inventor and analyst. AMA Member.
Great. However if you’re going to proclaim yourselves as a regulatory agency for “members who are not the problem” then you are going to have to disassociate yourselves from those who ARE (the majority of) the problem. Namely multi-rotor and FPV fliers, as most of the reported incidents that have led to this ruling have been about such.
Otherwise you will be proclaiming your own members as being the problem.
Nicely put !!
This is ridiculous.
So does this all mean that we will now be requir to have 2 forms of ID on our multirotor -so,maybe we should require 3 or 4 forms of identification I think this would make it all much safer (really)
AMA is standing up for its members? How can a group stand up for its members while also discussing how to streamline the FAA registration process for its members? That is like telling them according to Section 336 of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 these new rules are illegal. But then also saying how do we make this easy for our members to register! Sounds like the AMA knows they are going to loose the argument before they start.
all this FAA reg. stuff was and is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that ”normal” rc flyers didn’t create. I’ve been flying for 50 years. All the situations that are not rc flyers are not covered. What about model rocketeers, guys that fly thermal sniffing gliders and altitude contests, or distance/endurance contests.
How can you possibly teach someone to fly under these ridiculous rules.
For example: if you use a buddy-box and the airplane is registered to the training pilot, that makes the student in violation weather he is registered or not, because he is flying someone else’s airplane; and the training pilot is now in violation because he let someone else fly HIS airplane. Legally you can not have two people flying the same airplane.
Even if you reverse the scenario, you still have two people in violation.
So then, don’t use a buddy box – right? No, wrong. As soon as the training pilot takes the transmitter away from the student, to “save” the airplane, HE is in violation for flying the STUDENT’s airplane. The airplane is not registered to the training pilot, and now the student is in violation for letting the training pilot fly HIS airplane.
So the student ends up having to self-teach, because legally that is the only way they can do it.
The student ends up crashing or violating airspace because he is untrained.
Now, what if the registered student decides that he doesn’t like to fly, can’t afford it, or are just not capable of doing it. Now, since he registered, they are considered a flyer and in the FAA database forever, and for no reason.
There are no allowed exemptions or acceptions in the rules for this.
None of this was an issue until the FAA decided to issue these rules.
I would think that the FAA would want to encourage training for new pilots.
Didn’t anyone think this through? The whole regulation is madness.
Gentlemen and ladies:
It would appear that no one has paid full attention to the E-mail we members received yesterday, that explained that the reason for us to not register at this time, is that there is litigation pending to force the court(s) to review the new regulations prior to any proposed enforcement of the new law, which has already been published in the federal register. I have read the full content of those 211 pages, and as far as I can tell, the FAA is indeed in violation of the congressional order concerning “model aircraft”, per se. How convenient that the legal system is on hiatus for the holidays, as is congress, so that we the people have no redress to this action prior to its implementation. I suggest to each and every one of you that you contact your congressmen and senators forthwith and protest in the strongest terms that this behavior is not to be tolerated and that if allowed to pass without due process, they will certainly answer for this illegal action at election time. THAT is the proper action for us to take at this time. Meanwhile, the many pages of Blog-blather that I have read here serve no other purpose than to inflame the collective tempers of our AMA members, without accomplishing much else. I for one fully support our leadership in this fight with the beaurocracy’s blatant disregard for congress’s original intent of the “model aircraft” exception to the current law, and I hope that you all will as well. HOWEVER, I also agree with the FAA’s belief that there should be some method of maintaining the safety of the NAS in light of the explosion (that IS coming) of sUAS usage without education per the FAR’s as they stand, as most of the “sheeple” have no idea of the consequences of operating outside of the NAS regulations. This is the quandary we must face together. I would therefore ask for a (very) little patience until after the holidays, to see if indeed the courts will support our protest of the new law. Meanwhile I strongly urge all of you to contact our representatives in congress repeatedly, until they respond.
I agree total. in 2014 Going through the forums, I found a letter from Bob Violett addressed to the AMA president back in 2014 warning of this exact scenario. It’s a shame they didn’t listen.
https://www.bvmjets.com/Safety/AMA0714-1.pdf
Just a thought; It seems to me that this situation is similar to the “assault rifle” argument. If we restrict, register, or ban “drones or AR15s ” it will solve all of the problems. RIGHT!!!! It will just mean that only the ones that have no respect for the law will have these, and those of us that are responsible will be without. I believe that the vast majority of the “drones” are sold to folks who do not plan to join AMA, or learn the safety guidelines that are a must. These “drones” are sold everywhere, e.g. Walmart, Frys, Target, Amazon, ect., and they sell a lot of them. Have we noticed a rapid rise in the AMA membership? I don’t remember reading anything about that. Anyway, thanks for the venting…
New information states that the database will be searchable AND MADE PUBLIC.
So not now the FAA wants to violate the privacy act that they claim in the initial registration.
I would have no problem registering my flying models IF the AMA is the middleman for this whole thing. I’m not comfortable with my name and address being searchable by the public on the FAA website and it also effects my security clearance for work.
Let’s think of this situation. Just say you lose your flyer in the wind or some sort of failure and a person finds it in their backyard. Let’s go worst case and this person thinks he/she is being spied on. Now they can show up at your doorstep and confront you? Not a smart idea at all. None of this should be able to be handled by the public. If anything they should only be able to contact the AMA and then the AMA will handle the situation. Keep the FAA out of this unless it’s something that is actually criminal. End rant.
For anyone interested in asking the FAA about these rules for themselves, the direct phone number is (202) 267-8306.
Or Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
Phone: (202) 267-3883
I called and they actually called me back. This is the office that the FAA says is in charge of the “new” registration, and where I was told on Dec 16th while on a phone call with them, that if I am flying at a designated model flying field, under the current AMA guidelines that I did not have to register for anything. If that is true, it means it exempts most of us community flying field flyers and not the over my/your house video spy-ers.
Give them a call.
So much back and forth on drone vs. model aircraft. I enjoy flying planes and helis from private property, I also fly from AMA sanctioned flying fields. I would gladly forgo my freedom from flying at home, if I wouldn’t have the restriction on height at my sanctioned fields while learning aerobatics, trying to stay under 400′. Instead of all the air space in the USA being a free for all, why not only being able to legally fly from AMA Registered, FAA approved flying sites. It would keep everything contained, call it “RC Air Space” if you will. If you fly outside the designated area you are in violation, the concept should be pretty easy for law inforcement to keep track of. I beleive that It would be extremely difficult for someone to show up with terroristic intentions and get very far with their plans.
Drone pilots you are welcome to join us but, I would bet most would be board to tears flying in confined space by summers end. So how I see it is where drones can fly is the real issue which is about anywere, with limited operator input. Most of us would have a real problem getting their quarter scale model plane, or 60 sized model helicopter off the ground in down town metropolitan areas or sneak around their neigbors, or crash it at Yellow Stone. In my eyes Drone pilots are on their own. Yes we both have aircraft, but the real issue is where we both fly not what we fly!!! The sole purpose I have AMA is to be allowed to fly at my club field. Why is AMA going out on a limb for Drone aircraft operaters when the majority don’t even require AMA insurance to fly? I imagine this concept won’t get very far, because it won’t line the pockets of the few.
Regards.
I’m sorry but I don’t understand what the big deal is with having to register your device/model-craft/drone. You would have already been registering with the AMA, now you are just registering with the FAA. If we kept the regulations that the wright brothers started out with and never evolved them to account for evolving hazards/environment in the national airspace system, things would be unsafe. As new risks emerge, regulations must evolve too! I fully support the FAA in requiring everyone to register their devices/models/drones. If you were to make a compelling argument (other than “the intent of section 336 says we don’t need to register”) perhaps you would have better luck… but given the nature of this evolving technology and eminent risks involved, I highly doubt it!
How has the AMA taken a stand ? Really 3 years in prison $250,000 fine .5 to 55 lbs and not just Drones don’t even refer to my 40+ aircraft and Heli’s to drones. Don’t compare me to the idiots that fly over controlled airfields and other places these morons fly. This ruling makes me sick, I don’t mean any disrespect either but other than organize fly ins what does the AMA do for us let us use there property at IRCHA weekend. Do you know anyone that has use them for liability reasons ? I don’t and I’ve been in this sport a long time. This FAA ruling is here to stay rest assured. I just listened to Erin Dobbs and Chris Savage a Graphic Designer and Marketing guy at AMA tell me to hold off on registering until the FAA changes there ruling or so we can use our AMA number… are you kidding me. These guys are telling me this will be educational process, I have shoes older than them two. I have over 25,000 hours and every rating you can get in real airplanes. This rule will stand and will get worse. These clowns made a commit about cars being registered on our roads and being about the same, its not the same there are bikes mopeds and other things on the roads all the time that need not be registered. Our little model aircraft are dangerous in the wrong hands just like a hammer that kills 500 people a year basically anyone with a 1/2 pound toy will need to register and give the government their tax. That is fine with me but the AMA should go bye bye and make these fields FAA compliant then. I don’t need anymore cards in my wallet. I think we should all be private pilots too, why not that would be safer. Like guns the idiots will still have them and do stupid things just like UAS’s. We ALL need to say no to this and not register, ALL of us together. Why do we continue to let the government make us pay for the stupid people in this country and the stupid things they do… I guess this is freedom right.
I also think for AMA members the Government has exceeded the need to register model aircraft. I fly full size and have for the last 45 years and RC for almost 50 yrs and never had an incident. Uncontrolled drone flying from people not trained or understanding the responsibility have driven the country to this point. In the last month or so a helo had a quad go through the windshield and fortunately not hurt the pilot or force a landing. This was totally irresponsible and I don’t want to hit a quad in my plane as the damage would be extensive and could lead to loss of life. I support the AMA in the delay action and hopefully can work something out. My fear is government will sustain it’s position of not listening.
No news for 6 days on this topic! What is happening with AMA and FAA — anything?
This has to be too easy….why not require registration as part of the purchase? Works with cars, guns, stuff like that…..too easy! Not enough to complain about?
if we wait till feb. the 30 day free reg. will have passed. and if your effort to help us reg. fails will we have to pay the $5.00 ?
How has the AMA taken a stand ? Really 3 years in prison $250,000 fine .5 to 55 lbs and not just Drones don’t even refer to my 40+ aircraft and Heli’s to drones. Don’t compare me to the idiots that fly over controlled airfields and other places these morons fly. This ruling makes me sick, I don’t mean any disrespect either but other than organize fly ins what does the AMA do for us let us use there property at IRCHA weekend. Do you know anyone that has use them for liability reasons ? I don’t and I’ve been in this sport a long time. This FAA ruling is here to stay rest assured. I just listened to Erin Dobbs and Chris Savage a Graphic Designer and Marketing guy at AMA tell me to hold off on registering until the FAA changes there ruling or so we can use our AMA number… are you kidding me. These guys are telling me this will be educational process, I have shoes older than them two. I have over 25,000 hours and every rating you can get in real airplanes. This rule will stand and will get worse. These clowns made a commit about cars being registered on our roads and being about the same, its not the same there are bikes mopeds and other things on the roads all the time that need not be registered. Our little model aircraft are dangerous in the wrong hands just like a hammer that kills 500 people a year basically anyone with a 1/2 pound toy will need to register and give the government their tax. That is fine with me but the AMA should go bye bye and make these fields FAA compliant then. I don’t need anymore cards in my wallet. I think we should all be private pilots too, why not that would be safer. Like guns the idiots will still have them and do stupid things just like UAS’s. We ALL need to say no to this and not register, ALL of us together. Why do we continue to let the government make us pay for the stupid people in this country and the stupid things they do… I guess this is freedom right.
I’m with you and will not register. I’ve been modeling since the 1950’s and have thousands of hours as a professional pilot, both military and civilian. This is a Freedom issue for me. If they want to arrest 70 year old modelers who have been flying for half a century let them have at it. I say don’t register. If thousands of model fliers don’t register the FAA won’t be able to do a thing about it. We need to stick together on this.
I am very frustrated with the ama. I just read that renewing my membership with the ama automatically registers me with the faa. I am very upset about this….. I fly planes under the 8oz limit and would like to make my own choice in regard to whether the us government gets even more into my private business. Unfortunately the ama has tried to make this decision for me and has just lost a long time member- I will not be renewing my membership unless this policy is changed.
I have been an AMA member since 1956 and fly electric powered radio controlled and free flight small model planes on a private farm at the invitation of the owner. I do not understand why the FAA feels it necessary to ask that all rc planes that weigh more than 250 grams register and what they hope to accomplish with that.
I can’t think of an incident where a full size aircraft was interfered with by a model airplane flown by an AMA member. It seems to me that most of the problem with drones flying near full size aircraft have been by quad copters flown by press, photographers, police, and other people who are flying commercially of new to the hobby. These people need to be educated about the dangers, but AMA members are aware of and have complied with AMA safety regulations for decades. Our Congress has spoken on this subject and exempted model aviation from FAA efforts to regulate drone flying.
The FAA regulation should be revised to exempt line of sight flying of model aircraft. As the regulation is currently written, it is confusing and misguided and needs to be revised for drone and FPV fliers.
Pat
I’m giving up the hobby after thirty five years of flying RC and recently small drones. I think I’ll take up a hobby with less stringent regulation… Something like competitive shooting.
Congratulations on doing the right thing, taking on an unbridled FAA. Making all model aircraft people, including hundreds of thousands of new drone owners, pay $5, give our name and address, so the FAA can give us a number, which people can lookup and see our name and address is nuts. ..and leave it to local authorities to enforce, with no funds. It is not a step toward safer skies. The AMA ‘s education, club-efforts and other like it are.
It’s not a step towards safer skies, it’s one more step towards total government control!
No it isn’t. This will help us protect the hobby when someone does something and they aren’t an AMA member. Then it’s on the FAA.
No it wont because We are AMA members that have rules for safety already. If someone does not belong to AMA then they have a complete disreguard for the hobby. Don’t associate us with them by letting this law pass
I’ve been a pilot for years shopping at several local hobby shops and never once has any owner or other pilot I’ve met mention the AMA so I’m not a member. It wasn’t until just recently I learned of the AMA. I fly safe and responsibly always. I’m not a member of the AMA but it’s not because I have a disregard for the hobby.
Is there an AMA group in every city or town to join?
Try the AMA club search tool https://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx
That’s one of the problems the AMA has had for years – NOT ENOUGH VISIBILITY AND EXPOSURE. This should have been taken care of years ago. EVERY distributor of model aircraft R/C or not should be REQUIRED to disclose information about the AMA to any and all customers. An easy way to do this is to REQUIRE a sticker on the item and information booklet at the point of sale and to stress to the customer about the AMA and the IMPORTANCE of it for any and all flying activity.
Looks like I can’t reply directly to Quadcopter Pilot’s question about local AMA “group”.
Anyway, even if there isn’t a club close to you, you can join the AMA. They’ll still be trying to defend the hobby, including your part of it, so you’ll be supporting that. AMA isn’t necessarily my favorite organization in every single way, but who else is going to pay the lawyers?
Your statement is exactly why I stopped paying membership fees to AMA. It was the uppity dinosaur ‘good ole boys club’ mentality that drove me away. Now I’m one of the dinosaurs flying the new technology and liking it much more than crash and burn planes of 30-35 years ago when I flew 48’s and gliders. It was not possible to fly out of LOS; lose orientation and you were screwed. Radios were expensive, the batteries sucked and nitro was expensive, messy and maintenance a PITA. Ah yes, the good old days.
BTW, there have been multiple deaths and accidents over the years caused by R/C planes. Just do a simple search. The payload of many of these “model aircraft” could wipe out several people in a crowd of spectators. So all the railing against “drones” is just smoke in mirrors. 400 mph jets, huge scale model R/C planes with payloads that could take out a bus. And AMA members are getting their panties in a bind about toy 1.5kg quadcopters mucking up their Exclusive Club. To date there has been exactly…..ZERO deaths caused by a multirotor model aircraft.
I am in no way against “model aircraft”, which in my mind includes quadcopters (multirotors) as well. I will not register with the FAA ever because it is not a law passed by Congress. It is illegal and violates the 8th Amendment right off the bat, no due process and not to forget the FAA is in clear violation of Section 336 as everyone knows.
I digress.
What is the one piece of equipment that has changed R/C flying? It isn’t using 4 motors aka a “quadcopter”. It isn’t the fact the hobby is much more affordable. It is the flight control system which, if you use Arducopter for example (Pixhawk etc.) will work on planes, helicopters, 4/6/8+ multirotors and ground vehicles.
Multirotor haters are, in my opinion, living in a bubble. Years ago nitro helicopters were very difficult to fly. Then came the electrics……still hard to fly but more affordable. Even small planes took a lot of skill and experience to keep in the air. Nowadays they are as easy to fly with little experience. The difference is today a pilot can plan missions regardless of the type of craft, and far away from LOS (well you could “see” it still) without consequence using FPV without autonomous flight. Flight controllers have accelerometers, gyros, barometers, GPS and sophisticated code to make it all work. And these FC systems make it much easier (and safer IMO) for pilots.
As for threats to the public and/or national security, a multirotor would be a poor choice as a weapon. A modestly sized foamy plane can carry heavy loads and travel 20, 30 even 50 miles to its target, fly low, high and fast and everything in between for hours at a time, and arrive within a few meters precision. This can all be done on a tablet or phone anonymously from a remote spot. Oh, and the perpetrator can watch it all in real time, then post his flight on YouTube. Yes there are bogeymen around every corner.
Question: suppose you don’t register your name with the FAA. How are they going to enforce it? Local LEA’s? How? Who’s going to fund it? Oh that’s right, FAA will “share the wealth” from the fines. My son is an attorney and would love to represent the first “convicted” felon of a non-existent law levying heavy fines and imprisonment not authorized by statute, all for not having his ID registered with the FAA. Does $27,500 and 3 years prison sound like the punishment fits the “crime”?
The fact that someone is not an AMA Member does not delegate them to a lesser class of hobbyist or safeness. Anyone that can read knows what the recommended flight procedures are. As a hobbyist that has no ties to any hobby club, and yes, the AMA is just a club, I find it offensive that you would insinuate that being an AMA Member makes you a safer flyer.
This regulatory overstep by the FAA is just another move by the Socialist agenda in Washington to keep tabs on who has what, so they know which doors to knock on when they want to take it away.
It is just another move towards total government control because all they had to do is mandate AMA membership and an AMA number. The AMA has been around for 80-years and it has proven it can get the job done. Why does the FAA ( part of the government ) all of a sudden have to step. Watch out folks; we are on slippery slopes.
And if I decide to leave the hobby years from now could I unregister or will I be tagged with an FAA number along with privacy risks the rest of my life?
another issue not covered by the FAA. What’s next, mass confusion!!!!!!!!
Next up on the FAA’s list will be a NRPM that you will have to possess an A&P license to build a model airplane…. I repeat my “call-to-arms” to contact your congressmen and senators and LOUDLY protest the FAA’s illegal actions. This beaurocracy has overstepped their bounds yet again, and needs to be brought to heel. It happens about every other election cycle. Remind those in the Capitol that they work for US, NOT the other way ’round, and they will be FIRED on election day if they do not do their jobs, and we will see some action on this matter in short order.
These things could get sucked into an aircraft engine and kill people or fall from the sky and injure someone. I’m sorry, but your hobby is potentially harmful to people and it must be regulated. I fully support the FAA in requiring you to register your device/model/drone. If you have a better way, then proposed an alternate solution… instead of complaining.
The aforementioned (remote) possibilities are the reasons we fly away from airports, and people and below 400 feet. Anyone violating those rules is already criminally negligent. Why exactly to we need new fees and databases to improve the situation??
By the way, you are correct, they work for us to ENSURE SAFETY. That is their job and they are doing it.
Get donald trump on their behinds.
Thank you AMA for taking this stand for us!!
Good luck. I predict on 19 February we’ll be registering. And probably will have even further angered the Federal agency that controls the medium in which we operate….oops – hope to operate.
Good job having such a negative view of this Frank. Seriously, attitudes like yours do not help at all. It is obvious the AMA is just trying to help keep out freedoms and rights…which the FAA is stepping all over…smarten up man!
Thumbing our noses as the agency that has authority to regulate the medium in which we operate, with powerful people in Congress calling on FAA to take action, it monumentally poor strategy. If administrative controls like registration fail or are openly resisted, next is operational controls like no flight above 400′ agl anywhere, no flight in lateral confines of class B, C, or D airspace, tec. Be careful what you wish for (AMA resistance of FAA), you just may get it.
There are few problems that cannot be made worse.
Frank, you have to do some serious fact checking. In 2012 Congress PROHIBITED the FAA from regulating model aircraft. The FAA is now ILLEGALLY trying to regulate; as if they are above the law.
Congress is speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Go to CSPAN, search drones safety and watch the Oct 7th hearing. The Transportation and Infrastructure Committee directs the FAA to set up this registration process. Some on this committee even talk about forcing all “drones” to have gps and technology to limit where they can fly. AMA was there and attempting to represent us, but so were the Airline Pilot’s Association who is feeding the frenzy with false near-miss reports.
Chris,
What Congress passes can easily be repealed. It’s not written in stone and if Congress were to debate this openly, do you really think our puny community of modelers would hold sway in a discussion over aviation security? I want the same privileges you do. I’ve been flying since 1973. But I also believe that this latest instruction is an attempt by the AMA to assuage members because after several years, they came up empty-handed. Why would we NOT register for free and hedge our bet that the AMA doesn’t lose their lawsuit?
MK
I have read the FAA’s analysis of their authority to do this and I am convinced. I’ll be registering on Monday, saving myself the trouble of doing it at the last minute when AMA finally realizes they’ve lost this round.
Illegally? You mean like Obamma does every day?
Exactly, The FAA did not just create this law out of thin air. The need for this regulation is supported with hard data illustrating the eminent danger associated with the improper use of these devices/models/drones. The FAA has a duty to ensure the safety of the NAS, safety risk is there, they need to control it.
To those that oppose this, why don’t you start proposing alternatives (that address the risks) instead of complaining? That would be far more productive.
I would rather we go down fighting like the patriots did, rather than put up our hands and say “have your way with us” This kind of spending member money I can get behind. It has worked for the NRA so far. The only thing needed for evil men to prevail is for good men to do nothing. Thank you AMA.
I agree completely sir. My other comments elaborate. Everyone thinks the government is out to get them. If this becomes a huge battle they can just ban all of it to settle it.
They can ban it? Really? Just like a little kid, take his marbles home…so that’s how OUR PAID VOTER ELECTED act?
So our forefathers were idiots for resisting King James?
Good job having such a negative view of this Frank. Seriously, attitudes like yours do not help at all. It is obvious the AMA is just trying to help keep our freedoms and rights…which the FAA is stepping all over…smarten up man!
If you want to talk freedom and rights… what about those on the ground and those in manned aircraft?? There is hard data to illustrate that the improper use of these devices/models/drones is potentially fatal. As the hazards/environment in the national airspace system evolve, so to should our regulations. I cannot believe that everyone is complaining about having to fill out a 2-3 minute form… really??? It could save lives.
Where is this “hard data”? NO actual aircraft has EVER been damaged by a drone. It’s already illegal to operate model aircraft in close proximity to an airport. If someone is operating there, there are already laws in place, so there’s no need for this ILLEGAL registration attempt by the FAA.
Are you for real? This is nothing more than a feeble attempt by those that prey on fear to take away liberties of the free and innocent. By having to register, those fear mongers are only saying that they expect us to do something bad or illegal. What ever happend to being innocent before being proved guilty? Grow a back bone and be free. AMA, thank you and keep up the good fight.
Ummm ever read the news? People are doing illegal things with drones and planes. I’d rather have FAA regs with it than to have it banned altogether.
Innocent until proven guilty??!!… Really?! that’s just another way that the government can get away with things. Its never been that way in the court system. Its always been guilty until proven innocent. that is why we have to fight for our freedoms
Your comment is very dramatic. This is not Braveheart, this is the safety of our national airspace system. As the hazards/risks evolve, so to should our regulations. All this drama for 2-3 minutes to fill out a form. Really?? It could save lives.
Frank, the FAA has never been in business to help anyone but themselves. Don’t worry about making them mad, “FAA do what FAA do”. I have been a commercial pilot for 30 years, and FAA is just like the IRS – they take because they can. Kudos to the AMA for manning up.
For those of you who are going to cave-in like a cheap tent and register because you are afraid, and want the FAA to bless you with a secret code for your airplane, this is the way it is likely to go:
The FAA will likely screw up your name, physical address, or email address, esp. with people having the same last name;
Different pilots will be issued the same number;
You may be issued someone else’s number;
Or a combination of all of the above.
The FAA never seems to answer their phone, so to correct the errors you will be directed to their email system. Have you ever tried to correct something over email? It will take weeks or months to correct the errors.
If you are ever able to speak with the FAA to try and resolve the error(s), they will proceed to ask you for more information to prove who YOU are, and they always default to your social security number, or other irrelevent, personal information.
If someone is in violation and using your number, YOU will receive the threatening letters, and the burden of proof on YOU to prove otherwise. If the FAA does not have your correct address, then you will never receive the violation notices, and you do not respond within the allowed time frame, your non-compliance will result in their impossing against you the excessive fines and penalties. Next step – collections and levys. Similar to IRS procedures. Good luck with that.
Finally, if you happen to also be a full scale pilot, your pilot’s license, which may be your profession, may now be at risk for violation because of an error in the FAA’s toy airplane database.
By the way, full scale pilot licenses are issued for no fee. Why should modellers have to pay $5? If this is a registry to promote safety, why should there be a fee?
So the whole registration system is pointless. It is just another way to punish the law abiding (modellers, in this case) under the gise of protecting the public from a problem that does not exist.
I can’t wait to give the FAA my credit card number.
OOOOOPS!
It looks like everyone is going to get what the want for Christmas…someone just hacked my credit card!
Thanks to AMA for understanding the definition of the word “promulgating”. The FAA apparently doesn’t. I only wish that the AMAs actions can be within the 30 day window where if we have to unfortunately register it will be “Free”.
I think the possible loss of $5 is well worth the gamble to get this right.
In this case, its not about money it’s about the freedom to fly our models. More precisely, it’s about the government overstepping their boundaries. I have no interest in so-called drones, but I do believe in the right to operate them, regardless of my personal opinion. This is an issue where we all need to take the same stand, or else there can only be one outcome…
As an AMA member, I have to applaud the efforts here. The FAA’s rules here seem intrusive and counterproductive. But I do have to question the advice to “not register” when registration is, currently, free and enforcement at the local level may happen before the AMA could get an injunction or possible a reversal.
I’m not especially worried about people getting my name and address from one of my airframes should it come to that. I had to go through very much the same thing – more in fact, with the testing – when I got a Ham Radio license.
I encourage the AMA to continue your efforts to get this overturned on behalf of both your membership and all the non-member pilots out there. Keep it up!
Mike I agree with you. I am a fellow HAM myself and loosing an airplane is one instance where I think it would benefit on the potential return of the aircraft if a “lookup service” was available. Like everyone else I am disappointed in the way this was executed.
OH the FAA makes it sound so nice that by putting your registration number on your aircraft the authorities will be able to return your lost aircraft. Yeah, right! The authorities will return your aircraft alright, along with a HUGE fine for FAILURE TO CONTROL AN UNMANNED AIRCRAFT. Along with another fine for “Reckless Endangerment” and/or an act of terrorism. For Gods’ sake people, whatever you do, I would NOT register even past the deadline no matter if the AMA wins or not. Listen very carefully to what Section 336 says. We are NOT in violation. The FAA says anyone over 13 years of age must register ALL UNMANNED AIRCRAFT. Since when is a 13 year old a legal adult? That tells you right there this is “Voluntary”. It also says foreigners can optionally register to obtain a “certificate” to fly UNMANNED aircraft but if your a United State Citizen, you MUST register to be issued a number to “Prove” ownership of the UNMANNED model aircraft your flying! Again, the FAA is in absolute no LEGAL position to make you do ANYTHING of the sort. Keep flying, its your RIGHT. Just read and reread Section 336 and read and reread the FFA FAQ’s on registration. Happy Flying!
YES, you should be fined for FAILURE TO CONTROL AN UNMANNED AIRCRAFT. If you cant control your aircraft, then how can you ensure separation?
While I think there is a lot of hyperbole here, rights don’t mean a thing without legal representation to back them up. That’s a very expensive thing. Maybe more expensive than the fines. I doubt that it’s any different now, but I used to watch court arraignments many years ago. If a defendant showed up with a lawyer, they received a whole other kind of treatment. And if you couldn’t hire a lawyer, you might be denied a public defender for arbitrary reasons.
Legitimate question, not being snarky, why is it a forgone conclusion that registration and all the FAA rules should apply to commercial use of sUAS? I mean I understand FAA regulating commercial cargo shipment by sUAS over public property or something like that, but why all commercial use? Why commercial use (such as photography) over private property? If it is safe for doing the activity as a hobby why should it be more regulated when done for money?
Appropriate comment, not snarky at all. Your absolutely right. If I shoot my house and have some great mountain scenery and I sell it, to someone, it’s illegal. But if I give the same person that photograph as a gift it’s not illegal….give me a break. Talk about stupid people drawing a line in the sand this is it. This whole thing is very wacky.
Is it true nobody has been fined to date for commercial use without being certified? If so there must be a good reason they can’t. I know about the 1.2 million threat of a fine toward one company but thats all.
Consider the Paparazzi with drones!!
A company in Florida recently got FAA approval for a drone to be used by news agencies. I for one would not want a 75-LB drone flying over my head in a crowd. Have you seen the videos of law enforcement crashing helicopter drones a few years ago – scary. That’s why commercial drones and operators need to be certified. I see commercialism to be very dangerous in the short term – because, they have been certified and when someone gets killed or maimed, they just say sorry it was an accident.
How about the AMA offering the AMA member list to the FAA as a legitimate registration that falls within the FAA guidelines for model aircraft operator registration. This would encourage non AMA drone operators to join AMA for the AMA Member benefits and insurance if they are also automatically registered with the FAA.
That right there sir is EXACTLY why the AMA and ANYONE who flies WITHIN an organization that implies safety guidelines is EXEMPT from ANY RULE OR REGULATION. DONT REGISTER WHATEVER YOU DO. You don’t have to have the FAA consent to fly or be under ANY of their OBLIGATIONS. Congress already has given us that RIGHT no matter how the FAA Interprets the LAW.The FAA should be sued for FRAUD and COERCIAN not to mention BRIBERY for threatening anyone who doesn’t comply with “THEIR” interpretation of the LAW. According to Congress and Section 336, there shall be no RULES or REGULATIONS made or imposed involving rc model aircraft. FAA just doesn’t want to recognize the LAW and COMPLY. Too bad for them!
We’re already registered through the AMA. Registering your plane is crazy I have multiple planes if we do have to register it shouldnt be each plane but the pilot. If we sell or give a plane away will there be owner transfer paperwork? Over the years we’ve said these are not toys but face it, they are. So the FAA wants toys registered. I’m starting to fly mini war birds if this happens every plane I fly will be .55 lbs or less. Mini planes are a lot of fun. Good luck AMA
Richard, you need to understand and read the law first. It is a registration for you, not your plane. A fee per person, not per plane/craft.
So, the FAA is now registering people huh?
You didn’t have to register each plane. Just one and the number was good for all your aircraft. If you sold a plane that person’s number would need to be displayed or they would need to register. Hopefully the AMA puts this idiocracy rest.
Please correct me if I am wrong but what I have read about this is that the operator only need to register one time every three years and do not have to register each aircraft individually. So you would have one number to put on all of them. Think of it like a drivers license but easier. I was planning on having stickers made with both my AMA & FAA numbers on them so all I have to do is stick & go. Hopefully the AMA can make some headway on using the AMA number in place of the FAA numbers. That would be awesome!!!
Just remember guys, this is a PR campaign by the FAA to make the public (that is beyond fed up with the whole “drone” problem) feel better by making the public think that the FAA can do something about it. There will still be NO enforcement of any of this unless one is flown it restricted air space. Like the one that was flown over the White House, remember hearing about that.
Yup, your idea of sticker is pretty much the way I was planning to do it too, except that I make my own water-slide decals using the Testors supplies. It’s been working for me for a long time.
Is it just too cynical and paranoid to believe the FAA won’t accept the AMA’s proposal because they would have to approach the AMA to get a list of “suspects” in any particular local to follow up on drone complaints??
Yess!!! Thank you AMA, I strongly don’t believe that drones and model aviation should be togeather. Drones should be on a separate deal.
I am not a “drone” pilot. I never have been and never will be. Drone pilots are those remotely fly their military style quadcopter or hexicopters or high altitude surveillance airplanes.
Those are not what we fly at our local club fields and club events. I understand the frustration the FAA is having with this huge influx of radio controlled 3 axis gyro controlled GPS software flying devices. The buzz word has caught on and now they want to include us in this mix.
Please push forward to have congress put a moretrium on this silly law.
NOTICE: THe first page of the AMA website, right next to the
recommentation defer registeration is an ad for ‘Drones.’
Who’s side are they on?
Quad-copters and tri-copters are not ‘drones.’
Civilians can not own ‘drones.’
‘Drones’ carry radar, infared, missles and other armaments.
Only the military has ‘drones.’
It is the media and the advertisers that continue to call them ‘drones.’
Which is damaging to all of us.
They are quad-copters or tri-copters.
When ever they are referred to as a ‘drone’ we need to correct them.
It is just another excuse to hire more government employees to process the forms and issue more needless regulations and fines.
We may not consider ourselves to be “drone” pilots but the FAA considers anyone who flies by remote control to be flying drones. It doesn’t matter what the configuration is be it multirotor, plane, heli, or military it all seems to be arbitrarily grouped under the Drone label now. We have the military to thank for militarizing our hobby and the FAA now considers us a threat.
I think FPV was the real game changer with our hobby. Put a pound of Semtex on your FPV flying machine and what do you get? Take a look at the Youtube video of a Russian hobbyist who mounted a machine gun on a quad. These ideas are what terrifies the FAA.
No problem, I won’t be registering anyway. Unfortunately, everybody won’t band together and NOT register to make a stand, because people don’t want trouble. It’s already here, and it’s already real. They are gonna take money from responsible people, and well, do nothing about people that actually are a problem. Many people will argue that we need to do this and if you don’t, that you are not a responsible pilot. How is this going to change things? Besides take your money. If somebody is planning on using model aircraft in a malicious manner, they are not going to register. Nothing will be done unless something bad happens involving a model aircraft (there are no rc police), but when it does, do you think they will care if you are registered? They just want your model marked so they can track you down.
You’re not alone, I won’t be registering either. I build most of my planes, so there is no record of them even existing. Like you said, this is just another example of the government trying to take our money. Don’t be a fool and don’t be a pushover. Don’t pay these jerks another cent!
FAA registration will be just like gun registration, Stupid and unenforceable! Criminals do not register their guns, the nut cases and jerks will not register their quads or planes. The FAA needs to go after them and leave the rest of us alone! The AMA had better stop this now or they may lose a lot of members. I am a 20 year member of AMA and have both quads and planes and I will not register with FAA.
I’m not registering either. We really should ALL not register…like you said people are too afraid of trouble….and obviously would rather bow down to the illegally reaching FAA. What people don’t realize is that they too are breaking the law by following FAA’s regulation which is illegal since they are ignoring Congress. Wake up people.
I will not be registering either. I’ve urged members of my former club (I just moved away) to not register either.
The AMA knew last summer what the FAA was going to do, which is why the AMA filed their lawsuit in August.
The AMA never informed the members of the result, and then 2 months later increase the membership dues.
I will renew my AMA membership when I see some REAL results, meaning leave it the way it was. Not just a bunch of lip service. These are toy model airplanes. What’s next – registering our children’s legos?
I will not register either.
I read just now that the litigation is still pending. If you don’t want to believe the AMA, that’s your right, I suppose. So the AMA is still spending money on this, but because they can’t make the courts go faster than they do, you’re going to deny them money to fight this? Our legal system is pretty slow these days.
I’ve been reading about full scale aviation for decades. The FAA is often unreasonable, so the real story is that they jumped the gun before the litigation was over and before they were ready. I predict registration will be in a shambles and that very few of the Christmas toys will be registered. Particularly since the guy on the street probably hasn’t heard of the requirement. I’m guessing if the FAA actually made a concerted effort to register those guys, there would be quite an uproar. Lots more of them than us, I would guess.
The solution to everything in this country is lets sue..
however the only winners in a lawsuit are the attorneys and court officials.
Lets not sue …lets pay 5 and lets register.
I want to say to a bystander. . Oh it’s ok i am an FAA registered drone pilot so i am “legal” so no need to get worried or call the police. .get it we are now “legal” to fly..
But if you are flying at an ama field only. then and only then it does not make sense to have to register. .
So i am registering asap and thrilled to tell the next person that challenges my right to fly with HELLO I AM a registered FAA Pilot.. sorry ama nowbody out side the industry knows who you are and every dumb scard civilian will be less likely to call the police if i am FAA registered. So AMA play nice with the FAA..
You’re out of your mind. This is the first step in the FAA’s illegal overreaching. You think the fee is going to stay at $5??? Do you think the safety rules are not going to get tighter to the point they make it impossible to fly?? This is just the beginning of ending the hobby without outright banning it.
Excellent point. Well said.
No they won’t be less likely to call the police. They call the police on military and civilian full-sized aircraft all the time.
Whereas I agree that the new registration rule runs counter to Congress’ intent in Section 336, I’m also of the opinion the FAA has no legal authority to force registration of individuals that own a given piece of equipment. The registration process is clearly geared on owners and not their respective units. Remember ‘Gun Control’? Punish everyone for the actions of a few.
So you are suggesting we wait until the expiration of the free period? So we end up paying?
I’m confused I don’t even own anything that is for aerial photography, and now they’re saying we have to register even if we don’t have those items. I hope the AMA could do something about this! $5 is not that much but I already pay my ama fees too.
Thank you AMA for this action, so far. I urge the AMA to pursue every legal remedy to nullify this lawless action by the FAA. I am still mad as hell 3 days after the announcement. It is just incredible that the FAA would make this total overreach, and completely counter to the law Congress passed. I will not register, regardless, so hope you prevail. If unsuccessful, I will likely let my AMA membership lapse and leave RC flying. The FAA is out to ruin this hobby.
As an AMA member, I’m very concerned with FAA’s blatant disregard of the law applicable to the ‘non-regulation’ of model aircraft. The wait for comment and direction from AMA was painful although I realize that it takes time to discuss and plan a course of action. Thanks AMA!!! My confidence is somewhat restored.
My thoughts are this: the blanket registration of virtually all model aircraft in hobby use will create an absolute mess. A mess for registrants; a mess for hobby stores; a mess for model building companies; and, last, a MESS for the FAA and government. It will be un-manageable and will NOT achieve any of the illusionary goals leading to increase aviation safety. It time it will create a humongous data base of useless and stale data that serves no purpose other than to continue to feed money into the contractor’s trough.
I’ll raise a concern that I believe AMA should also address with this ‘registration’ business: Personal data security. As a retired Federal employee and military retiree, I was informed by the Office of Personnel Management of a ‘breach’ of OPM computers that have compromised my personal information. I have ‘signed’ up for the free protection program (yes, well after the horses are out of the barn!!!) To put a point on it…. what assurances do we have as ‘registrants’ regarding personal data security.
Expanding on my concern. The FAA, very unwisely in my opinion has included 13 year old youths in their expansive and intrusive proposal. This is most unwise. Imagine the pedophiles who have the ability to crack into the system and steal the personal information of a child? It is possible. The AMA should address this issue as well, although we don’t enroll children in AMA programs.
As Club Secretary, I’ll do my best to inform our club members of AMA’s latest position.
As a last suggestion… Please form an email list of Club Presidents and Secretaries. Use it to send information like the above directly to Club principals so we can redistribute it to club members.
Sincerely,
Jim Myers
The FAA hasn’t been an independent Federal Agency for quite some time. It is an Administration that answers to the Department of Transportation. Anthony Foxx, Secretary of the D.O.T., directed Michael Huerta, Administrator of the F.A.A., to register certain model aircraft. This wasn’t Secretary Foxx’s original idea. These guys do not get to this level by bucking the chain of command, no matter what.
Yes let’s take a stand and fight this one
Simple solution – AMA member – then already registered ( AMA and FAA ). Not an AMA member – then must register with FAA. Why then register with the AMA at a higher cost ? Because without the AMA you are not insured and you can not fly at an AMA sanctioned club where you get the most benefits of flying and LEARNING from other like minded R/C pilots.
What if I want to register My LLC to fly the RC aircraft that the LLC Owns.
Greg, go to the FAAs Aircraft Registration page, it indicates how to register aircraft under LLCs. This reg. is sort of mimicking the aircraft registration reg., and more.
The way I see it is that the AMA is trying to do what is right here. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place and are getting squeezed. Think about it. They represent their constituency that is undecided whether they want to stay as members due to inaction, they are trying not to let the FAA run over them, and at the same time trying not to destroy relations with the FAA that they have tried to foster in an effort to allow us the right to keep flying our model aircraft and enjoy our hobby. What they are doing at the moment is at least trying to get clarification how our model aircraft are to be legally classified. It may only be a stop gap measure but at least the approach is correct. There is a petition that already exists that needs to be heard that will either nullify or give credence to the FAA to move ahead with registration of model aircraft. The AMA is not the NRA and we don’t have the Second Amendment backing our right to fly aircraft. The FAA already forces full scale aircraft to have registration numbers and believe they have that same ability but on a much grander scale. Unfortunately I believe the FAA is misguided in their thinking that registration of model aircraft will effectively do any good. Anyone serious about using an unmanned aircraft to perpetrate a criminal act will do so without registering with the FAA. Anyone has the ability to construct a unmanned aircraft and the components needed to do so are unregulated. What I am afraid of is some incident taking place that will restrict flying model aircraft in any airspace deemed too close to areas of interest that will restrict our current flying fields or even shut them down. This will kill our hobby. The majority of our hobby community lives near population centers and this means controlled air spaces. We need protection for the continuation of our hobby and that means we need to continue to join together and speak with one voice. I believe the AMA represents us and is still the means to do that. I will stand with them and their constituency and continue to press for our voice to be heard.
Trying to foster a relationship? Suing the FAA is a crazy way of building a relationship.
Negotiating from a position of strength might get the respect we need and deserve, as opposed to letting them walk all over us.
And how is the AMA’s existing lawsuit working out so far? 180,000 members are nothing in the big scheme of things. Not with powerful Senators urging FAA to take action, the media highlighting the danger, and then here’s the AMA positioning itself in opposition to something that isn’t fundamentally unreasonable?
AMA just needs a few POWERFUL Lawyers themselves. It’s not only who you know, its what the few you do know, know. You know?
…Isn’t fundamentally unreasonable? If making up demands which go against the express will of Congress isn’t unreasonable, I don’t know what would qualify. It’s more a matter of at least attempting to hold a federal agency in check than anything else. Can’t you see that?
That’s fine and all but the AMA is completely missing the point here. This is not directed to cause a burden to AMA members. This is to protect the hobby from the idiots who aren’t members of either the AMA or a sanctioned club. With nothing else in place, these people will continue to fly over sporting events, cities, and even government facilities. If the FAA does nothing to try to inhibit this they could either ban personal use or make registration really excessive. It’s $5 and probably takes a few minutes to register. We can hold the FAA accountable when someone flies an “RC bomb” into something when it happens because the person doing it won’t be a club or AMA member. That alone could save our hobby. I think the AMA needs to put their “boat and pony show” away until it’s really needed.
Really? protecting the hobby? and $5 is OK? I did not have to pay the FAA for my Airline Transport pilot license and just certified a commercial Air carrier for no Cost!. The idiots will not register and we are paying for the enforcement. I could go with a rule exempting regulation for all flying either over their own property or an established RC field. then registration for flying elsewhere. But is will only affect those of us flying responsibly.
True Les, but the Feds, as I’m sure you know, changed the aircraft registration requirements a few years back. 3 year re-register requirement that costs what? $5.00 I would rather pay it once for myself vs all the R/C birds our family has. Though I do believe the FAA cannot require a 13 year old to register, but then again as you know, they are THE FAA.
Yeah, the 13 and under kids parents must register them, But those 14 & 15 year olds are going to be fined and go to jail for not registering. How’s that for the FAA thinking? They don’t think, They are government.
Protecting my hobby by possibly destroying my part of it. You’re supposed to sign something that says you’ll stay under 400 feet. Thermal Duration and ALES sailplanes LAUNCH higher than that. I hope that either they neglect that little bit or change the requirement. I don’t want to, and probably can’t afford to live in Canada every summer until I get my LSF level V. I hope something more reasonable is negotiated.
David, and all, the FAA, after 9-11 came up with an airspace restriction that is permanent or temporary depending on what and where an event is or is occurring. That restriction is called a TFR or Temporary Flight Restriction, which in some cases is permanent, such as over the White House, Camp David, The Disney operations…others are temporary, such as sporting events or anything that may seem to be a possible target of terrorism or in some cases, operations that the FAA wants to keep certain aircraft out of said airspace…such as firefighting. So currently they wont shut us down. But I do believe that more restrictions will be coming as TFRs do not keep people from violating said airspace, and certainly a terrorist doesn’t care, however if one googles FAA TFR Map they may very well get a good idea where good targets may be. So, the FAA regulations aren’t always about safety but may very well be about satisfying an interest with money, or the so called public interest (as in – see we did this and now things will be safer). What may be coming is Pilot Certification, since the FAA is considering nearly anything that flies an aircraft, aircraft are piloted and pilots must be certified, and the FAA has regulated pilots (though I know some that never have been certified and therefor never regulated), and yes the requirements to be a Pilot for hire are much more than not. So everyone may want to go to your local pilot shop and get an FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) book, and possibly the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards book as well. May as well join the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association), and maybe AOPA (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association) too, as they both can be educational and can lobby congress to help preserve our freedom to fly. The airline industry has been trying to destroy General Aviation for quite some time now and are being somewhat effective as pilot certification has been dropping as the years go by. Since we are being lumped together now, maybe we should all join together to increase our numbers and be more effective at lobbying, since really, Congress listens to money and numbers of people. The Gov. has been playing the FEAR card since 9-11 in this country and with the help of the media they have been extremely effective at eroding our freedoms and more than likely it isn’t going to stop until the public revolts. That said, while I wish the AMA could affect change here, I do not think they will as Congress and the FAA believe they MUST do something here to satisfy public outcry/fear. The exact same reasoning they created the TFRs.
Best Wishes
PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS RING A BELL?
The FAA is tell us to give our Names and Address as they cannot by law have us register the Quads or other RC aircraft
Thanks for your help!
While I appreciate what you guys are doing, What about those people who don’t have AMA nor Want to join?
Well intended effort from both sides but futile. In my 30 yrs of rc I have never seen a model with name and AMA number, never seen a club inspecting or enforcing the rule. Likewise with the new Part 48. No guarantee every rc pilot will register with the FAA either. Those that would, will never get in trouble because they are likely to be responsible pilots in the first place. Those smugling drugs to jails or flying long range fpv will never id their planes! Get real.
At the end, nothing would be accomplished. So don’t sweat it and sleep tight.
The FAA is well aware that AMA only “encourages” compliance, does not have active compliance assurance processes, and rarely holds violators accountable. FAA is not accustomed to aviation safety management systems that take such a hands off attitude. No wonder they’re adding additional controls.
Well, where have you been Hose? Never saw a AMA number on a model plane or name and address in a plane, never saw a club inspect a model. Get your head out of the sand.
AMA, You need to push all the way, and keep as much freedom for us, and kids as You can.
Years ago, when I was a junior officer in a squadron, a Navy Flag taught me a critical lesson: “There are no problems that cannot be made worse.”
Think about that and ask yourself what happens if the FAA decides to respond by formally denying the AMA’s written request to be named a Community Based Organization? From the FAA’s perspective, there would be some poetic justice in such a move, as PL112-95 section 336 would be immediately turned into a set of golden handcuffs.
I personally don’t see the problem as long as I don’t have to pay the $5 and if the data base is not publicly searchable.
Initial registration free in first 30 days. 3 year renewal after that and no guarantee the price remains $5. The database is not searchable now, but will it remain that way? We are seeing right now that the FAA is doing whatever it pleases regardless of input from the AMA (or anyone else?).
The problem is, some kid forgets to put his number on a sailplane and he is now liable for a felony, failure to register an aircraft in accordance with the appropriate FAR.
Which is,why is it a person 13 years of age must register. A 13 year old is NOT a legal adult to sign anything legally binding to be responsible for ANYTHING!
13 yrs. old – this isn’t the only issue. Hospitals and Schools are trying to force Social Security numbers on newborns only to have their ID hacked and owe money (parents responsibility) before their 1 year old :<(
GREED – a very dangerous thing which corrupts and destroys. Sad; truly sad indeed.
Thank you AMA, you’re doing the right thing. Thanks for defending our freedoms!
(Sec. 336) Prohibits the FAA Administrator from promulgating rules or regulations on model aircraft flown strictly for hobby or recreational purposes and meeting certain other criteria.
Abiding by their own rules and restrictions makes further action against flying hobby aircraft in violation of their own RESTRICTIONS OF POWER
For clarity, it’s congress’ restrictions.
I agree, but I also think it is futile and on the 19th of February we will all have to register if we still want to fly and be ‘legal’. I don’t think the rulings marginalize what the AMA does. It still has value and a place in this brave new world.
Will not ever, in any way shape or form comply with this regulatory fecal matter.
Haha that makes two of us!
Three of us. I don’t follow illegal regulations.
We don’t gotta show you no stinkin’ /badges/ secret codes.
I think this is a good idea. This will give the AMA time to “fight” the FAA in this new law. I think it would be a good idea for the AMA to start a petition to get the FAA to abandon this law.
I just hope that this can be worked out. I think that the AMA is the only place that we should have to register with. Now if we register with the FAA they going to cover us with insurance too??? AMA dose!!! Need the FAA to start thinking a little.
In light of the fact that member HAS already posted a comment,concerning HIS TELEPHONE CONVERSATION,with the FAA office assigned to DRONE REGISTRATION. To paraphrase, he basically asked one of the 2 individuals running the program,if he an active MEMBER OF THE AMA,operating a non-commercial MODEL AIRCRAFT at a flying field is he subject to this registration requirement? The ANSWER WAS NO.
I was unable to call the office- it was after 1700 Eastern time. I WILL be calling as soon as possible. With this in mind-plus the sickening statement concerning “assisting the FAA to STREAMLINE THE REGISTRATION PROCESS after the deadline, it is my humble opinion that the AMA is playing both sides. Hedging their bets,protecting their valuable advertising income from the Drone manufacturers and large retailers against the MEMBERS. Please by all means tell me,how in the hell,can a member get more information, on his own,by a simple phone call- Than the Executives representing 180,000 members?
I am personally disgusted beyond words. The AMA had better invest in better IT INFRASTRUCTURE and ANSWER the TELEPHONE. When a GOVERNMENT office answers THEIR TELEPHONE, is it too much to ask the AMA to do the same. Please by all means AMA- you have my phone number- call me ANYTIME.
Kurt Stier December 16, 2015 at 01:58
BTW for anyone interested in asking the FAA for themselves, the direct phone number is (202) 267-8306.
Or Contact: Les Dorr or Alison Duquette
Phone: (202) 267-3883
This is the office the FAA says is in charge of the registration and where I was told on a phone call, that if I am flying at a designated model flying field I did not have to register for anything. If that is true, it means it exempts most of us flyers and not the over my/your house video spy-ers.
They also informed me that nothing is final, and there are still things to sort until the 21st yet and they are continuing to work with the AMA on the final registration designation and changes.
Yes, T.Bert. As we have been saying this is evolving and is not over.
We are taking action with the US Court of Appeals, but we are also still advocating for our members with the FAA. On both fronts we are making progress.
I’ll be calling the FAA as well as ANYONE willing to answer the telephone at AMA HQ. As soon as possible.
Our apologies on the difficulty to reach us. We have been very busy working with legal counsel, addressing the media, building relations with sister organizations, and advocating for our members to the FAA.
Those efforts are starting to generate results.
In between meetings we are answering emails, following up on blog posts/social media, and answering as many phone calls as possible. I personally have answered hundreds of calls this week.
If you cannot reach AMA HQ, you may want to try to reach out to your district representatives and AVPs.
I have had no difficulty in contacting AMA. I wrote to Dave Matthews personally and got a reply very quickly.
You have to cut the office some slack, do you think your the only one calling?
Thomas, glad you were able to get in touch! T.Bert, we are starting to get caught up on phone calls. Feel free to call again if you have any questions.
Thank you for posting this. I fly at a designated field and would be relieved if this is the case.
I was fine with registering until I read this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2015/12/18/faa-finally-admits-names-and-home-addresses-in-drone-registry-will-be-publicly-available/
That is a no-go for me. I hope the AMA succeeds – if not, I’ll let my larger planes be hangar queens rather than allow the FAA’s apathy compromise my privacy.
The FAA intends to make this registration aviailable to the public, and be administered by a third party.Dont forget , this registration includes children over 13 also-how intelligent is that?
I am an FAA certificate holder ; Commercial Pilot with multi engine and Instrument ratings.
My name and address is already publicly available on the FAA open database. And I was never advised about this.
SO I would imagine this would also be the case for this registration of RC aircraft operators.
While fighting this registration may be a good idea, I don’t want to put my certificate at risk for operating what the FAA consider an “unregistered aircraft”, ie a model aircraft.
A phone call is not legally binding. The text the FAA is written up says something different
Fantastic news, way to go AMA! So frustrating to see the FAA take the blanket easy way out and punish us responsible RC pilots, which does NOTHING to solve the problem at hand. Surely they can work out a better solution with the help of the AMA and others in our industry if they’d listen and understand our arguments. Good luck to all of us!
they will only take a credit card so they can track you. but it is easy to go and get a prepaid credit card and give them a BS name and address and just set up a one time mail account that you you. use the TOR browser to set up the e-mail account do not use your regular browser. good luck all
To the AMA Spend the money we send you for a Legal battle not just lip service
As a drone or quadcopter pilot I must say that I can sympathize with the guys that fly RC planes at air fields. You’ve never given anybody any issues and have flown responsibly for years. I would suspect if they had never put a camera on the quad these problems would never have happened.
I fly by all the rules. I want to do aerial photography and complement my portfolio. Unfortunately, a few well publicized dimwits have screwed this up royally. For all of us. However, I also believe that the FAA has overhyped the issue. They have used their influence and asked the nightly news to broadcast these over stated incidents. I had seen the FOIA that the FAA was required to submit in August of 2015. There was only one actual issue with a drone out of 200 reported issues. And that issue was somewhat unsubstantiated. Only one drone ever hurt anybody on the ground and no injury resulted.The FAA is chasing a problem that is not well documented, making rules for people that have never had a serious incident in decades (RC planes). Most people will ignore the registration just as they do with gun registration.
Aren’t there any members of the House of Representatives, The U.S. Senate, the federal court system, etc., etc., etc., who are involved in the activity of building and flying miniature aircraft? People in government who can see how ridiculous this is, and how it will just add to the bureaucratic mess that is Washington already? Thousands and thousands of people and hundreds of thousands of R/C aircraft that weigh more than .55 lbs.,”registered,” for what? Because of a few people who might want to spy on their neighbors?
Yes, there are those who will use their “drones” for questionable and downright illegal purposes, and that will always be a problem with the advent of fancy hovering machines and tiny little cameras. People abuse the system, always, in every system. But why punish all for the actions of a few?
Are the “bad” guys going to “register” their aircraft? I don’t think so. This pastime of ours has been doing just fine for the better part of a century, without “big brother” coming in and making a mess of things.
Agreed. I think they mis-categorized the culprits. Rather than labeling them as RC enthusiasts and having us all suffer, they should be labeled as A-holes, RC aircraft notwithstanding and dealt with accordingly.
Thank you AMA BOD
As a club president I am being asked questions I don’t have answers for I just keep reading all I can find. I will will do what ever I need to to keep flying and try to maintain my club. My worry is our field is leased from the corp of enginers if we don’t comply with the FAA can they shut us down. I have several members that think we will be out of the rc flying as the government is trying to out law the hobby I think this is extream but I could be wrong.
It is sad that a bunch of idiots buying quads don’t seem to care about the safty or privacy of others. As has been said these people wont regester and don’t care so we of the AMA pay the price. I have seen enough of this as a licend gun owner.
I still have faith in the AMA but they are in a fight with big brother it’s David and Golith.
I agree. If we don’t register, this will give more ammunition to those who want to shut the field down. Resistance is futile.
To fly anything after Dec 21 without registering, how do I prove that I didn’t just buy it? (Other than the obvious repairs from multiple crashes.)
If you register, you are FORFEIGHTING your RIGHTS to fly that Congress has given you, us and the AMA. If you all register, your signing the death certificate of rc model aviation. Once the FAA has all your names that they need after you register, they will immediately go before Congress to nullify the LAW that exempted us from ANY RULES and REGULATIONS and then the LAW will be changed in favor of the FAA, which means, they now have complete authority over ANY “aircraft” that is flying in NAS. So go ahead and sign up. You might want to start printing up For Sale signs and posting it on eBay because your aircraft and radios will be no longer of use to you…….
You shouldn’t be flying in the “NAS” unregulated, unless you’re a pilot. You should be flying away from the NAS.
I was worried the AMA was going to “go quietly” with all of this FAA foolishness. Thanks for supporting your members!
Thanks for standing up for us. 🙂
Thank You AMA! I feel there is something wrong with having to register my toy aircraft when Ultra Light aircraft fly without registering, and pose a greater danger than my toy aircraft. Are we going to register toy RC cars too? Kites? Balloons? Fear of terrorism has gripped the American Government and everyone/everything is a threat. The payload of toy aircraft can and pose no threat to america! Government has gone off the tracks and has turned full NAZI!
Gentlemen and you too AMA,I am told that the FAA has already today been in touch with my club executives. Once again we are going to be duped by a sleeping AMA and some very,very greedy bureaucrats (FAA). Like previously stated ……never give a govt run organization a chance to get a head start. The FAA has had plans for this for several years (carefully hidden of course). They actually sent want ads to several clubs in my area(not model related,just tech oriented) They said they had IMMEDIATE OPENINGS FOR TECH POSITIONS WITH A NEW PROJECT). The number of openings was quite large as only a government enterprise could field. They have been planning this expansion behind everyones back.
AMA …dont drop the ball again! Lets make use of our sizeable membership and orchestrate a unified response to the FAA and Congess, because they only understand the power of numbers. PLEASE NO PC MEALY MOUTHED POLITE DRIBBLE. The words are numbers=votes .They understand that.
Oh and BTW don’t aquiesce to any government requests for member information.
Registration is not the problem, it’s the FAA’s redefining “model aircraft” as “aircraft”, thereby side-stepping sec 336 of the 2012 Act which then gives the FAA rule-making authority over hobby model aircraft. Then the FAA can regulate this hobby into extinction. So support the AMA and fight back with petitions and contacting your Congressman.
Not only side-stepping sec 336 – they’re going completely around it. They’re not registering the model aircraft, they’re registering the OWNERS/OPERATORS of model aircraft. There’s nothing in 336 about that.
If models are going to be classified as aircraft, then there will no longer be a need for the AMA. Technically we would all be held under FAA regulatory rules, if we’re flying FAA registered aircraft. All the clubs in my area do not allow flight without AMA membership, and I assume thats a common club requirement in most areas. The same people who are opposed to AMA registration will certainly not register with the FAA, so this entire debate should be done away with, as it is not going to fix any concerns that the government or the citizens have.
And if we hold off, does AMA pay the $5 fee that we would save if we register right away?
Thanks a lot, all you idiot drone fliers out there who ignore our chartered clubs and fly unsafely anywhere you please!
This will be difficult at best.The FAA has inspectors with little or nothing to do.Where as once there was an active general aviation enterprise,it has all but vanished thanks to FAA heavy handed “help”.As this general aviation position shrank,there were FAA inspectors doing as much “policing” as they could in order to justify their employment.Flying became less than enjoyable.And I have flown for the love of it for 64 years.(I have flown model aircraft for 74 years) If the FAA can register all model aircraft flyers,their numbers base will be helped a small amount and their necessity insured.Really? Well,are they a Government Agency?..I rest my case. Will not be fun to go to the old flying field and have these people looking over your shoulder.And wait till you see the new regulations,a large book full in the first two weeks!!!Ugh.
While I am in no way a supporter of the new FAA rules, as an enthusiast, I must say that the interpretation of UAV is what is the problem here, I think we can all agree that RC planes,helis, quads or anything else including model rocketry are unmanned, if the FAA argument is that ALL aerial vehicles including blimps or what not that are capable of reaching certain range and potentially cause havoc around events and airports holds water, then I don’t see how any argument will stop them, I certainly agree with many hobbyists that if this rule is not overturned it will eventually destroy the hobby, that’s my 2 cents, again I state I am no fan of the FAA or it’s rules and I’m very much opposed to the new rules, but I wanted to get the gist of my thought out there for percolating.
Good to see the AMA taking a stronger stance. Seems unclear, though, how a legal action that has apparently lingered since August 2014 will address this. I would think this needs a court injunction to halt the FAA regulations, on the grounds of both Section 336 and the ridiculous “emergency”-rushed rulemaking process.
Jim,
[Most people will ignore the registration just as they do with gun registration.]
It’s “slightly” easier to conceal a gun versus a giant scale RC plane buzzing overhead… 😉
Someone flying a giant scale will be at a club flying site, even the FAA knows that. The issue is when someone waks into a hobby store and back out with a drone rtf and then goes and flys it into something and walks off.
Well, it’s a big improvement over the last statement that “They are disappointed.” The FAA’s ruling failed in just about every way possible, starting with their database that will be managed by an “unnamed contractor” and charging money to register to said database will serve no purpose other than being abused. If they were serious, they would think about maybe a training requirement, or follow guidelines of the AMA who has been safely operating model aircraft for decades, or even a certificate you could print out to show the law enforcement officers who the FAA claim will be responsible for ensuring compliance to their arcane regulations and know just as much about FARs the idiot pilots who are already violating them with no consequence.
Thanks, AMA. I know you are working hard on this. Having spent much of my life as an aviation professional, dealing with the FAA on many levels including flight department manager and managing the process of acquiring a jet charter certificate, that if we do not keep model airplanes exempt from the clutches of the FAA that out hobby will suffer grievously. The FAA does not let their employees fly on small aircraft and they have never had any understanding of general aviation. It has been very sad to see what they have done to general aviation over the last 30 years and I don’t want that to happen to those of us who fly models. What I fear most is the delegation of enforcement to local law enforcement. That will trigger responses from planning departments and getting a use permit, or keeping one for a flying field, will become next to impossible. Seeing the 400 foot rule get set in stone will be especially harmful to glider and SAM type flying.
It is time for an all out battle, I fear. We have little to lose. Thinking you can get anywhere establishing a relationship with someone in the FAA is in most cases wishful thinking. There is always someone upstairs who will take a superficial look and make an arbitrary decision regardless of the people you can talk too. No FAA employee can stand against that bureacracy regardless of their good intent.
This is the right answer to the FAA illogical rule.
Thanks AMA!!!
Thankyou AMA !
We all need to stick together on this critical issue that steps on our freedoms as Americans !
Nice. I had suggested this almost verbatim in the public comments. Thanks for the support and good luck.
The (fill in the blank) will always “cast the largest net” in making these new rules/ “laws”. They’ll wait to see how much “push back” they get from the public and then “amend” the rules to piss off a few less people and still look like they’ve “done something” to the public.
If local law enforcement is tasked to enforce this then I pray that the FAA actually trains them as to what is legal/illegal, and what would be “probable cause”. Will I register, haven’t decided. I have flown my “evil-assault-quad copter” in my yard in the past. I fly both fixed wing and multi-rotors at my club field. If my club (which is AMA sanctioned) which enforces AMA membership also enforces registration then I guess I’ll just quit the AMA, club, and “discretely” hover in my back yard.
I can’t wait until the first “delivery drone” goes off course (or something break, motor cease up, battery go dead, Lose GPS lock, hit a bird, get caught in the rain, etc, etc, etc) and crashes into somebody’s house, car…..
I have serious issue with the AMA response time to their members. Those at the helm of AMA should have had a response the decision no matter which way it went. AMA is a business with land holdings, employees and responsibilities to its members. Amongst those responsibilies is keeping us informed. AMA got caught with its nether garments awry bysupporting the drone manufactures in print and the spoken word. They have more skin in the game than we. IMHO the best news to date is to delay regestration which has just enough civil disobedience in it to keep me interested. Not to go unmentioned is our most vulnerable asset, the frequencies on which we fly. They weren’t given to us without a fight by the AMA so they have some experience with fighting, and winning these disputes. So rock on AMA , I’m sure your not getting much sleep over this.
Tom Ewing AMA8855
What the FAA is attempting here is downright asinine. They freely admit it does not address the safety issue and have no legal stance given what Congress has mandated. There is no rationale to register most/any model aircraft with no autonomous or BVLOS capability whatsoever, as they have existed for 60/70/80 years with no problem and we all know it. Sad to see people advocating actively giving away freedom (and $) when surely they can see it serves no purpose.
I’m very grateful to see the AMA doing the right thing here.
What gets me is that a UAV/Quadcopter/Drone is not a model. Its not a scaled down version of anything else. None of my models have the ability to fly 10 plus miles away using FPV, NAZE, and other technology that breaks all the Line of Sight and AMA rules, So why are actual models being thrown together with drones. I’ve never heard anyone call my Corsair Gullwing a drone or UAV.
I do agree that non-community member drones need to be registered as tens of thousands of new ones will be flying around on Christmas day in an unsafe manner way above 400 feet, over houses, people, and roads with their cameras running. But then again people flying like this will never register they will take it out the box get it charged and off they will go to capture video of their first crash to post on youtube.
You know what’s ironic is here in OR. starting Jan 1st all drones will need to be registered with the state department of aviation, now I can’t say for sure, but drone by definition in most cases is any unmanned aircraft, but the ironic part is just last month I was expressing concern about where you can fly and about having to register with the state and this is the response I got on once local forum “By the end of the year, hopefully the FAA will publish some reasonable guidelines. In the mean time, most of what you read is speculation and nobody knows what’s what so we’re all doing what we’ve always done. Just go fly and be smart about it!” Another one mentioned the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 and told me as a recreational flyer I had nothing to worry about. You know what’s funny is that just last month the FAA said that Flying drones ‘for hobby’ won’t require you to get your drone approved with the FAA and common sense should be enough. “Having fun means flying safely! Hobby or recreational flying doesn’t require FAA approval but you must follow safety guidelines. Any other use requires FAA authorization.” “any other used” referring to commercial use? What the hell happened between then and the 14th? What is wrong with this “task force” are they schizophrenics?
Fantastic news,Thank you.AMA for this Action.
It seems to me that, because of ignorance, RC model aircraft pilots are allowing themselves to be snookered by FAA, with the help of AMA, into fulfilling a registration requirement that does NOT apply to the average recreational RC aircraft pilot.
As usual, knowledge is power:
In addition to the new FAA registration rule, there are two documents that you MUST read and understood to determine whether or not you are subject to the FAA registration requirement:
The first is section 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft – FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012:
https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/Sec_331_336_UAS.pdf
Special Rule 336 prohibits FAA rule making for model aircraft meeting five specific criteria. Does your model aircraft and piloting meet these criteria? If so, the FAA registration rule DOES NOT apply to you. This explains why those who have talked to FAA representatives and explained how they’re flying have been told they don’t need to register.
The second document is the FAA official interpretation of Special Rule 336:
https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf
The FAA interpretation makes a clear distinction as to what constitutes “Visual Line of Sight” and what constitutes “Hobby or Recreational Purposes”.
So, what are you waiting for? Go look ‘em up and read ‘em; I’ll wait! Now, with this in mind:
If I’m standing at the flight-line of my local AMA sanctioned flying field performing amazing aerobatic feats with my Goblin 500 – being careful to maintain visual line-of-sight, and being careful not to exceed the (FAA mandated) 400-ft ceiling – my helicopter and my flying is NOT subject to the FAA registration rule. But as soon as I power-up my pod-racer quad, put on my FPV goggles and proceed to zoom around the trees beside the field – with no direct, unaided visual line-of-sight to the aircraft – my flying falls outside of the Special Rule 336 prohibition, and I’m now required to register with the FAA.
Similarly; if I power up my GoPro equipped, GPS/gyro stabilized camera quad and proceed to record video and still pictures of the surrounding scenery for my personal use, again maintaining direct visual contact below 400′ AGL, my flying is strictly recreational and NOT subject to FAA registration. But if I then incorporate those pictures or videos into some sort of commercial presentation (probably including YouTube), I am no longer flying for “hobby or recreational purposes” and I am now subject to FAA registration.
Got it? Now go out and have fun with your Yak, don’t worry about all the FAA registration uproar, and let the lawyers make some money disputing what’s right in front of their noses! Or you can be a sheeple and register anyway – you know – just in case? -waw-
Yeah, that’s OK. However, for my own “defense” at my local flying field (not a “club” field) I’ve already printed both your links and carry them in a weather-resistant envelope with my flight box.
And YES, I have been questioned a couple times about my “drone” being legal or not. I just hand them my prints to read for themselves.
Very, very well said. My sentiments EXACTLY!
Im willing to bet the doctors are going to be seeing an influx of patients suffering from anxiety disorder
I ain’t worried about it. The only number I’m putting on my aircraft is Sec.336
They ask for any thing else, I’m during anyone involved for harassment!!!
In your example #1 your quad does not meet the FAA’s definition of a model aircraft – without a safety pilot that can take immediate control, the flight is prohibited.
I believe FAA requires a safety observer, but not a safety pilot. There is a lot full-size aircraft flying done with only a single qualified pilot on-board. Some aircraft, like the Kaman K-Max 1200 Synchropter, are only single-seat.
That being said, how many FPV quad gatherings have you been to where there’s even a single safety observer? Most of the ones I’ve been to, if you don’t have a bag full of props and spare clover-leafs you’re probably not even going to get through your first battery. The pilots are all sitting in folding chairs; FPV goggles in place; hunkered down over their radios like so many jedi padawans getting a feel for the force. No-one could intervene even if they wanted too. And – in the time-honored tradition of RC flyers the world over – those who are not flyin’ are mostly either fixin’ or BSn’.
But NONE of them are creating any sort of safety-of-flight issue justifying an FAA mass registration – NONE! – waw –
Well thanks to the AMA for throwing quad pilots under the buss. Multi-rotor aircraft is the future, and when we line up our industry and open (flight locations) I can assure you AMA members we’ll return the favor in kind.
Quad pilots aren’t being thrown under the bus. There are several members at my club who fly quads, perfectly within the AMA regs and in a completely safe manner. Multirotors aren’t being singled out, the irresponsible pilots are. Flying at your home club falls within both Rule 336 and the FAA’s published interpretation of it.
The people being thrown *under the bus* are those who got us into this mess, people just flying “Wherever” with no thought to safety or privacy. And even then it’s ignorance, not malice. A little education and a change in flight habits would turn this around.
What I see happening here is that most all AMA registered pilots will follow the FAA guidelines for the FAA registration, if it is required. Those individuals that are not AMA, well, most all of them will likely register too. It is those few that don’t register and don’t have a “registration number” in their aircraft that will cause the forth coming further restrictions. Kinda like gun control, the good people get punished when bad people do stupid stuff with guns. No matter what laws are put into place, bad guys are still gonna have guns and bad pilots are still gonna violate airspace. My 2 cents.
Which brings us full circle of why this whole FAA is an issue to begin with. The FAA needs to abide by the LAW that Congress has passed. They can interpret it any way they want. If i interpret the LAW of not having to put tags on my car, when in fact it’s the LAW that I must do so but don’t, that doesn’t change the LAW any. I can drive until I get caught and they issue a fine for not complying with the LAW. Same scenario with the FAA. They can interpret it any way they want. It DOES NOT change the LAW that Congress has passed. Plain and simply, if they don’t have to obey the LAW that Congress has passed, why should I have to comply with ANY RULES or regulations that they have. If I complied with the FAA’ registration process, I would be violating a FEDERAL LAW. Don’t some of you people understand this. So in essence, the FAA is threatening to fine and charge you with a Felony for abiding by a FEDERAL LAW that Congress has passed if you refuse to register. The LAW is LAWLESS. Federal law says I’m NOT bound by ANY RULES OR REGULATIONS according to Section 336. FAA is saying I better register, because if I don’t, I face severe fines and charges of a Felony. Sounds like EXTORSION and BRIBERY to me and the last I checked, thats a FELONY and against the LAW. Not to mention its DISCRIMINATION!!! FAA is committing Felonies and we as whole should be DEMANDING a Federal Prosecutor place charges against those who are responsible!!!!!!!
If the FAA really wants to resolve safety concerns over separation of models from full sized aircraft, which makes sense and I agree with, the technology already exists in the altitude limiting electronics used in ALES (Altitude Limited Electronic Soaring) events. It’s a small electronic device that limits altitude by shutting off the motor at a preset altitude. That circuitry could easily be built in to the receivers. If mandated by law, all receivers would be required to have that kind of altitude limit built in to be legally operated in U.S. airspace. In that case, vertical separation would occur automatically, regardless of the operators ignorance or intent.
Actually, given that the overwhelming majority of manned flight takes place at 500′ AGL and above, the easier way to do this is to put in place blanket operational restrictions, for example: no flight above 400’AGL anywhere; no flight within lateral limits of class B, C, or D airspace or within 5nm of hospitals with a heliport, etc.
Would you prefer operational restrictions to this minor administrative measure?
Don: I fully agree with you. I’m surprised this hasn’t already been put in by the manufacturers themselves. I was thinking about this yesterday, about whether such a technology exists. I would also think that it would be possible other than shutting off if it pushed the propellers in a downward fashion automatically until the it was lowered into a safe level. I would think there could also be such a device that would slow down an RC planes motor enough to get it to a safe level, but allow the pilots sufficient power to bring their planes down to that safe level. Just shutting off the motor in that case would only serve to cause “dead stick” operation. We have to learn how to land a plane using dead stick operation anyway. But I would think that some method would work for each kind of model aircraft. Don, your idea is the best one I’ve so far.
So with your ‘solution’ everyone is forced to purchase new FAA compliant receivers for all their models. Mmmmkay…
Keep in mind that if administrative controls like registration fails or is openly resisted, then the FAA will have no option but to implement operational controls. Given that most manned aircraft flight takes place at 500′ AGL and above, how would we like it if FAA requires all non-commercial sUAS/UAS to stay below 400′ AGL? Or if they say that there’s no non-commercial sUAS/UAS flight within lateral confines of class B, C, or D airspace, or within 5nm of hospitals with heliports (SVFR flight to/from hospital)?
This can get a lot worse. We’re already suing FAA, how’s that working out so far? We want to add a second lawsuit? Are we not watching how EPA is using regulation to overcome private property rights? Are we not watching how groups much more powerful than AMA had non-profit paperwork held up for years? Are we not watching powerful Senators pushing FAA for action?
Thumbing your nose at a Federal agency is monumentally foolish.
WE THE PEOPLE…
The government is supposed to be working for us and doing our bidding, not the other way around. Somehow this concept has been lost.
The founding fathers stressed – a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Right now they are turning in their graves because of just the opposite of what has become of what they stressed.
Are you aware that the FAA trying to regulate our hobby is illegal and its the FAA thumbing their nose at CONGRESS???? Who the hell are they to think they can do that??? The only way they’ll get away with it is if people like you cave in. Don’t be part of the problem.
I’m more than happy to comply because I’m convinced that the FAA is merely using ambiguity in the ambiguous language of PL112-95. Model aircraft do indeed meet the well established FAA definition of aircraft, a subset of them to be precise, and since nobody (including Congress) disputes the FAA’s authority to regulate in the name of safety, I don’t take any issue with it.
I’ll be registering. And I’m confident that the AMA will eventually ask everyone else to do the same.
I’m just beating the rush!
People like you are the reason government gets bigger and bigger and our freedoms are less and less. Keep caving in, see what happens to what’s left of our freedom.
We have been restricted to 400′ AGL for a long time by FAA AC 91-57, recently updated to AC 91-57A. Google it to check it out.
As private pilots know, FAA Advisory Circulars are just that: “Advisory”. They are not regulatory.
And if anyone actually READS AC91-57a (before their eyes glaze over) to paragraph 6.e:
“e. Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).”
Notice the word, “should”.
Also notice that: “(5) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the model aircraft provides the airport operator or the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.”
…does not suggest that permission be asked, or given, by ATC. Only prior notification is needed to be considered a “model aircraft operation”.
But what do you bet the tower will ask for your registration number?
Thanks for taking a stand. The government has gotten out of hand. I will now send in my renewal.
I have been building models for over sixty years and could not believe we were going to do nothing.
Buz
Serious members complaining about this subject or advocating compliance without question should read the two documents on the FAA webpage. The first one is the task force report which show the discussions that went on between task force members. Remember, all of this talk was non-binding. This will give you an idea of the thinking behind their recommendations.
https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf
The second document is the FAA’s thinking about the same subject prior to their announcement to have all of us register. It is from a cost anaysis point of view. It is easy to see that the more individuals they can rope into this registration, the better the cost anaylsis turns out for them. It may very well be about the money. I believe that this document shows that the FAA has a lot at stake for requiring us to be included (financial, administrative, consistency, and authoritative.)
https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/2015-12-13_2120-AK82_RIA.pdf
Well I expressed my disappointment in the AMA for not taking action in previous posts. However, what is right is right and now I want to thank them for recognizing the right thing to do and taking action. DO NOT PLAY NICE WITH THE FAA, what they are pulling is illegal, they have no foot to stand on.
Well, after complimenting the AMA I re-read their post and at the end I saw this:
“Holding off on registration will allow AMA time to fully consider all possible options. On a parallel track, it also allows AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.”
NO, THERE SHOULD BE NO DISCUSSION of any registering with the FAA! Why would you even consider complying with the FAA?! They are not working in context of their reach of the law! Just do what has to be done to throw this blatant attempt to take control out the window.
Absolutely agree! It’s like, why are you asking permission to do something when your the one in power!
WAKE up AMA!
For the sake of the hobby WAKE UP!!!
Time to put on your work gloves and do what needs to be done!
I’m willing to stand with you, but let’s first make sure we’re all in on the same team!
LETS DO THIS!!!
“Toys are hereby declared illegal, immoral, unlawful, and anyone found with a toy airplane in his possession will be placed under arrest and thrown in the dungeon.”
— Burgermeister Meisterburger
Its sad, actually, to think our government reps. have let Mr. Huerta and Mr. Foxx turn our federal agencies into a cartoon!
I find the tone and the range of comments on this topic to be quite interesting. I am imagining what the blog might have looked like when horseless carriages where first required to be registered, or when drivers first had to be licensed. Hopefully there will come a day when the FAA will realize how futile this effort will be, much as the FCC did in the face of the explosion of CB radios on the market. In the mean time there will always cry foul over big government’s reach into their civil liberties, and there will be those who will go along and continue to peaceably enjoy the hobby. I will be among the latter will have nothing to worry about from anyone.
YES!!! Thank you AMA for leading the fight! After we win in court, I recommend you sue for recoupment of legal expensed and then invoke the triple damages since the federal government is a monopoly.
I am a RC pilot for almost 40 years and also a ultralight pilot so I see the issue from both sides. I think everybody is missing the main problem including the FAA. The issue is the new technology that the new drone industry has brought into the hobby. In the past anybody that wanted to get into this hobby had to invest not only money but much time developing the skills required to assembly, understand the equipment as to how it works and become deeply vested by joining clubs or seeking out other in the hobby to learn to fly. Now with the new technology nobody has to do that anymore all one has to do is buy a box charge a battery and push a button and there flying. No time invested in understanding the sport and the responsibility that goes along with it.
What frightens the hell out of me are the drones that anyone can buy and program with a laptop to fly a GPS guided mission. Or a drone that once it gets too far away to see or control it just goes into a homing mode and flies back and lands. The people flying these aircraft are not pilots and don’t have to know how to fly! These are the aircraft and “pilots” that needs to be addressed not the 95% of the true R/C PILOTS!
Tom
I agree. The distinction needs to made here and now. We now have TRUE R/C PILOTS and then we have the rest. It’s this rest which has stirred up the pot !
I agree also. I think the FAA should start with the manufacturers and stores that sell these drones and get all the serial numbers for record. Then when sold to whoever, register them with the FAA.
This will at least give the FAA a starting place to get control of things that are causing the problem.
I hear there will be some 600,000 sold by next year so they have to work fast.
Paul.
I am most concerned with anyone shipping model aircraft with LiPos on board!
With the current increased concern for security, LiPos could cause a very serious problem
for modelers that travel by air. What’s the latest on this serious concern that all contest fliers using commercial airlines should be aware of.
Ship the batteries in a discharged state, charge after you land.
Whether we fly UAS (drones, which is wrong to call them) or fly fixed winged aircraft, we should all stand together as one,once you divide you get weaker. Example when it comes to hunting, hunting with a compound bow, Long Bow, or cross Bow. We are all in the same Sport,hobby but have different taste. I was a member of the AMA, but now with all this controversy the AMA is starting to want to separate people from members. You can call a dogs tail a leg, but know matter what you call it is still a dog’s tail (Abraham Lincoln). What I am trying to say is that if what the FAA is trying to do is wrong and unjust, it should be wrong for ALL hobbyist not just members of a organization. The problem with our country is we are all divided. I will no longer renew my membership to AMA if they are going to divide hobbyist of what they enjoy because of irresponsible people whom no matter what you register or not they will fly recklessly.
What a shame our country is becoming to.
Speaking from the UK one thing does stand out, both in the AMA’s releases and in members’ comments. Why on earth do you refer to what you do as ‘a hobby’? Model flying is a SPORT and in fact by far the most popular air sport in your country or mine. It’s recognised as one internationally by the FAI and nationally by most countries’ national aero clubs, so let’s give it the respect it deserves by at least using the right term.
Terminology can be very important at times like this. The word ‘hobby’ creates an image of something a bit frivolous and casual, like collecting matchbox labels or making patchwork quilts. A sport like model flying has aims, standards of excellence and environmental needs, like sensible airspace access.
It may well be that a lot of drone users do so as a hobby, but most of us who fly models, whether control-line, radio-controlled or free-flight, are taking part in a sport, either competitively or recreationally. A sport creates a different public image from a hobby, and it’s a better one for model flying, so let’s get the words right!
Nice outlook and do appreciate your thoughts and inputs.But, on this side of the pond, were so damned tired of political correctness! That’s what caused alot of this mess already!
Yes, and FOOTBALL IS REALLY SOCCER!?!
What I find more concerning then the potential legal battle or the registration itself is the apparent lemming / Citizen Kane mentality that I continue to read online and hear first hand from our own model community who are blindly rallying around the AMA as if they can do no wrong. There are two sides to every story; yours, mine, and the truth. Before you are so quick to dismiss yourself or the AMA as having any possible negative contribution to any of the current “issues”, perhaps you should take time to reflect on how model aviations role has dramatically changed not only our hobby, but the airspace environment we fly within in the past decade. There are good and bad with all advancements in technology but for us to assume that we should be able to operate under the current status quo is quite honestly naive.
Facts are facts and the only thing constant is change whether we like it or not. Creating an up-roar about simply registering with the government that you are a responsible aviator is baffling. Unless I am remiss, aren’t the rules of model aircraft flight remaining the same for drone, fixed wing, rotorcraft, etc regardless of registration? And don’t we (AMA) already place our information on our aircraft currently? So… how is the FAA requirement any different? It’s just another step of accountability. I strongly recommend we reevaluate our government paranoia and conspiracy theory discussions in favor of taking positive steps to assure a safe airspace environment for all. Even if this means making concessions we wish we didn’t have to make.
If you think the hammer is coming down hard now, we are all in for a rude awakening when our hobby causes a full scale aircraft to crash. The community as a whole isn’t going to care about the right to fly toy airplanes how we want to when they are at the morgue identifying their loved one on a stainless steel table.
It’s not an issue of a damned registration number sir! What part of the LAW do you not understand??? We already have an exemption from ANY RULE OR REGULATION that a legislative branch of government passed. Go and do some more research about the FAA on this issue from June of this year of 2015. I quote, “The FAA has jurisdiction of ANY aircraft that operates in NAS. And yes, even if its a paper airplane, technically, the FAA can regulate that too” Now let’s take a look what the FAA is saying now. Now they say that a paper airplane does not fall into that category of having to be registered. Matter of fact, if you a foreigner and you want to fly, you sign up just the same, but you don’t have to prove ownership by registration unlike an American citizen that has to register and PROVE ownership. A foreigner flying rc aircraft just gets a certificate to fly without proving OWNERSHIP! It seems to me that these rules and regulations are pick and choose what and where they want to enforce them on and who is willing to voluntarily comply and forfeit there already established RIGHTS in a exchange for a discriminatory rules that punish and criminalize a LAW abiding CITIZEN. I highly suggest that no, including you, take the bait. You register, it is strictly voluntary on your part. When the FAA gets enough signatures, they will go to Congress with their lawyers and show them that their Rules and Regulations should now be made into LAW and to nullify Section 336. Why do you think they are willing to refund your damned $5 for after you register. You think that’s a good deal, that you got your money back and got your registration for “free”? If you did that, you just got played for a FOOL. This isn’t no conspiracy. This FRAUD and EXTORSION! You have more faith in government than I do. But go ahead and Register. You will be bound by their Rules if you do. The rest of us will be exercising our LEGAL RIGHTS with and through the AMA!!!
@anon
We all have a right to vocalize our own opinions. And I respect that. But to discount my opinion solely based on the fact we do not see eye to eye is disrespectful and dismissive. You are indeed correct that I will be registering of my own fruition based on what I know and understand. IMO, there is nothing wrong with this action. Do I support the AMAs recommendation to not register? No. As a matter of fact I’ve disagreed with several of their approaches about this very topic for years.
Regardless, as I see it Section 336 was composed in such a manner as to allow changes in the future. And as I see it, serious hobbyists will inevitably be bound to the rules of our national airspace due to technical advancements. Do I wish this was the case? No. But in order to ensure the exceptions do not become the norm (e.g., crashing on the Whitehouse lawn, flying above sporting arenas) we have to start somewhere. Will registration solve our problems? No. But as John P stated below, “only pilot education does.” Perhaps this fire will spur a new culture of safety and respect for all of hobby aviation. This is something I feel the AMA has seriously lacked in capacity to execute properly for over a decade. Additionally, Im not a fan of how aggressive the AMAs has been regarding their defense. I feel they’re defending old ways, flip sides, support or don’t support drones, etc. There has never been a constant message coming from them – until now. To little, too late IMO.
I’ll stand by my earlier comment that it’s the lack of cohesion and unity amongst the AMA membership (about this topic) that is most concerning to me. The “You’re either with us or against us!” mentality will accomplish nothing. Perhaps we should be asking ourselves why our very own governing AMA body operates in the manner it does versus blindly following them with little understanding of how they got here in the first place. Seek to understand. And right now I don’t fully understand why or where the AMA is going – short of asking the FAA to not touch us. Which, unfortunately, that time has come and gone my friend.
Registering our models has no effect on safety, only pilot education does.
Hey, got a question. My home owners insurance covers me first before the AMA. According to the new FAA rules, we will be flying AIRCRAFT not MODEL AIRCRAFT. If I owned a full size aircraft I would have to get insurance for it, just like my boat, car and so on. My home owners insurance does not cover these. Is there any info out there explaining or discussing this? Thanks
I 100% agree with the statement made by “Dean Mavis December 17, 2015 at 22:58” and second his comments made. These are my thoughts as well
I suspect it’s time for Irish Democracy and civil disobedience. It’s time to resist tyranny and this government shakedown imho. I’m not saying we need a Rosa Parks, but rather an overwhelming majority of citizens purposefully ignoring this “law” (if that’s what it is). The point of Irish Democracy is to overwhelm the law-enforcement aspect of the policy — make it so there aren’t enough officials to arrest the majority. Jails should be over flowing. Also, we might setup a day and call every sheriff office to inform them kids are playing with unregistered toys in their backyards. I’m talking about thousands of “legitimate” complaints here to overwhelm law enforcement. These agencies will want money from the misguided feds to enforce asinine laws. A sheriff may also declare a law unenforceable (think standard capacity rifle magazines in Colorado). Nothing will change until there’s money on the table, to be taken or given. Voting is just an illusion to keep you occupied.
But, that’s me, I hope I’m wrong,
-edfardos
I was totally Tee’d off the day the ruling came out but have sense cooled off and took a step back and really looked at this ruling. It goes against congress and is a over reach and the AMA has took a stand for that I am thankful.
As by my website Stunt Hangar we are control line members 4500 strong and see no need to register of any type be it regular control line or scale with 2.4 GHZ radio as the plane flies in a hemisphere of not more than 70 foot. So in order for it to be used for anything the building would have to walk into it. Or I guess we could fly out of the back of a pickup truck. The Idea is outrageously preposterous.
The AMA did post a notice on my site and we thank them for that is keeping us up to date on the rulings. So we didn’t need to find out second hand. My thoughts now are to wait as the AMA has asked and see how the wheels of justice turn.
Good Job AMA Thanks
Robert AMA 12366
Due to various c/l design factors such as an extra inboard wing panel, offset fuselage, hard rudder to outside of circle built in, unstable CG due to leadout position, etc., they do not fall under the FAA’s definition of an aircraft because they can’t maintain sustained flight in the atmosphere by themselves. So, NO PROBLEM!
Thanks to all AMA leaders for their efforts to protect our members. May we be successful in defending against the illegal actions of DOT and FAA. Modeling is very important to all of us but we should not forget the greater issue here. Which is, two APPOINTED bureaucrats (Foxx and Huerta) conspired to purport a deliberate violation of a federal law. If private citizens broke a federal law they would most likely be under some pretty serious prosecution. However Foxx and Huerta concocted this legalese end run around to subvert the intentions of the United States Congress. How can 2 appointees and a lawyer, tell 535 elected members of the legislative branch of our government what they are going to do. The clear and present danger in this issue is not model aviators, rather it’s the fact that the law of the land can be broken with seeming impunity by these two. Every legitimate lawmaker and, citizen of this nation should be calling for their immediate dismissal and or prosecution.
I think we, as a community of rc model aviation should petition the Federal DA to file criminal charges on these two thugs. They drafted up some “Rules and Regulations” and then threaten to fine and prosecute a LAW abiding citizen if they refuse to break the law that is in fact the LAW that Congress PASSED!!! Imagine that! Being threatened with a Felony and major fines if you comply with the Federal LAW, that was passed to exempt you from ANY RULES and REGULATIONS! Isn’t that EXTORTION!? I will say it again, the ONLY number I will be putting on ANY of my rc aircraft is 336… Section #336. If AMA can defend these rights, I will gladly renew my Membership. Until then, I need to save my pennies just in case these thugs do come after me. I will be waiting for them with my LAWYERS and Counter LAWSUITS!!!
I do want to say a big THANK YOU to AMA for listening to all of us irate LAW abiding RC Pilots. Let’s make an example of these crooks in these corrupt branches of government. Let’s make them accountable for their fraudulent actions! FULL SPEED AHEAD!!!!!
So what is the status of the August 2014 petition? Will the appeals court deal with it before the middle of January? They’ve had 16 months already.
I can not understand how this will affect me flying at my AMA field – which is all I am concerned about. But, it is good to see AMA involved on our behalf since the registration requirement is yet another step toward totalitarianism. If we must “comply,” as a minimum I would like to see AMA obtain FAA approval to issue FAA #’s to all active AMA members and so avoid the inconvenience of individual registration – and mail me stickers for my planes. And this would give the FAA a large data base they could show as proof RC enthusiasts were “complying” like the good little sheep we are.
It’s uplifting to hear that the AMA is standing firm on this issue. I am so furious with the FAA and their deliberate misinterpretation of the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft” as a means of pushing their own agenda. The FAA also bypassed normal procedural safeguards in law making just to lock-down the use of model aircraft. This seems like a rights violation to me. Further more I don’t see the need for another id number when I already have an AMA number to put on my model aircraft. As for educational materials that the FAA might send out I feel this is already done by the AMA and is simply redundant.
Perhaps what should happen is to provide the model aircraft hobbyist with a choice of either joining a community based organization like the AMA OR joining a government model aircraft entity but not place model aircraft under the same blanket with real aircraft.
Thanks AMA for not giving up on the hobbyist
If I’m not mistaken the FAA & the AMA are on the same page here just they want their AMA numbers to be used instead of a new FAA system, that’s all this fight is over. You will still have to register no matter what.
I need to make another comment about the 400 foot rule. In practical matters it is never safe to fly below 1200 to 1500 feet in any manned aircraft, except for take off and landing In a case of engine failure in a single engine airplane that is the practical limit to find and maneuver to a safe landing, and engine failure in a twin does not leave the pilot in much better shape because of the procedures and speeds involved. There are many obstructions below that level, some antennas above 2,000 feet that make that hazardous. There is a 700 foot antenna one mile from our flying field. Only near airports is the 400 foot rule relevant at all. Crop dusters and helicopters often fly lower but they are slow aircraft and flying visually, almost always by necessity aware of local activities and obstructions.
The airway system itself has 700 foot and 1200 foot floors, but there are rules about clearance from obstructions and flying low over populated areas that make those altitudes mostly unreasonable. The conditions that full scale pilots fly in now have nothing to do with what flying was like in the 30’s and 40’s when these altitudes were instituted.
In Class G uncontrolled airspace over sparsely populated areas (most of the conterminous U.S.) the minimum VFR altitude is 500′, leaving a rather small safety cushion. People fly direct now with GPS, not on Victor Airways anymore.
Yes, we have 80 years of safe and responsible flying. We can maintain that track record if we continue to use common sense and never fly near full scale aircraft or in restrictive airspace.
If a pilot is found non-compliant in an FAA action, the appeal to an NTSB Administrative Law Judge is complex. In the meantime pilot privileges are sanctioned as in the original violation. There is no meaningful quick remedy to the original FAA action. You can’t really argue with FAA, ATF, IRS or any of the very serious agencies with enforcement powers, but must go through more hoops than one can imagine. In this case, compliance is easy and cheap, even free at first. My information, personal, medical, and general has been with the FAA for 40 years, and I really don’t have any privacy or other concerns. I expect to wait a bit, call FAA, and probably just register and fly in “quiet enjoyment” of our hobby. (or “sport”)
I think that in accordance with the new LAW, if your club is within 5 miles line of sight of an airport, or where you are flying if it is your private property, every member should make the required phone call to the control tower, on an individual basis, and every time they take off, regardless of the number of times they do that at any one flying session. The inundation of phone calls should then be brought to the media that trying to regulate us hobby flyers is creating a safety issue through distraction which is what it will be if a tower operator has to answer the phone every two or three minutes.
Clubs will sign a blanket memorandom of agreement between the club and airport manager or FAA Air Traffic Control Tower manager for repeated flights at the same location.
Great idea, but unfortunately, just by inundating them with phone calls, the FAA would be crying thats a terrorist act and is the very reason why rc model aircraft should be regulated or worse, banned. Just file major lawsuits. I know everyone’s tired of hearing that but unfortunately, its lawyers, insurance companies and corporations who are making the laws and not the citizens. The only non violent way to counter their illegal laws is to fight fire with fire. In this case , lawyers with lawyers……
Simplest solution to all this mess, if the FAA really did seriously recognize the AMA and didn’t want to have eventual overreach intentions, is this:
Require R/C pilots to be AMA members ( with insurance ) and use the AMA membership number as the registration for the aircraft which can be shared with the FAA. In this manner the AMA would be required to enforce registration. Furthermore, since in this manner the AMA would have a much larger membership then it may alleviate membership dues to more attractive levels for all.
In essence, that is the very reason why anyone with an AMA Membership, should NOT register!!! Again, the FAA is acting ILLEGALLY and way out of line by implying EVERYONE must register. Why doesn’t the AMA come on out and clarify this?
According to Section 336, AMA and its members are EXEMPT. And no, The FAA should NOT be having the AMA link our AMA numbers up with the FAA registration number. I know that is what AMA would like to see become LAW as it would force ANYONE who purchases rc aircraft to join AMA.
What I can see happening is, the FAA is going to clarify that any RC aircraft that is not a member of a national organization that promotes safety, such as the AMA, must register with the FAA.
Just as it is written under Section 336, it prohibits the FAA from making ANY RULES and REGULATIONS for rc model aircraft that are part of an organization that promotes safety nationally.
We don’t have to register because we are already exempted from ANY RULES under the LAW that Congress passed.
Now the ones who just purchase a drone or whatever they are flying from the store, they would have to register if they were not a member of, say, the AMA.
The FAA and the AMA, I suspect, are trying to “work together” as they both have a vested interest to do so.
AMA MembershipMembership enrollment would sky rocket, which wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing and the FAA would achieve its objectives by fulfilling the public’s concern about “drone” safety.
Anything less than what I have presented here is just outright illegal and self serving.
First , I thank the AMA leadership for their stand for the members.
The core issue is the incidents of reckless operators of the higher functional quadcopters like the DJI Phantom that can go well above 2000 feet and out of sight. They were often flown over unprotected people and over public property without permission. It is only reasonable that the heaver quads to be registered. I would agree a course on safety and how to operate the vehicle properly. Better yet start with a trainer drone that is inexpensive and take it to the park and learn.
The complications are the FAA making a over simplification that all sUAV are aircraft. The old school R/C modelers are not flying their model airplanes at sporting events.
Most of the quadcopter pilots are responsible and want to promote a safe environment. There are small amount that think they should be allowed to do what they want and will no it anyway. So is it reasonable to think they are going to pay 5 bucks for a registration fee and put their number on their craft.
The remedy that the FAA used is illegal which many commentator have pointed out and not effective. It will only be effective if the UAV is found after an illegal incident and the wrong doer registered his/her drone with completion of writing the number on the drone.
This is so obvious that I can not help to think that there is a scam involved here. The FAA says they found a drone that was flying around an airport and they located the drone that had a number of the guilty party. They do not give any names because it he is a minor. They will look good in the public’s eye.
Maybe the psychological effect of hobbyist complying the registration that they will be able insert more authority over the hobbyist in the future. They could also be planning for a ban as the objective all along and they can say they tried but they have no alternative. Drones and helicopters are ban from the national airspace.
The FAA answers to us the citizens, we shall not answer to them.
Congress needs to redefine the role of the FAA and the structure of the nation airspace in this new technological aviation world. I will end it here.
Section 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft – FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 is written into law. The public is expected to abide by laws then why not the FAA.
Just remember this; the FAA has had a track record of over-reaching where they were not suppose to.
Why not? There’s the right way, the wrong way, and the FAA way!
So we should hold off registering until February 19th…okay. BUT! The 30 day free registration starts December 21st and closes Jan. 20th. So If we register before Jan 21st for free we’re being “good little modelers” in support of AC91-57a. If we wait until the last minute, the FAA takes $5.00 from each of us and we’re being “good little modelers” that have decided to be compliant with AC91-57a.
Either way the powers that be in the FAA & AMA can report that the program is a success. If the FAA bends to the AMA’s request, the FAA can claim it is in the best interest of the new policy by means of reducing operating costs since we are already AMA members. And the AMA can claim that they got the job done for their members.
Or…I’m not reading today’s email from AMA correctly.
AC 91-57A says nothing about registration of model aircraft.
Hoow about everybody building & registering 15 or 20 0.56# gliders? Swamp them with love.
No good, you only register one model aircraft for mulitiple use and it must have a control system to qualify.
May I suggest that in the AMA’s discussions with the FAA that while we can’t hold the Government liable for what happens to the personal information given out under Freedom of Information, we will see to it that the media has a field day if thieves and hackers use the registered addresses to steal our equipment and ruin computers. I hope that there will be a compromise where the AMA can keep the data secure and use the AMA numbers.
I read AMA’s request to “hold off” registering many times. I keep coming back to this point: AMA has an appeal on the Court of Appeals docket since August of 2014–over a year ago. Is AMA resting its hopes that the Court of Appeals will deign to hear their case by drop dead registration date, or am I missing something. If I am missing something it is this: Daily updates on what is going on to prevent me from having to register my name and other identifiable information in a database that is apparently publicly searchable by number and reveals personal information–all because I want to fly my RC helicopters. What am I missing? What is the point? What exactly is AMA doing to make sure this huge potential breach of personally identifiable information does not happen?
“It looks like the FAA Drone Registry will eventually be publicly searchable, and will include names and addresses. This is a HUGE invasion of privacy.”
This has been a problem for manned aircraft owners because the N-number data base is available to the public. Not only does this expose registered owners to marketing spam but now RC pilots will be exposed to angry neighbors, parents and paranoid women at the beach. Anyone can file a complaint against you whether you’ve broken a rule or not. They could even show up at your house for a confrontation. There have have even had cases of revenge reports where people have filed false reports with the FAA for alleged violations. There are always unintended consequences to these rules and regulations that the bureaucrats didn’t anticipate.
We’re all may have a little idea of what the FAA does for aviation. Reports of accidents are made so aviators can figure out what went wrong, and why it went wrong. Air traffic controllers give pilots taxiing and takeoff instructions, air traffic clearances, and advice based on information received from the National Weather Service, air route traffic control centers, aircraft pilots, and other sources. They transfer control of aircraft on instrument flights to the Air Route Traffic Control Center ( ARTCC ) controller when the aircraft leaves their airspace and receives from the ARTCC control of aircraft on instrument flights flying their airspace. They must be able to recall quickly registration numbers of aircraft under their control, the aircraft types and speeds, positions in the air, and also the location of navigational aids in the area. The Federal Aviation Regulations, or FARs, are rules prescribed by the Federal Aviation Administration ( FAA ) governing all aviation activities in the United States.
Q5. Why do I need to register?
A. Federal law requires aircraft registration. Registration helps us ensure safety – for you, others on the ground, and manned aircraft. UAS pose new security and privacy challenges and must be traceable in the event of an incident. It will also help enable the return of your UAS should it be lost.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
Q: What is the penalty for failing to register?
A: Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/
The Academy of Model Aeronautics ( AMA ) has been around since 1936, and has operated an effective organization of its members and their endeavors to be concerned with the safety of all involved. As the time for integrating Unmanned Aircraft Systems ( UAS ) into the United States FAA has arrived, it is time for the AMA and the FAA to join together for the safety and defense of aviation and its people. Oh, O.K., just let it happen? No, not that easy – but just signing up is a good beginning.
Owners using the model aircraft for hobby or recreation will only have to register once and may use the same identification number for all of their model UAS. The registration is valid for three years.
https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=19856
What’s your point of posting already known facts?
AMA#1527
You know when you think about it $5 as a certification fee would have made a lot more sense, but when does the government ever make sense?
They just made 500 cents.
Haven’t heard anyone talk about this> to wit: the FAA, through this regulation, is seeking authority over ALL of the U.S. AIRSPACE. By LAW, FAA only has enforcement authority concerning the definition of the NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM (NAS). Look up definition of the NAS for a clear understanding of what that means. We have the NAS and we have the UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE. UNCONTROLLED AIRSPACE is where we RC Pilots fly 99% of the time AGL 400′ and below. This is the BIGGEST ISSUE in this entire affair, that FAA is trying to grab authority over airspace they don’t have legal authority to control! AMA Council’s comments on THIS issue would be very welcome since I may have missed something in translation. Also could be a huge bonus to AMA’s case in court.
“The NAS includes both controlled and uncontrolled airspace.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airspace_System
Uncontrolled airspace is part of the NAS. The issue is that the FAA wants to make sure you are confined there.
Larry, agreed 100%. CLASS G airspace.
you are not totally correct. But in fact, controlled airspace ends at 700 feet at most uncontrolled airports and only extends to the ground within about 5 miles at controlled airports(some extensions at some airports) or with instrument approaches. Airlines can not fly in uncontrolled airspace expect on approaches and small air carriers need special permission to fly in uncontrolled airspace because as you said, the ATC systems does not control it. But the FAA does have jurisdiction in all airspace even if it does not have ATC control. But all pilots know they leave FAA protection when they leave controlled airspace.
Here’s an idea that I think could help, but there’s no perfect solution. Do it from the point of sale – the place where the device was purchased in the first place. Require anybody who is new to the hobby sign up for AMA – and have part of that fee go towards payment to the FAA (if this dumb ruling stands). And require them to go through the Know Before You Fly training (which can be done through a local club – they already give flying lessons – why not enlist their help in teaching and demonstrating how to fly the new stuff) before being allowed to fly solo. Those who are already AMA members can continue buying planes new and used like they normally do. But educating everyone on the use of the quadricopters is a good idea. And there are ways this can be accomplished. Again, there’s no perfect solution to all of this, but the more people we can get involved in learning to fly safely, the better. If education is part of the answer, this would be a place to start.
I’m a recent AMA joiner (mid 2014). I’ve spent most of my life doing rockets (both model rockets, and high power). AMA leaders should see what NAR and Tripoli rocket groups went thru in their court battles with the ATF, (it might give some ideas). Years of expensive and unnecessary bologna. In the end, us rocket people won. But in the meantime, we were mostly fluffed off and ignored. I think even today, the ATF just “tolerates” us. And yes, we have our own rules with the FAA.
New to this UAS problems, and spent some time looking at the AMA site. Also the FAA web site. My feeling? I think AMA is generally going to loose.
The general public just thinks “drones” when I tell them I’ve been learning to fly model planes. Most have little knowledge of the rest of the hobby, the history, etc.
And, when it comes to public safety, AMA will have few ally’s in it’s fight with the FAA. We all know, a large model plane can definitely endanger full size aircraft. And, reading the exemption for model aircraft, the FAA interpretation is, fine, a RC aircraft. But if they start to endanger the public, the FAA will act (even if only a few act stupid). You have no “right” to fly any aircraft. I believe the bill of rights has a list of rights.
And then the “drone thing”. Cheap RTF drones and other aircraft have done more damage to the hobby than you know. No longer do you have to spend hours carefully building it, like when I was a kid. Just order one made. Then fly it any where. My wife’s car has already been hit by a drone flown from a parking lot.
I’m AMA number 1074499. I’m not your enemy, just a realist. AMA leadership should contact and learn from the NAR/Tripoli battles with the ATF. Then work with the FAA to insure that the public is safe, and minimize the “damage” to our hobby. We’re responsible pilots. Lets be responsible citizens. Civil disobedience and crazy talk (like some in this blog) won’t get you what you want, just a court date.
It seems the FAA is just going to do what the ATF would do, keep going and use their authority. Let’s see. If I was the FAA, after the February deadline passes, I would go to the local flying field. All those flying with no registration would get a ticket or arrested. Then you can hire a lawyer, pay him your life savings, etc. See my point?
If the AMA is still saying, don’t register, it puts the AMA in a difficult legal position. Especially if public opinion is “public safety”. The general public wants safety, don’t care about RC airplanes. And, that’s why I think on most points, the AMA is gonna loose.
I’m with the AMA. But after the February deadline, I’ll either register, or put my plane in the shed until the smoke clears. David H.
I agree with most all of your comments. What I fear is that FAA will see this act of civil disobedience and say, “Ok, if that’s the way you want to play, here’s some operational rules to protect the safety of manned aircraft: (1) Absolutely zero non-commercial sUAS/UAS flight above 400′ AGL anywhere to provide altitude separation between manned and unmanned aircraft in most places is the national airspace; (2) No non-commercial sUAS/UAS flight within the lateral confines of class B, C, or D airspace to protect aircraft in the airport traffic area – exceptions only with written permission of both the airport operator and ALL servicing ATC facilities; (3) No non-commercial sUAS/UAS flight within 5nm of heliports to protect manned aircraft operating in/around these locations SVFR; (4) No non-commercial sUAS/UAS flight within the lateral limits of any Military Training Route (MTR) during published hours of operation to protect manned military aircraft operating at low altitude and high speeds; (5) No non-commercial sUAS/UAS operation over non-participating people on the ground.
If AMA wants to play hardball, fine. But they better prepared to get hit.
Here’s a classic case of ignorance on the part of the public at large about model aircraft – regardless of whether they are rc planes or the so-called “drones.” I went to see my eye doctor earlier this fall. After my appointment, I wanted to see about getting another pair of sunglasses that fit over my regular glasses. And I got to talking to this lady, and told her I fly rc airplanes. And she immediately asked me “you mean drones?” I had to stretch my arms out to resemble airplane wings. And I told her about the AMA safety code and the emphasis on safety on the part of AMA members and clubs. She just didn’t get it. I once dreamed about using one of those quadcopters as part of my graphic art and web design business. So much for that one. I’m just as disgusted as many people are here about the whole regulation thing. But the world has changed. And it’s not a very nice one. I put my thoughts on the whole mess in my LinkedIn. But some of the solutions people have offered give me at least some hope. To see my post in LinkedIn, visit here: FAA – You Put In Jeopardy A Great Hobby Due To The Actions Of A Bunch Of Non-Caring RC Pilot Wannbes!
If the AMA had simply opposed this ”new” FPV technology from getting into our hobby and kept us ”flying in line of site only”…. we would not be having this conversation now…
But no,,, the AMA caved into all the ”poor little rich boys” who wanted to ruin our hobby and now, we have the FAA breathing down our necks… The law is out, and you better register, or face fines if you don’t…. It will take months to get the FAA to change their minds..
Just couldn’t be happy flying line of sight, so now the whole hobby is suffering… All this could have been avoided…
First time member as of today. Just got in to model flying just this year… lol picked a good time. Should have been a member from day 1. My bad. Seems everything we do these days has to be a drawn out political battle.
What LAW? What Rule? What Registration…What is going to actually make
a difference? What is actually going to stop an accident, collision, from happening anywhere? Anywhere at all?
This registration and more rules won’t stop a single thing from happening !!
More idiotic rules trying to stop the smallest count of idiots!
Those of us who are responsible pilots of anything….should “not” have to be screaming in the streets !! To be heard by any new rulemakers!
I am not a member of the AMA because I do not see any benefits for or my family. I use to be a member but I do not want to go to the airfield and prefer to fly my planes and prefer to fly in my backyard. The airfield costs 200.00 a year with a one time 100.00 registration fee(To add my son it would be an additional 200.00). Also, the 1,000,000 insurance that is provided by the AMA is only good if I fly at an AMA approved airfield. The planes I fly are scratch built and some of them go around 80-100mph but most are slow flyers and most of them are UMX. I do not see the point of spending the money to get an AMA membership if it gives me no benefits. Some people will say that they help with legislation but so far I just don’t see it and when this whole drone registry shakes out I think that the AMA will push to have their members (and only their members) exempt from the registry. I feel that the AMA is going to try to get laws passed similar to New Zealand and that is very scary.
Eric,
AMA insurance is not limited to flying at club fields.
Flyer for 30+ years. I was interested in the many comments so far and was a little unsure of what to do for myself. I have several fixed wing and one hex-rotor. Just a little while ago I found this on the Forbes WED site:”The FAA finally confirmed this afternoon that model aircraft registrants’ names and home addresses will be public. In an email message, the FAA stated: “Until the drone registry system is modified, the FAA will not release names and address. When the drone registry system is modified to permit public searches of registration numbers, names and addresses will be revealed through those searches.” That’s it, I won’t register until I see what happens with the AMA actions. If I were a plotter of evil I would go the FFA web and find a registration number(maybe of someone I didn’t like), put it on a “drone” and fly it through an FAA complex.
Doesn’t the requirement of a credit card right away disallow anyone with bad credit or no credit. This requirement should be removed as it will not allow anyone who cannot get a credit card to operate a drone. Nor do many 13 year olds have credit cards.
Ama,you have virtually killed an industry with your short sighted drone love affair. I wonder how many fixed wing and general hobby businesses will be around this time next year. About 8 weeks ago I received notice of Castle Creations amazing discount program 30% across the board,I thought well they are over stocked and have new products coming on stream. Wonder if they got wind of the fiasco and tried to batten down the hatches as it were. I think they got wind of this early and being a smart company took proper steps.
I suspect that when this FAA crap starts to take effect and sink in there will be many,many serious modelers who put the brakes on model related purchases across the board. I for one have put my plans back to the back burner.
Stepping off the soap box for now.
Administrator Huerta expects modelers to read and comply with Federal Aviation Regulations, but does not appear to know his own rules when he replied to a reporter’s question during the UAS Registration Task Force
press conference, “It is illegal to drop anything or shoot anything from any aircraft operating in the National Airspace System”!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohkIMnImhE8 at 31:12
“Sec. 91.15 — Dropping objects.
No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.” Good news for full scale pilots dropping bags of flour, bowling balls, or pumpkins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxTesysKFFg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wL8x_piDOhs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgKDcvtAfZk
And as far as shooting from: an aircraft, check out these guys: http://www.helihunter.com/ or search for “Helicopter Hog Hunting” on Youtube.
The Airborne Hunting Act, Public Law 92-159, approved November 18, 1971 prohibits “shooting or attempting to shoot or harrassing any bird, fish, or other animal from aircraft except for certain specified reasons, including protection of wildlife, livestock, and human life as authorized by a Federal or State issued license or permit.” (predator hunting)
I agree with an earlier comment that at this point AMA has done more harm than good with the FAA and of course the news media has not helped. Considering how slow Washington is about doing any thing, the FAA sure did get this Rule done very quickly. It does make one wonder their real reason. Its not to make the skies safer. Registration will not accomplish that goal. If we were to believe the news media then why not target Quad copters “drones”. That is what they depict as drones. The AMA needs to work harder in the courts and congress. Talking with FAA will not accomplish anything. Their minds are already made up. Some good media coverage would not hurt. At this point we are headed towards looking for a different hobby.
We are on a slippery slope. When R/C pilots are lumped together with UAS pilots, we must follow their same rules and regulations. This includes passing the FAA’s written test and their physical. For example, diabetics won’t pass the physical. Also, our names and addresses will be in public domain. Something to think about.
So, what’s the endgame? Do we honestly believe that the our AMA membership will be accepted in lieu of registration? Do we expect the FAA to concede it’s authority?
The FAA is currently fighting state and local attempts to regulate drones, correctly arguing that they have the authority to regulate our craft. If we manage to convince lawmakers that is not the case, I expect we will be very unhappy with the results.
Since the FAA wants to regulate remote control toys, perhaps they should change their name to better represent their new responsibilities. I propose the name to be officially changed from “FAA” to “FATA” – Federal Aviation and Toy Administrations. Seems quite fitting.
Need to make a public and private comment to AMA members and AMA admin people.
“I expressly prohibit the AMA to make my personal information available to any government or quasi government group i.e.. FAA etc,etc. Under no circumstance are you allowed to share this information with anyone.”
Disregarding this notice will result in severe punative legal measures against those who go against my wishes.
STRONGLY SUGGEST TO AMA MEMBERS THAT THIS BECOME A BLANKET STATEMENT TO THE AMA.
Oh yeah. we all want to do whatever is necessary to protect our country……..that is until WE, ourselves are inconvenienced, then all the griping starts. I cant see what all the fuss is about. If you have nothing to hide. The 5 bucks is refunded if you register in the first 30 days so just relax, fly and have fun.
I’m also wondering about the IRCHA Jamboree. The IRCHA Jamboree is going to be held in early August of 2016. Typically there are over 1000 registered pilots attending. IRCHA has already voiced its displeasure over registration and the privacy violations. What about Joe Nall? Is the FAA going to be at either event performing compliance checks?
Frankly, this whole thing is making me sick. There are way too many unanswered questions, so AMA, what is going to happen? What is AMA doing, exactly and I mean EXACTLY?
I really don’t want the AMA working with the FAA to figure out how to streamline the registration process for their members, I want the AMA to band together with their industry partners, congress, senate, etc. and figure out how to stop this now before it gets underway. I’m afraid this will be only the first step, who knows how this will grow once we all accept that we must register. What good is it going to do anyway. What is the purpose of registering again? Only the law abiding will register anyway.
And in most cases, even the law abiding will not register. It’s called “Civil Disobedience”.. let ’em arrest me for flying “unregistered” at my local flying field. What a load of crap. The FAA registers aircraft, not people. What are we? Sex Offenders?
SO, AMA, here’s a question. As a newer member, I thought, so register, a nuisance, but you’ll probably not have a choice given the current political climate. See my posting above.
Now, a newer issue really bothers me.
WILL our registration info be “searchable”?
WILL our personal data, ANY of it, be available to the public, or even the news media?
If so, I’m done with RC model planes. I don’t want my info flying around the world. (not a joke). Any purchases of new planes and equipment is on hold, and my 2016 AMA membership will be my last. And I will sell or give away my plane.
I can handle registering. But if anyone can get my name, number, or address. NO! David H.
Go read this: https://www.faa.gov/uas/registration/faqs/#priv
“Q47. Who can see the data that I can enter?
A. The FAA will be able to see the data that you enter. The FAA is using a contractor to maintain the website and database, and that contractor also will be able to see the data that you enter. Like the FAA, the contractor is required to comply with strict legal requirements to protect the confidentiality of the personal data you provide. Under certain circumstances, law enforcement officers might also be able to see the data.
Q48. Will my email address be used for other purposes? Will you make it available to other agencies or companies?
A. No.”
Yes! your name and address will be available to the public. What bothers me too, is that if anyone gets your numbers they can go buy a aircraft put your numbers on the craft and do anything illegal with your numbers.
Perhaps we should fly our underwear on poles like flags so that they can also see the color. Or better yet; run around butt naked. That way they can know everything. I mean why not since they have opened up a can of worms with the insanity they have created.
I am pleased to see that I am not the only one worried about the registration numbers being in the public domain. Marking a UAS with the FAA registration number of someone, which is easily searchable, that lives in your area is nothing more than an invite for a cruel joke. I am sure someone, or a group of irresponsible people are already planning to have fun watching the police invade someone’s house in the middle of the night with guns drawn because a UAS was deliberately flown into a point of interest. Obviously the entire issue will be sorted out after the innocent victim of the joke (crime) spends a few days/weeks in jail, and pays tens of thousands of dollars in lawyer and court cost to be released. Of course now that this person has a federal criminal record (charged but not convicted) his or her life is ruined.
The FAA clearly did not think of the physical and financial hardship that can be caused by publishing personally identifiable information in the public domain.
Well I visited the FAA site on this overreach toy airplane registration day and found nothing.
Called the help line and its closed.
So much for the FAA taking this regulation seriously! Did they use the same website team as ObamaCare? Right on FAA please do focus on the real problems and toy airplanes is not one of them.
They so far have bungled their registration site. As of 10:20 AM Eastern Time (as I’m writing this), the button to register to the FAA site is not operational. Therefore, I could not register. Maybe they should have had me design their web site!!! I consider mistakes of this sort to be totally unacceptable. People do make mistakes sometimes, but there is no excuse for something this major. Better yet, let’s not have a registration site. Work through the AMA instead.
https://registermyuas.faa.gov
Oh hell, the FAA’S SITE IS DOWN AND ITS LOOKING LIKE ANOTHER OBUMMER HEALTH CARE SIGN UP NIGHTMARE! WHAT A DAMNED JOKE! THIS HAS TO BE A JOKE, RIGHT?
It seems that there is no clear working link to registration. This could all because the FAA has not thought through the complexities of bringing a registration system online, or it could serve a more sinister agenda.
What would be the legal situation if people could not comply with UAS registration by their deadline – regardless of the “availability” of their service? I am reminded of the situation raised by the Marihuana Stamp Act of 1937, which banned by force of a catch-22, all legal ways to possess marijuana. Perhaps, the intent is just to ground most outdoor flight; after all, anything flying under remote control and over 250 grams would have to be unregistered…
I am not convinced that the FAA is operating with any good faith on this issue. If the registration availability issue persists, that may well be adequate defense, perhaps it is time for some civil disobedience?
If you’ve seen the front page of that site, it clearly depicts a quad-copter, and uses the term ‘drone’. Quoted from the site link “Register My Drone”. I would assume it wouldn’t be too hard to legally define the difference between a drone and a traditional RC aircraft which requires line of sight to operate. This is the government after all, so maybe I have my expectations set a little too high…
I am delightfully surprised by this announcement. I am hoping that the AMA finally realized they are being used by the FAA and whatever agencies on this so call board to figure out what to do with the suas issue. They were totally ignored. Meaning we were totally ignored. The government doesn’t give a dam about this they just want to over see and “TAX” everyone for everything. Its all about money and being your boss cause they know better than you. I will not register any craft unless its for commercial purposed then they are dragging feet on that whole situation also.
Does this mean I can’t fly my aircraft until you guys get the “ok”?
FAA registration web site still not up!
FAA rules appear to require registration of ALL read EVERY sUA. That’ s Aircraft not just pilot.
A strict reading is every aircraft must have an N number. Just like full scale manned aircraft.
Every aircraft! Check out he FAA aircraft registration information web sire for paper registration. They want too much information about the aircraft.
Must wait and see what is really required to register online.
Is it legal to fly without registering?
21 December and web site is not available??
I’m gonna keep flying.. You don’t have to register until Feb..and I doubt very seriously the registration police are on the hunt anyway. The only way you’ll get stopped is if your flying your Drone or Model Aircraft in an unsafe manner and where you shouldn’t be anyway.
You can fly legaly tell the 20th deadline..
Thanks to the AMA for stepping in to preventing this non sense, I really don’t see why we have to register with FAA when we already have registration through AMA, FAA should indeed focus on real problems, leave the hobby aside.
What happens if I decide to hold off and the cops arrest me because I didn’t register my Aircraft? Will AMA help me with the Lawyers expenses?
I’ve held a FAA Commercial pilot’s license since 1973 and I’ve owned several airplanes. I can tell you that the most common FAA enforcement action is license suspension or revocation … I expect them to do the same for UAS registration. And the FAA has made pilot’s license and aircraft registration information available to the public for as long as I can remember … I expect them to do the same for UAS registration.
Tom, this is Model Aircraft, not an actual full size plane. Makes no sense.
“I expect them to do the same for UAS registration.” … translated – The FAA will make your registration information available to the public and and you can expect the FAA to revoke or suspend your registration if you violate any UAS rule.
And for those of you who hold a FAA pilot’s license, there have been several articles claiming the FAA may revoke or suspend them as punishment for of a UAS violation. Personally, I don’t want to take that risk.
I just registered, and it was the most burdensome four minutes of my life — the four minutes that it took to establish an account AND register was so traumatic.
I’m sure the AMA thanks you for following their request to hold off on registering. Thanks for having a backbone and being a Team AMA player. (Total sarcasm intended).
I completely disagree with the AMA’s approach. A long time ago I learned that there is no problem that cannot be made worse. Consider what happens if FAA views this petulant behavior by AMA and decides to escalate – by formally denying the AMA’s request to be recognized as a CBO? There would be some poetic justice in that from the FAA’s perspective, as the AMA’s much touted 336 language would be a set of golden handcuffs.
Well we know who definitely ISN’T a team player or supporter of AMA.
I completely disagree with the AMA’s approach. I registered, marked my heli, laminated the card for my wallet, and flew legally 15 minutes later.
You do know that by registering you have relinquished ALL your RIGHTS under the law that Congress passed in Section 336 don’t you?
You are also violating the LAW, which is a Federal law, which means, you can now be charged with a FELONY!
The FAA has coerced and threatened you with heavy fines and jail for abiding by the LAW!
The FAA doesn’t make laws.
Congress makes the laws.
Supreme court doesn’t even make the laws.
Congress makes the laws!
I hope you enjoy being GROUNDED!
M, I’m a law abiding citizen who is exercising my rights that are backed up by the…….LAW!
When you get out of jail and have any free time, which I’m sure you will have, because nobody is going to want to hire a felon, you can come down to the rc club and watch all of us having fun flying our aircraft and reminence of better times you had before you decided to be a criminal…
Happy Flying, I hope the years roll by quickly for you while your sitting behind bars
How did you get in? For the rest of us, the “drone” registration site is not yet available. Do you have access to a test site, or something? Are you just being sarcastic?
I got in at the https://registermyuas.faa.gov/. It honestly took less than five minutes, with the biggest part of that waiting for the initial verification email to show. Took all of another ten minutes to print a label for my heli and laminate the card for my wallet.
Congratulations, now you are part of a Federal Database of scapegoats.
I’ve been part of federal databases for over 20 years…doesn’t really concern me. I’d rather be flying legally fifteen minutes after I registered than being part of an effort to push back on the very organization that controls the space in which we fly.
I have been trying for 40 minutes so far. I got an account set up, but it keeps giving me an error “Received Unknown Parameter: token” when trying to enter a credit card number. I wonder how many times I have been charged $5.00.
Wait! I just got something else. The page went blank, and now it says “This webpage has a redirect loop ERR_TOO_MANY_REDIRECTS”
This is easy!
*** problem solved ***
I think my issue was that the credit card I tried to use might have been only in my wife’s name. The system gives no user feedback, but I took a guess that (1) this was the problem, and (2) that some over-zealous programmer had programmed the systems to think I was trying to cheat the system by making a mistake on the credit card.
I created an entirely new login account with a slightly different email address, and used a different credit card. Then I was able to register in less than 3 minutes as Frank mentioned. Up until then, I had wasted a few hours trying everything else.
Sorry to hear that Frank. I do hope you will be able to recover from the trauma !
I did, by flying legally at a non-AMA location, under the liability coverage of my own homeowners policy, less than 15 minutes after registering.
Glad to hear you’re getting the comb-webs out Frank. Now that your information is public information just be extra careful.
the stupidity of people is almost unbelievable. you cant just let government agents do what they want. this is an act against our liberty, they have no right, good or bad.
I beg to differ. This is hardly a constitutional issue. This is a federal agency responding to a justifiable risk to the safety of people in the air and on the ground, and they’re doing it in a quite reasonable way. AMA going to the mat over using AMA numbers vice FAA numbers is diminimus at best. Furthermore, FAA clearly articulated in their response to the comments why that won’t work anyway.
The idiocy involved in your decision and the trauma associated with living in a country with people like you is far worse than any trauma you experience.
Holding off is not a problem, the FAA web site does not work as of 12/21/2015 @ 12:47 PM EST….
https://registermyuas.faa.gov
It’s been all over the media like a the media feeding frenzy – go register your drones, go register your drones, go register your drones … If you listen to the media enough they are likely to drive you crazy with their simplistic view of things.
The paranoia is unbelievable. There is a bugaboo around almost every corner. This has to be an American thing. LOL.
Why are you people even trying to register??? The FAA has no legal foot to stand on, not to mention, AMA said to hold off. What’s wrong with you people??
I also understand that our registration information i.e. names and addresses will be available to the public. I don’t want my name and address available to any marketing engine to fill my junk mail folder with more junk mail. I also am not happy giving my credit card info to a government that has a proven track record of NOT being able to keep it secure and out of the hands of ID theives.
Did you have to agree to the list of items such as 400′ limit? I am NOT going to register if I have to agree to those items that are not even rules or laws. It is just something they threw in there to coheres us into something they want!
Here’s where I registered…numbering appears completely different than AMA’s numbering scheme
https://registermyuas.faa.gov/
OK, Frank, you can fess up to it now. We ALL know your with the FAA. Nice try though. Propaganda tactics are getting old. The masses are not as stupid as you in believing were falling for your lies. Paleaseeeeeeeee!
I asked this question once before here and also ask the same question to the AMA and did not get an answer. Our MODEL AIRCRAFT are now called AIRCRAFT. Those AMA member that are home owners, our Home owners insurance covers us, then the AMA. If I owned a full size AIRCRAFT (Cessna 182 ex.) I would have to buy separate insurance for it, like I do for my boat, car ect. If anyone has the answer to this or knows the answer let us know. Hope this does’t open up a new can of worms. Thanks.
AMA finally grew some ‘nads.
Better late that never.
The 2012 exemption for model aircraft IS LAW.
The over-reach of Govt. “agencies” to define law and policy is ILLEGAL.
A kin to the “the abridged bill of rights” (yes a LEOpunk actually called it that in the hearing of myself!) abuse of the color of authority is also extra-legal junk.
As I have stated before: I WILL NOT REGISTER MY MODEL AIRCRAFT, not now not in February.
I will and have for years complied with the AMA safety code as voluntary compliance, not as BS shoved into my gullet by an illegitimate government.
Don’t Tread On Me; a motto of the founding fathers.
That’s correct, Ray Phillips – it is now 2:20 CST and the link to the registry page leads to a blank page. FAA does not have its act together here after so much bla-bla.
At this point I am content to hold off and hope that common sense prevails in this, especially with regard to the FAA itself following the law and abiding by Public Law 112-95 of February 14, 2012, specifically Sec. 336, provisions (a), (a)(1),(a)(2) and (a)(3) As quoted below:
SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law
relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into
Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this
subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration
may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model
aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational
use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a communitybased
set of safety guidelines and within the programming
of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds
unless otherwise certified through a design, construction,
inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered
by a community-based organization;
Since AMA is a “community based organization,” with a “community based set of guidelines” it seems pretty clear that we as AMA members are exempt since the FAA “may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model
aircraft” within those parameters.
The AMA has requested that FAA recognize them as a CBO, but the FAA has not acted on that letter. In fact, I’m concerned that FAA will see this pushback by AMA and send a signal – by formally denying the AMA’s request. I suppose there would be some poetic justice in that from the FAA’s perspective, as the AMA’s much quoted language in 336 would then become a set of golden handcuffs.
AMA has 80 years of existence with a consistent safety track record.
What’s going to happen is, and I’m sure AMA already knows this, is, one can only be exempt if they are a member of AMA.
If one chose not to be a member of AMA, then in order for that person to LEGALLY fly in NAS, that person must register with the FAA.
What really needed and/or needs to be addressed is, what exactly is the definition of a drone.
My belief of what a drone is, is this, Anything that is programmed with GPS coordinates that flies outside and beyond the line of sight.
Yes, these should have to have a certificate, license etc.
No need to explain why, its obvious.
David against Goliath is what it looks like.
https://www.change.org/p/federal-aviation-adminitration-stop-the-faa-act-requiring-drone-model-aircraft-pilot-registration
Let’s see the FAA ignore everyone. Sign the petition and let’s see if they listen.
If they can ignore a law ( which they did ) which was written into law for model aircraft they can surely ignore a petition. Think about it.
Sure. They can ignore a petition. But they still have to post an official response to any petition that meets the requirement.
But the point of a petition is also to show Congress that we are unhappy with what the FAA has done and they need to stand up and deal with them.
In support of AMA stand against FAA needless registration requirements I had purchased, for the first time ever, an AMA membership.
The FAA Drone UAS registration is open and seems to be working, but still hold your ground as the AMA suggests.
I just wonder if the large retail stores, selling so called “drones” ie, multirotors and mini helicopters by the truck load, have posted large signs, at point of sale to warn purchasers; “All model drones and helicopters must be registered as aircraft with the Federal Government; FAA”?
That would kill a lot of their sales. If this was the case, the manufacturers wouldn’t support this registration requirement.
I am sitting here with a $2000 E-sailplane on the bench, one of many I own and don’t know where this will end. I don’t want to put my FAA certificate (Commercial multi instrument) at risk of suspension for flying an RC plane.
I have some thing for the AMA to ask the FAA
1) AMA members are registered , and shouldn’t this be enough for the FAA (if they really care about the $5 , then AMA subs should include this fee )
2) If i walk into a store on or after the 21st Dec 2015, will they be asking me to show my FAA registration ?
or force me to register with proof of ID before i leave store
3) Who is going to be enforcing this, will i be asked for proof while i am flying by an Officer of the law ?
(and will i be considered resisting if i first have to land my Helicopter, Multi Rotor or Plane)
4) How will this stop the other menace , RC Cars ragging up and down roads with full size cars
(and yes they can carry some form of pay load if desired )
Agreeing to Register, puts everyone in a list and if they don’t comply in the future for Fee’s etc are we liable to be arrested at our home ?
Regarding point #1, FAA addressed this in the linked document on page 131 and elsewhere.
“Regarding the comment seeking to display an AMA number in particular, the Civil Aircraft Registry and the registration system implemented in this IFR are premised on the ability to uniquely identify and owner and their aircraft. The FAA does not govern the membership structures of section 336 organizations and cannot be assured of the uniqueness of those organizations’ identification systems. Therefore, the FAA has no assurance that such a member number will provide the requisite unique identifier. Thus, the FAA will maintain an FAA-issued registration number for the marking scheme for small unmanned aircraft used as model aircraft.”
https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/20151213_IFR.pdf
Just to reiterate what others have already said, while the registry is not searchable at this time, the FAA will be making it searchable by the public in future.
https://www.engadget.com/2015/12/18/faa-confirms-that-drone-registry-info-will-be-public-record/
I’ve seen way too many people invoking the “this is no different than registering a car” argument, and I counter that this is completely different. A car has a serial number. Thus, even if somebody makes a fake license plate, and then causes an accident with a car using my license plate number, the police will have no difficulty sorting out that it was NOT my car involved. Furthermore, even if questioned, I have undeniable physical evidence that it was not my car, in that my car is still sitting in my driveway.
With a fleet-wide registration number for non-serialized devices, unauthorized use of a registration number could be a legal nightmare FOR THE LEGITIMATE HOLDER! This isn’t rocket science. The FAA is planning on a publicly-searchable database, containing all the information required to commit a crime in somebody else’s name!
I think I am done with this hobby it has gone down hill fast. Not really fun anymore having to worry that someone may get mad because you are flying your RC airplane. I’m out and out of the ama for good. It’s been a good 20 years but not fun anymore.
Sorry to hear that Ken. I also started in this hobby some time ago and it has been mentally stimulating, educational, and fun. I guess mentally stimulating, educational, and fun are now taboos. Sad; truly sad times we now live in. We seem to be reaching new lows with each passing day.
Going to hold off registering or renewing at this point, if it comes down to FAA or AMA by mandate I choose neither.
How about just have a bypass section on their site that we can just add our AMA number? I don’t see why they would need anything else, not even our CC#. That would prove we are on board with the safety bylaws of the AMA and community. I’m just not down with the idea of my address on another “secure” government server. witch BTW i’m dealing with issues of information invasion due to my old status of active duty in the army. Just a heads up for you guys who may have already registered… SGT Matthew R. Brothers US ARMY RETIRED.
These new rules specifically ban any flying of any model by FPV. To me this is a huge problem! I’ve flown all types of models for 30 years and the only thing I really enjoy now is rc combat and flying and racing FPV. There is a huge FPV industry out there. Suddenly my hobby is illegal!! We race at heights of 0 to 40 feet 99% of the time. How are we be any danger to aircraft.
If your only problem is you have to register you have it easy compared to all the FPV flyers out there who are now criminals.
When UAS are outlawed, only outlaws will own UAS…
It is nonsense to force law abiding citizens to register anything in pursuit of a hobby. Seems to me it is again a case of the government using an excuse to step on the rights of American citizens.
Those rights are quickly diminishing. Diminish rights and gain more control to control as they please. If it continues at its current pace, you can imagine where it is going.
Not sure what weight it will pull, but I have contacted Senator Ted Cruz to take action on the ignored FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012. Hope it does something.
Ignored is correct. A law at that too.
You know, with all this palaver, I think former First Lady Nancy Reagan said it best;
“JUST SAY NO”… Really, what are they going to do?
Adding to my comment I have been an AMA member for 10 years. I agree with holding off on registering with the FAA. One of the main reasons I am a member is I want to be involved in an organization that fights for ideas I believe in. Hopefully the AMA can bring some common sense reasoning to the FAA and help to make them understand we are hobbyists. As responsible adults we are concerned with our safety and the safety of others. We do not need another government agency dictating their idea of what to them is the answer to any problems they think may be a problem.
Corse there may be a hidden reason behind this.
@AMA: Pay attention to this: https://jrupprechtlaw.com/myrupprecht-laws-analysis-of-the-faas-published-drone-registration-rule
Skipping to the end:
“The only 2 scenarios I see where someone would step in to challenge this rule would be: (1) a large group like the Academy of Model Aeronautics on behalf of its members or maybe some large organization focused on protecting people’s privacy or (2) someone receiving an enforcement action or criminal prosecution and is capitalized well enough to pay an attorney to fight this as opposed to settling for a lower amount than prosecution.”
Hey AMA, we can always get the ACLU to file a lawsuit! I know nobody doesn’t like the ACLU, but, at least they will file a lawsuit against the FAA and government and quite possibly represent any one charged with Felonies and fines for exercising their RIGHTS!!!!!
Maybe IQ test results should be required documentation…
I agree. IQ results of those at the FAA.
I am re-posting this response to an individual, as I feel it has relevance to everyone interested in this subject.
I have been an AMA modeler for decades, building and flying sailplanes and powered aircraft. A few years ago I started flying multirotors, not because they were “easier” but because they served the purpose of more stability for aerial photo. I never have flown beyond line of sight, I never have flown in the vicinity of full scale aircraft. The ability to fly autonomously does not interest me, for my purposes. The auto stability and GPS return to home is nice but I do not rely on it either. I am always a split second from full manual mode if necessary. I am well aware that a few knukleheads have done some ignorant things, but I believe that it has been much overblown by the media and an excuse to gain control of all RC by the Feds. If I am not correct, explain why they didn’t just target multirotors, and sidestep all of this AMA controversy. Blaming a feature, or a type of aircraft as the reason for this is misplaced, even though I am willing to admit their enormous appeal, accelerated the attention. It might be an excuse but we all know it is not the reason. Try to keep your angst directed where it belongs, an overreaching federal agency. We could use this to our advantage if we opened ourselves up to accepting newbies whatever aircraft they choose to fly. I would love to see the FAA open to the idea of AMA membership in-lieu of federal registration. I wouldn’t give a rats ass if they flew a quadcopter or a garbage can if they were learning how to fly safely. It would be a win-win for us all. Lastly, if I am not mistaken, the technology despised by some here has been available in various other model aircraft for years. Don’t want to sound hokey here, but united we can have many more decades of fantastic educational hobby, but if they are able to divide us into those who fly with more than one propeller on top and those who don’t, AMA is done for.
Lol, garbage can that’s too funny, but seriously your comment is spot on, that’s exactly what they did use the overblown media reports to justify the registration for all Air RC, not just the quadcopters, of course they over reached but then again that’s what the government has been doing for a long time. We have to hold them accountable in some way or it’s just government running wild and no longer for the people by the people, it’s become an entity unto itself! Like I have said at least justify the $5 as a cert fee, if indeed you really care about safety otherwise it’s just another excuse for feeing the public to death and control. Any way you slice it it comes up totalitarian.
Have other discovered that even thought he FAA web site stated the information entered would not be searchable, most of the information being entered is in fact searchable.
Privacy
Q48. Who can see the data that I can enter?
A. The FAA will be able to see the data that you enter. The FAA is using a contractor to maintain the website and database, and that contractor also will be able to see the data that you enter. Like the FAA, the contractor is required to comply with strict legal requirements to protect the confidentiality of the personal data you provide. Under certain circumstances, law enforcement officers might also be able to see the data. In the future, the registration database will be searchable by registration number, but not by name or address. However, it is not searchable at this time.
I love that part right here… “it is not searchable at this time.” So it will be at some point obviously
I registered today. Just so you all know: They ask your name, address, and email. Then they give you a registration number that you are supposed to write on your registerable craft with permanent marker (or engrave or something). They don’t ask for any other information. Unless you are afraid to have your name in the FAA database, I don’t see much ‘danger’ in it.
So, when they make the database public (this is the FAA’s stated position, not some tinfoil-cap doomsday speculation), how do you plan to keep somebody from impersonating your registration, and conceivably crashing a ‘drone’ in your name?
How do you plan to prove that it WASN’T you operating said aircraft?
Yup. Plus, AFAIK, they want your credit card info too. If you don;t have one, you can’t register. Since it will be searchable, I think I will just find someone else who registered and use their number. (I will be searchable both by name and registration number, if it allows wild cards, won;t be hard to fins “Henry’s” number)
@Luke
There are several ways to prove that nefarious actions aren’t the result of your or your aircraft. The primary means being proper investigative processes through local law enforcement that eliminate suspect activity through due course and actions. I have no doubt that the hobbyists who wish to be taken seriously and wish to fly safely will not find themselves in such positions. Accountability is what it’s all about. A registration alone may not provide this but its a step in the right direction in creating a culture of safety, education, and responsibility.
@Henry
I too have registered and am now excited to get back into the skies and enjoy what I’ve been enjoying for years. Congrats on your registration!
If I’m safe and responsible, that will somehow prevent my publicly-available information from being misused by an irresponsible, unaccountable punk?
Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge, being on the receiving end of “proper investigative processes” is not a walk in the park for the initial suspect, regardless of how innocent he is in actuality. Frankly, I have better things to do than be the subject of a police investigation (or even a court appearance).
Lastly, you fail to actually list any actual methods to prove your aircraft was not involved. Saying (in effect) that “the police will sort it out in the end” isn’t terribly reassuring. Admittedly, if you’re lucky, you’ll have witnesses that can account for your whereabouts, cellphone pings, fingerprints, etc., but what if you’re unlucky?
As you’ve probably gathered, I’m risk-averse; I don’t like to leave things to chance. I’ve operated model aircraft for the better part of two decades in a safe, responsible fashion, but that doesn’t mean I want to enter my name in what could end up being nothing more than a raffle, with the grand prize being your own personal police investigation.
Try telling ALL the people who are wrongly in jail for something they were not guilty of that they were “properly” investigated.
You don’t have a clue do you Mr.FAA?
Take your propaganda elsewhere, were not that stupid………
Registered and excited; what a fantastic combination. Registration for now BUT let’s see what else comes down the pike. Stay tuned.
Yesterday and again today, I heard a report on CNBC stating that FAA expects 800,000 new drones (quads, hex, etc.) to be purchased this holiday season. There is little wonder why AMA is angry that they have not been named a community-based organization. There is little mention of AMA in ANY news report. Imagine if AMA got 1/2 of those 800,000 new folks to register? In the end, it’s all about money. I doubt AMA will get 1000 new registrations out of the estimated 800,000 new folks out there. For the record not anti AMA–I’m a member, just renewed a couple of days ago.
I would have AMA get all the money then some federal govt. agency.
Do you enjoy watching 80 year old couple at the airport asking them to get off their wheel chairs, take off their coats and go through security int he name of safety where Steve Wozniak will slip in ceramic fork and knife for his onbaord stake??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4R3hODnTGo
Selective propaganda is what it is. The AMA represents model aviation and has for 80-years yet all of a sudden the FAA appears on the scene. You know something fishy is brewing.
The database is searchable from day one
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
https://registry.faa.gov/CurrentReg/
https://registry.faa.gov/CurrentReg/CurrentRegReport_Results.aspx?Mfrtxt=DJI&Sort_Option=2&PageNo=1
went in and put DJI (last link) boom, anyone can see who has nice s1000+ smh this is bad people.
I have unique name so no has registered under my name so far…sigh. It will be so easy for anyone to look me up. Damn parents, they could named me John Smith..
I also searched for my custom made planes and results were zero.
My planes are:
Diamond Dust
Busy bee
Beer belly
Hard On
Chickita
Down Under
This is bad…
You have likely searched the “traditional” paper application aircraft registry data base. That has sUAS (drones) registered the traditional way … several thousand of them,… because they are operated by commercial UAS operators who have received
Section 333 Exemption grants from the FAA to be commercial drone operators. These grants come with a large numnber of terms and conditions (over 30 of them) relating to commercial operations . One of those conditions requires individual drones operated under the 333 exemption process to be registered as aircraft under Part 47 rules (which is the regular aircraft registry, and is, indeed, subject to public search). Note that the UAS you found here in this search have “N-Numbers”, the tradition aircraft registry number.
The new UAS non-commercial registry requirement that was effective yesterday does not grant N-numbers. It gives the user a number that he/she puts on the UAS aircraft they fly.
This is not to say that people who fly drones and register themselves in this new online procedure as drone users won’t end up in some publicly available file. But to think that the FAA registry went live yesterday, and a database is there today is, well, unlikely give the speed at which the FAA usually works.
Where do NON US CITIZENS stand?
Only US citizens can register and one must register to fly. So foreign legal residents and visitors will no longer be able to be part of this hobby.
Therefore no international contests can be held in the USA in future
Non U.S. citizens can fly, they just only get a certificate and DONT have to prove ownership.
Now U.S. citizens, according to the FAA, you have to register AND prove ownership!!!
Go and figure that one out!!!???
So in essence, a foreigner can fly here and terrorize us and we don’t have a clue to who done such an act.
The government is more concerned about its citizens being terrorists.
Reality is, government is the real terrorist and the citizens should be watching the government very closely and do something about it before its too late…
Yes – I have heard of this too. America is becoming a country detached from the global community.
I’ve made several comments on this, but here is another. My pc has been phished/hacked, we dont put our credit card info out on the internet. Now what?
The government can’t protect us from evil wrongdoers however they must try and convince the public they are taking steps to do so. We all know wrong doers won’t register.
You will see the government employees making speeches about the steps they have taken and the way out of line punishment they will inflict. The public will eat it up thinking this is for their privacy and protection. This is about government agencies justifying their jobs. Sign up,it’s harmless and will make your government feel good about what they have done, nothing to protect us.
I wish I had seen the AMA’s recommendation earlier. I registered first thing.
I started into model aircraft with a quad copter that I built for a research project in college.
Technically, mine counts as a ‘drone’ because it has a computer autopilot.
I agree with the majority of the postings I have seen here: drone control does nothing to control drones. (Eerily familiar sentiment, eh?)
I ask only one thing from longtime modelers: please educate new pilots, even ‘drone’ pilots, as you have always done. Teach them respect for people, property and privacy. Remind them that it only takes one inconsiderate pilot to make the entire community look unfavorable. And always remind them that they have a duty to keep people safe.
I have had to forcibly crash my quad to avoid a helicopter that buzzed our campus at treetop level. Yes, I swore up and down about the ‘yahoo’ in the whirlybird, but my (expensive) toy is nowhere near as important as a human life.
Please, remain the open Community that attracted me to modeling, and educate new pilots, drone or otherwise, about how to safely enjoy this wonderful hobby.
Mitchell, thank you for your comments, i think you will find that most AMA members, even if quads dont appeal to them, will still promote safe operation and encourage common sense use of their quads. Technology has made it easier to enjoy our great hobby, but that has also given miscreants another venue for criminal activities. As a newcomer,quad owner,and AMA member, you, also are a voice for responsible flying!
Mitchell, thank you for your comments, i think you will find that most AMA members, even if quads dont appeal to them, will still promote safe operation to newbies and encourage common sense use of their quads. Technology has made it easier to enjoy our great hobby, but that has also given miscreants another venue for criminal activities. As a newcomer,quad owner,and AMA member, you, also are a voice for responsible flying!
If by registering I am agreeing to the 400’ceiling then I’m out. I fly sailplanes primarily and there is no way to stay under a 400′ hard ceiling. And then knowing that the civil and criminal penalties for breaking that ceiling would be at least as stiff as the penalties for not registering…
rick
I agree. I have about 6 sailplanes, Xplorer 3.8, Pulsar 3.2 . Hotliners too, BulleT, Flash 2, E-Typhoon. Trying to keep these below 400′ would be a joke.
I may end up having to fly these RC aircraft in Canada as I live near the border, (far from any airports). At least in Canada, RC flight above 400′ is still legal.
I will wait until Feb 19th, but then will have to register. I don’t want to risk enforcement action from the FAA for flying RC Models above 400′ or not having them registered. I hold an FAA Airmans Certificate, Commercial multi Instrument.
AMA member since 2010
Great video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44zCLwmsvUU
FAA has violated their own rule-making process. If anyone is able to dispute this it will be overturned.
https://jrupprechtlaw.com/myrupprecht-laws-analysis-of-the-faas-published-drone-registration-rule
LOL 🙂 couldn’t stop laughing 🙂 that was sooooo funny
There IS ZERO benefit to registering our aircraft. This is a TAX on us as pilots which is unfair and unworthy. If someone wanted to commit a terrorist act with a model airplane, I highly disagree they would be in the registration database. All this amounts to is a TAX for the FAA to collect more revenue to fund an OUT OF CONTROL federal bureaucracy.
its no tax sir, your $5 fee will not make them enough money its about getting for federal funding now FAA has to worry about 6 million $100 dollar drones flying around.
Think about the economics!. Its a worth a shot on FAA part.
The FAA and our government have once again come up with a great workable solution to a major problem. If some one manages to detonate a drone loaded with C4 in a stadium full of spectators the FAA and the Feds will immediately be able to look up the drone registration number and properly and promptly nab the culprits. We are fortunate to have government entities that are thinking into the future. If not for the registration process it could take months or even years to find the perpetrators.
I was disappointed that a background check was not included as part of the edict from the FAA and particularly because so many registrants may be AMA members. Another helpful idea would be to serialize each drone thus enhancing the trace-ability of them during on site FAA inspections. Stolen drones could also be traced within the drone and pilot database. Now that I think about it, maybe it would be better for the FAA to confiscate all the model aircraft just to keep our country safe. Who can argue with being safe?
lol..
you forgot finger printing!!!
What about illegal immigrants???
Took me a second to realize the sarcasm. Nice.
While having to register with the FAA to be able to fly our model aircraft is a pain in the butt, I plan to do it anyway. I don’t think that any of us didn’t see it coming as soon as the first news reports started coming out about personal privacy invasions, incidents with full scale aircraft, or idiots crashing on the White House Lawn. And I’m willing to bet that as more and more of these types of incidents get reported, registration with the FAA will only be the first in a long line of steps taken to shut down the RC flying hobby all together. So enjoy it while we can folks, because the first time some stupid idiot does something really bad with any type of model aircraft, it’s over. And we all know just how possible that is.
I started and stopped. Reason is that I do believe that the AMA is correct in their stance. I would much prefer using my AMA registration # and associated ID information than that of the FAA abstract registration #. Acknowledgment of the AMA database as superior information and a better approach to community based compliance is what it’s all about. I will be glad to apply my AMA # prominently on all of my non-commercial aircraft and know my information is a lot safer than in an FAA database.
Let’s see if David can convince Goliath.
FAA pointed out in their comments to the rule that they view registration as a government function (AOPA does not register aircraft, EAA does not register aircraft, AAA does not register cars, etc. All are registered by government). Secondly, the FAA also expressed concerns that to allow that would not provide sufficient control over the membership structure to ensure uniqueness of the numbers.
Exactly. The FAA has no accountability, the AMA does. Hence, the FAA has no incentive to safeguard your information, whereas the AMA does. Hope the AMA wins this one.
Been flying RC since I was 10 years old. Flying professionally since 1989. Currently a Boeing 777 Captain and Check Airman.
I hope the AMA will consider asking for a new solution:
If the FAA would grant AMA chartered clubs, Prohibited airspace with a 1 mile radius and surface to 1200’AGL altitude volume the issue would be solved.
Drone (multi-rotor copter) hobby operators or could either join an AMA club or register and operate within the confines of the new rules. Local law enforcement agencies could handle the rest.
Anchorage passed a city ordnance that bans RC flying within city limits. Enforceable by local PD with confiscation and a $250 fine. Yeah they keep your drone.
I would suggest a $5000 fine and up to 30 days in jail. Ask that hobby shops inform purchasers and encourage club membership.
News media, both national and local, websites, Amazon, RCU, FG ect could all spread the word and inform the public at large. This would all become a dead issue and we could get back to flying.
Jason, our club got a NOTAM established giving us that airspace last year. The FAA recently deleted it with no notice to us. You are probably in the same position as me. I have an ATP and wonder how it is I can fly full scale in the same airspace but can’t fly a model.
…Yes, because none of us own property big enough to safely fly stick-and-tissue 12 oz. electric RC ships, and at the same time, want nothing to do with the FAA. Not to state the obvious, but we’re not all turbine/pattern/F3B guys. Honestly, as much as I think the registry is a terrible idea (ineffective and fraught with legal hazards), I’ve got to say that your idea is arguably worse.
If we’re going to talk about fines and jail time for non-hazardous operations, I’d sooner throw FPV under the bus, in exchange for an increase in the 8.8 oz. no-registration weight for everything else. Don’t take this the wrong way, I’ve flown a bit of short-range fixed-wing FPV (14 oz. foamy, puttering around my yard, down below the trees), and it was definitely a blast, but if there is one enabling technology for the majority of the unaccountable operations we’ve seen as of late, it’s undeniably FPV. To propose restricting all other types of RC aircraft (particularly those that have historically operated without interfering with manned aviation) is exceptionally vindictive.
Laws written to protect the public or their pockets ? We’ve been down this road many times now to know who really benefits.
Creating Prohibited airspace around model flying sites is a good cooperative solution but the DOT/FAA have obviously been tasked with getting these drones under control. In typical bureaucratic fashion they’ve designed this “Rule” for the irresponsible people (drone operators). As Huerta said “we want to make UAS operators accountable”. In other words they want to setup a punitive system rather than a cooperative system.
Jason, it is a shame that the regulators seem unwilling to listen to people like yourself with your obvious skill and knowledge on the subject. It perplexes me. I salute your accomplishments and willingness to contribute.
A $5000 fine and up to 30 days in jail for flying anywhere but an AMA sanctioned club field? I fly in my front yard, I have spent years perfecting my airport built for flying models and you want to fine me five grand and put me in jail for 30 days? good luck with that pal.
It was relevant back in 1957, when it was first stated, and it is relevant now:
Excerpt from the 1957 novel ” Atlas Shrugged ” by Ayn Rand
———————————————————-
” When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – When you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – When you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you – When you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – You may know that your society is doomed. “
I am member of AMA for over 20 years, first in Canada and now in the US. Great Org and I will follow and support whatever AMA would recommend at the end when it comes to FFA related matters.
AMA and its regional local affiliated flying clubs have provided some of the best safety, and full trained flying instructors and guidance to new generation of flyers and provided a healthy hobby for all of us for decades.
Registration of hobby aircrafts it’s a SILLY idea and will not solve any problems if there any problems related with them. Those who like to bend the rules or break the rules will continue to do so, as these cheap drones don’t cost an arm and leg anymore as they used to be. Most likely we will find stray drones with no registration inside them.
I am however disappointed in people who fly quad copters etc. (Not fan of those noisy crickets) in cities, public places, over people houses, uploading videos on YouTube showing their disrespectful behavior, disregard for peoples, properties and valuables.
This hobby has been a great fun for father son get together, father daughter quality time, the individuals and even for the whole family to spend time together and better than iPhone’s and ipads generation kids I see now days. Always give young generation a great way to burn their steam and energy and develop good engineering and avionics skills.
In my opinion or I could be wrong, flying of copters and other drones should be just banned in the cities all together unless someone has a professional license. Allowing licensed pilots to fly in dense cities makes sense to me, but registering every freaking drone and plane is plain STUPID.
I would rather impose people to have AMA member ship as hobbyist. It is more than sufficient at this point. By paying for a membership will automatically make flyers to meet other members, go to designated flying fields and they will get the proper couching and guidance they need from local club members and AMA.
This process has worked for decades and I see no reason because of some idiots, now we all have to pay for their wrong doing, register my planes etc.
Just my 2 cents.
I think it’s going to be a non-starter to mandate membership to operate in taxpayer owned airspace.
‘Twas the week before Christmas, and all through the land,
A new registration system has now tied our hand.
Our shorts in wad are all twisting,
Due to a rule on which the FAA is insisting.
Grown men and women, young girls and boys
Are about to shaken right down to their toys.
This is the year for Christmas drones,
But the FAA is about to squeeze our cahones.
All through the Internet, there arose such a clatter,
I sprang to my computer to look into the matter.
To my surprise, this thing that I own,
My model airplane, is now considered a drone!
Civil and criminal fines in the book,
Register my airplane or become a crook.
It isn’t a drone that I fly in the air,
But the people seem no longer to care.
Make no mistake, all you Tomaters
RC enthusiasts are now aviators!
National Airspace has been redefined, so you knows
To include all the atmosphere right down to your toes.
Our quadcopters, our airplanes, our foamies by name,
Are all now considered one in the same.
Don’t take pictures over our wall!
Just go away, go away, go away all!
To register or not, I asked myself why?
Technically, I have 60 days to comply,
But the local enforcer won’t know that in the least,
When he asks me to show him the mark of the beast.
I tried to comply and pay my money,
But the website thought my credit card was funny.
Others who registered said this thing sucks,
When their names were transposed with some other schmucks!
In case you are wondering, the website is now down,
For site maintenance, they explain with a frown
But don’t worry, it should be ready, they say,
To register your drone on Christmas day.
Thirteen or over, it’s the law now, my boys,
You must register your new flying toys
Just be aware, when your child registers,
His data is public to all sex offenders.
The FAA administrator is a jolly old elf,
I had to laugh in spite of myself.
The way he worded it, I add with a sputter,
You must register anything weighing over two sticks of butter!
It is time to go flying, up to 400 feet in the air,
Please don’t get to close to a sleigh flying there.
Don’t fly over people, and have a safe flight.
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!
Mark Lawry AMA Member
with apologies to Clement Clarke Moore
After a too-quick skim through the above comments, a thought occurs to me…
What services does FAA provide to aeromodellers?
Users of FAA services pay for them. (Most of the rest of us probably through the portion of federal tax revenues that operate the Agency.) Particular licensing, inspections and certifications, etc., may be paid one by each, as they are needed to keep people-carrying and commercial application aviation IN THE FAS safe and functional.
Section 336, printed several times above, specifically exempts model aircraft operations from FAA control, and it is part of a Federal LAW generated and formed by Constitutional process.
The first Article of the US Constitution gives ALL legislative power to the Congress. That is, SOLE Lawmaking power… That should mean that Congress cannot, Constitutionally, surrender law-making authority to ANY OTHER element of our National Government.
Thus, regulations issued by “Regulatory Agencies” cannot have the power of Law. Such an Agency can invite citizens who use their services to make appropriate payment for the services. Those who use the services agree to pay, so that they CAN use those services.
A LAW applies to all, not just to individuals with a reason to request a Departmental service. Section 336 is part of a LAW. FAA’s proposed Rule is not; it wasn’t proposed, debated and passed by Congress, and signed by the President, agreeing to enforce it.
If FAA had services that we aeromodellers want, we should be willing to agree to pay for them if necessary.
We would be more likely agree to that with the FCC, if radio operating licenses were required for use of any part of the electromagnetic spectrum. But that’s a non-starter. As I recall, CB (and similar license-free frequencies at the time) were kept free because Lady Bird Johnson (LBJ’s First Lady) wanted to use CB, and no one had the gonads to charge her or LBJ for the license fee… Might be apocryphal, but it’s a good story…
Let’s face it my fixed wing RC friends; with the technology explosion in UAS systems we now have highly capable off-the-shelf flying machines that on many occasions far exceed the knowledge and experience level of their novice operators. This scares the crap out of government regulators who simply don’t know what to do about the safety risk that is now evident, so they had to react in some way.
The government’s intrusion into our hobby was probably going to happen no matter what the AMA did. Just look at the RC hobbyists use of the national airspace system; it’s merely a pimple on the backside of very large and influential giants (air carriers for one) who must protect their own interests and customers. With the huge growth of UAS we simply don’t have the numbers, or the influence, to protect the fixed wing RC hobby as it has existed in the past.
We can now all see the negative impact from the rapid advances in UAS guidance technology, semi-autonomous operations and aircraft capable of flying to high altitudes in virtually no time. We are also in a world where people can, and will do, really scary and stupid things with what the DOT now officially call “drones”. “Drones”, what a horrible encompassing and insulting word to use to define our foam and covered balsa fixed wing model aircraft just puttering around in a small confined airspace! Until recently they were just “toys”!
I don’t know what else to tell you but to just register when the AMA finally says to do so. The chance of them having any impact on the regulatory momentum that is rapidly accelerating into orbit is possible, but highly unlikely. Best of luck to all my newly DOT registered fellow “drones pilots”!
It is sad to say that the tactic employed by the AMA of all inclusiveness has failed for the majority of it’s members, much like a trail lawyer would have moved to severe the AMA should have split classifications of model aircraft (ie fixed wing, rotor, multi rotor, line of sight, FPV) and secured the freedoms for each respectfully like it or not the justification the FAA has used was easily defeat-able for certain classifications. Like it or not there is a huge difference between a fixed wing 2-lb foamy and a gps flight controlled multi rotor, but because of the all inclusive stance they will all share the same restrictions and this was a great disservice that could have been averted early on. I know the newer Multi-Rotor crowd doesn’t want to hear this but facts are facts line of site fixed wing and even rotor craft have never been the concern but now we all will share the burden. And before some one else post’s some fixed wing dinosaur crap I too fly rotor and multi-rotor but I will not deny the obvious, it would have been nice to have a non regulated fall back RC experience instead of what we have been handed.
Maybe the FAA AND DOT will work with the AMA in procuring new flying sites, and educating those interested in model aircraft building and flying. As for A $5000.00 FINE YOU MISTER 777 CAN AFFORD IT , BUT TRY IT FROM BEHIND BARS.
So, how long are we “waiting”? Is there movement on this and is AMA going to update status and stance? Too bad this is taking place over the holiday season, but I doubt the FAA cares.
Just finished reading the entire law. I think everyone should read the part about The Office of Whistle Blowers.
If I am correct, the new rule requires registration of model aircraft between the weights of .55 and 55 pounds. Does this include ALL types of model aircraft?? Sailplanes, free-flights, rubber powered (yes, some do weigh more than 8.8oz’s)or is this strictly aimed at the radio controlled type?? Also, how would you control the ones that purchase systems from over-seas? I agree that drones, or multi-rotor vehicles, are becoming an issue. Some have the ability to be sent to a specific GPS and return sight unseen by the controller. These are the ones that need to be controlled, or if required, registered. Most all of the models that we fly, say 99.8 percent or so, require line-of-sight, meaning that if it gets more than 400 feet or so away, you can’t see what the model is doing usually resulting in a crash. I agree with Jason. Leave it in the hands of the AMA or local law enforcement. We also need to police ourselves. If we, as R/C flyers, see someone doing something wrong or endangering people, we need to be diplomatic and inform said people of the problem. This is a GREAT hobby and I for one would hate to see it destroyed by government regulations that are created because a few people are being stupid, meaning the ones flying inappropriately. May we have clear skies and gentle breezes.
“The Council is considering all legal and political remedies to address this issue.”
“AMA to complete ongoing conversations with the FAA about how best to streamline the registration process for our members.”
Any updates on the above statements?
I am not certain what we are so worked up about. As an AMA member, I appreciate the voice, but I am not certain I follow the concerns regarding registration. I went to the FAA site and registered using a very streamlined process and got my number in under 5 minutes. So, I will now have an AMA number and an FAA number on my quadcopters. The state and feds have my name, social and address for any number of reasons (automobiles, mopeds, insurance, taxes, etc.) so I am already vulnerable to an over-reaching federal government BUT, I do not see registration with the FAA as over-reaching. None of my models will ever be a part of injury of innocents or invasion of privacy and so I have no problem letting everyone know that I fly within my local community standards and the standards established by those who control our airspace. Now, if this will simply be used to prevent hobbyists to fly in our airspace and encourage amazon or other businesses to take it over…..well then, I understand. But I simply do not see the registration process as an issue. This year was the first year I had to register my moped with the state…..too many no licensed drivers and unregistered people creating problems. Seems like too many conspiracy theorists are venting their paranoia. Am I missing something?
If we are required to register our models that weigh between .55 and 55 pounds, will that also require us to register sailplanes, gliders, free-flight, rubber-powered models (yes some do weigh more than .55 pounds or 8.8ozs). Most of the models we fly, probably 99.9 percent or so, require line-of-sight, meaning that if you get much more that 400-500 feet away it can get hard to see. I believe that most of the problem is stemming from those few people that are using multi-rotor, or drones, and operating in an unsafe manner, i.e. around airports and such. I also agree with Jason that it needs to be left in the hands of the AMA and local authorities. We also need to police ourselves. If we see someone doing something dangerous or inappropriate, we need to diplomatically address the situation. If this fails get the local P.D. involved. AMA requires that your name, address, phone number and AMA number be located on or in all of our models. It also states that we do NOT fly within 5 miles of a controlled airport. This has been my hobby for well over 50 years and I would hate to see it destroyed.
The FAA is responding to more-or-less legit safety concerns about drones so I’m not sure it helps AMA’s image to call for civil disobedience on this issue.
However, I do have concerns!
I just signed up for the new FAA “unmanned aircraft systems” (UAS) registration and it requires you to agree to among other pretty reasonable things a “safety guideline” of flying under 400 feet.
I have telemetry in my sailplanes so I know pretty much exactly how high I am at any given time, and I generally consider a day of flying where I never get above 400 feet to be a very bad soaring day!
This FAA policy seems to be saying that rc soaring is inherently not safe, which surprises me and has me worried about the future of this hobby!
I wonder if the AMA is working on resolving the potential impact of this new policy specifically on rc soaring?
This issue is featured on the front page of the Dec. 23rd Orlando (Florida) Sentinel “Model-plane pilots rip FAA rules sparked by drone use”.
If you feel motivated to do something about this issue – your best action is to write a letter to your US Congressman and Senator. Don’t just send an email, don’t just sign a petition, don’t just sit back and let the AMA leadership carry the ball – a brief letter in your own words is much more effective. Let your voice be heard! The important fact is that the FAA reports only to Congress, and has a long track record of ignoring public comment. On the other hand, your elected officials are much more attuned to what their constituents are thinking – because if they ignore their voters, they’ll be out of a job at the next election. While AMA’s court action is proper and commendable, it might take years to resolve…so write your letters NOW while you’re steamed up about the situation, and be sure to mention that the FAA is acting is defiance of Congress’s mandate embodied in Public Law 112-95 of February 14, 2012, specifically Sec. 336, provisions (a), (a)(1),(a)(2) and (a)(3)
For many years the FAA has played ‘power grab’ trying to gain more control to justify the existence of their own bureaucracy. I am especially annoyed that I have to divert my efforts away from enjoying my hobby towards ‘politics’ but if we don’t act together now, the FAA wins by default.
We must realize that the hundreds of thousands of model aviation hobbyists are a significant nationwide force that our Congress must reckon with. Make the politicians in Washington wake up to address this issue in a fair way and get the FAA off our backs!
Precisely what I’ve been getting at, Jim, and what we members ought to do individually and through the AMA as a group. The FAA has a very long history of using John Q. Public’s fear, fed by media hysteria, to grossly overstep its authority, as is the case here. Well spake, sir! A well informed (and properly admonished) CONGRESS is the correct tool with which to redress this blatant disregard for the law, previously established by the PROPER authority, in 2012. We are already behind the ball, as the new law is already in the federal register. “This thing will be over in TWO minutes, Maverick; GET ON IT!”
Here is the next thing to come to restrict our hobby.
1) Manually operated RC should be it’s own classification != Drone.
2) Denying airspace to drone’s & RC is not hard to jam/block/attack signals, there should be an exception put in for airports and any group that want’s one to block off their range from RC/Drones. I’ve been working on a side project SDR based frequency hopping lock on to DSMX that is fairly trivial to inject and dronejack anything based on that protocol. The government not having even the most basic signal jamming capability around their locations seems temporary (it’s got to be coming). There you go problem solved. (of course do the same thing with GPS, sorry if your driving through D.C. you might get a bit lost or wind up in a ghetto of a neighboring city. Sure there is inertial guidance but that’s way less accurate.
3) Pretty obviously a cash grab move by the FAA.
FAA has already proven it can’t adequetly manage this task. I registered on the first day. Simple and straight forward, although I have issue with having to use a credit card (for security reasons). But what about younger medellers with no credit. And now the messed up part. My Dad went to register today and the requirements have already changed. You must enter Drone Name, Manufacturer, etc. why are they calling them Drones ? I thought we were registering RC aircraft. Does my Dad have to list all 20 of his aircraft now and list all there names and manufacturers ? The assumption that all RC aircraft are RTF and purchased rather than built from parts is very ignorant on the Governments part. They also added a line of site requirement that wasn’t in the registration contract that I signed ? Whoops Didn’t sign anything and didn’t get a copy of what the terms of my registration are. You can be flying legally today based on what you were told and arrested tomorrow for a new condition,law or requirement made up the very next day?
I have been building and flying model airplanes since I was eight years old, I’m now 67. Everything I have accomplished in life including owning several businesses was made possible from what I learned participating in this wonderful hobby.
But all good things must come to an end. The hobby has turned into a political football and a money machine for the government, FAA and the AMA.
Airspace and plenty of it is needed for the commercial aspect of Drone technology leaving little or no room for anything else. It will mean millions if not billions of dollars to feed the coffers of our elitist government officials. It’s the greatest money scam since the IRS.
Same thing almost happened to RC channels when the cell phone became the big thing. Well, I am not buying into it nor will I pay one cent for the so called privilege of practicing the hobby .
The FAA can find someone else to line their pockets. I ‘m putting it all up for sale and moving on to something I can enjoy without being subjected to government extortion. So, good luck and goodby AMA, it’s all about the money folks.
Morris – PLEASE don’t quit on us ! We need people like you ( the long timers ). Throwing up your hands is not the answer nor the American / Canadian way. However fighting for our rights is. Remember the words – ‘ DON’T TREAD ON ME ‘. If WE collectively don’t stand up for our rights, it’s not going to stop here; they will find other things to eat-away at. Morris – PLEASE reconsider and stay with us. At least stay for the younger generation who need guidance from people such as yourself. It would be an absolute shame that these younger folks miss-out on such an EDUCATIONAL, MIND STIMULATING, and CAREER BUILDING hobby such as this.
I have no problem with this. What ever it takes to keep on flying. I am not about to give up flying planes and helicopters, and quads over this. To me this is not a big deal. I will give it a whatever.
Thanks Tom for hanging in there with us ! The BRAVE will ENDURE and OVERCOME. Remember the famous words in the song by Pete Seeger – ” We Shall Overcome ” and also by Joan Baez – ” We shall overcome ” . Keep the flame alive !
Although I do support the AMA’s stand on this issue, I am hold off on my renewal to the AMA. If, undo requirements and sanctions are going to be pressed upon me to practice my hobby, then, perhaps it’s time for another hobby.
Regardless of the fact that they’ll “win”. I see no reason to “donate” to an organization that can’t seem to convince the government of our excellent record of self policing and our outstanding safety record.
I’m watching with interest, but, am investing NO MONIES in this hobby until this is resolved.
My 2 cents…
AMA #882611 current member paid thru 2020 flying season. I will standby the AMA till they tell us which way to go on this messed up registration deal. I fly only LOS aircraft at this time Planes and Helicopters from UMX to 30% for the past 16 or so years . Sad to see that a few bad apples can cause this much hassle and trouble for all of us safety minded pilots . I really do not see how this registration will fix the issue because those who are the issue will not be part of the registration anyway !! We must stand together with the AMA or we may lose our hobby all together.
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED AND BUILDING MODELS SOME FLY SOME DON’T. I’M NOW RETIRED 70 YEARS OLD AND STARTED TO REALLY GET INVOLVED IN RC. I HAVE PURCHASED SEVERAL MODELS AND BUILT THEM AND TO BE HONEST HAVE FLOWN VERY FEW, I ENJOY THE BUILD PROCESS. I HAVE THREE GRANDSONS AND INTERESTED THEM ENOUGH TO GET THEM INVOLVED. I WAS ABOUT TO JOIN THE AMA UNTIL THIS LAW TOOK AFFECT. IT WAS MY OPINION THAT WITH THE AMA PART OF THE “TASK FORCE” COMMON SENSE WOULD PREVAIL BUT FROM WHAT I’VE READ THE FAA SHOWED TOTAL DISREGARD TO THE AMA. LAW ABIDING AMERICANS HAVE LOST THEIR VOICE AND LOST REPRESENTATION FOR THEM. LOOK HOW FAST A VERY STUPID LAW WAS GENERATED TO DEAL WITH RC TOYS AND THAT IS WHAT WE FLY TOYS AND LOOK HOW THEY HOW HANDLE UNVETTED IMMIGRATION? I HAVE BEEN IN ENFORCEMENT FOR 25 YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU NOW THE BAD GUYS WILL DO BAD NO MATTER WHAT! THEY ARE GOING TO REGISTER THEIR AIRCRAFT JUST LIKE THEY REGISTER THEIR GUNS – THEY DON’T! EXAMPLES WILL BE MADE OF SOME POOR JERK FLYING HIS NEW RC WITH HIS KID IN SOME EMPTY SOCCER FIELD BY SOME OVER ZEALOUS COP WHO DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THE LAW READS. IF ONE OF OUR AIRCRAFT WERE EVER TO ENTER THE INTAKE OF A JET TURBINE NOTHING WILL BE LEGIBLE TO IDENTIFY. AS YOU ALREADY KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN MORE DANGER TO COMMERCIAL AND GENERAL AVIATION BY SOMEONE FIRING A LASER BEAM AT AN AIRCRAFT. LETS HOPE THAT SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE, SOME AGENCY WILL PUT A STOP TO THIS AND WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO ENJOYING OUR HOBBY OF FLYING BIG BOY TOYS. AT THIS RATE NEXT CHRISTMAS WE WILL ALL HAVE TO ADDRESS EACH OTHER AS “COMRADE”. LETS HOPE FOR THE BEST AND A POWERFUL ADVOCATE.
you don’t get it !!!! you don’t fly at soccer fields and schools only at AMA fields with AMA insurance the FAA has made AMA the CBO (community based organization ) and we fly with their guide lines and safety code whew
LEE, MAYBE I DON’T GET IT OR MAYBE YOU DON’T GET IT? IF THE AMA WAS THE ANSWER AS YOU’VE SO SIMPLIFIED YOUR POST THIS BLOG WOULDN’T BE UP AND RUNNING. MAYBE AN AMA FIELD ISN’T THAT EASY FOR SOME TO REACH FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS? I’VE BEEN TO AMA FIELDS WITH A COUPLE FRIENDS WHO ARE MEMBERS AN I GOT TO TELL YOU SOME OF YOUR MEMBERS ARE NOT THAT WELCOMING. TO CALL THEM “GRUMPY OLD MEN” WELL THAT WOULD BE KIND. THE LOOK YOU GET FROM SOME COULD MELT KRYPTONITE AND I WAS JUST THERE WATCHING. I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW A GUY LIKE YOU MIGHT REACT IF SOME DAD WITH HIS TWO YOUNG KIDS OPENED A BOX CONTAINING AN AIR HOG PLANE AND STARTED TO TRY AND FLY IT WHILE YOU HAD YOUR 500 HOUR BUILD “THUNDERBOLT” IN THE AIR? WOULD YOU WELCOME THEM OR GO INTO A TIRADE ABOUT MEMBERSHIP IN THE AMA? SO YOU SEE MAYBE THE OLD SOCCER FIELD MIGHT NOT BE THAT BAD, I’M NOT SURE. MANY AN AMA MEMBER STARTED RIGHT THERE AT THE OLD SOCCER FIELD.
THE PROBLEM AT HAND ISN’T MEMBERSHIP IN THE AMA AND ALL THE BENEFITS OF MEMBERSHIP. YOUR A MEMBER AND THAT HASN’T RESOLVED “JACK-SNOT” BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS GOVERNMENT’S OVERREACTION, MAYBE OVERREACH, FAILURE TO IDENTIFY THE NEED OF THIS REQUIREMENT AND HOW THIS REQUIREMENT IS GOING TO RELIEVE THE PROBLEM. YOU SEE LEE I LIKE FREEDOM, DAM I OUTRIGHT LOVE FREEDOM AND I HATE WHEN GOVERNMENT OVERREACTS AND OVERREACHES. IF I WANT TO FLY MY MODEL AT THE SOCCER FIELD OR PARK FLY OR ON MY 20 ACRE BACKYARD OR AMA FIELD AND WITHIN THE SAFE LIMITS GIVEN, WELL THAT’S WHAT I’M GOING TO DO. I LIKE MANY MEMBERS HERE FOUGHT FOR THE NATIONS FREEDOM AT LEAST I HOPE THAT’S WHAT I WAS DOING. SO LEE LET’S ALL HERE GATHER WITH A REASONABLE PLAN FOR ALL FLYERS AIRPLANES, HELO’S, QUADS, WASHING MACHINES WHATEVER TO PRESERVE OUR FREEDOM TO FLY AS WE WISH IN A SAFE MANNER. IF SAFE IS WHAT THE FAA IS REALLY LOOKING TO ACCOMPLISH????
Phillip – DON’T get discouraged ! Do what you like or do best in this hobby – that’s what it is all about. And remember … The BRAVE will ENDURE and OVERCOME. Remember the famous words in the song by Pete Seeger – ” We Shall Overcome ” and also by Joan Baez – ” We shall overcome ” . Keep the flame alive !
THANK YOU FOR THE ENCOURAGEMENT I WILL ABSOLUTELY STAY WITH THE HOBBY.
THANKS AGAIN.
Feb. 21 the 30 day free reg. will have passed. If the AMA efforts fail will we have to pay the $5.oo ? Wishing all goes in our favor. You all do a great job.
I fully support the AMA position on the topic of registration. Another part of the FAA’s plan for model airplanes is the 400 ft AGL limit. A quick look through AMA records for sailplanes shows that practically every one exceeds 400 ft and one was over 7,000 ft! For R/C aerobatics the “box” at 60 degrees left x 60 degrees right x 60 degrees above horizontal at a pattern line 150 – 175 meters yields a max “box” altitude of 852 – 994 feet. Are some competitions including the NATS as we know them dead? What about the rest of the hobby?
Thoughts?
Sure is a lot of hate being expressed here. Hope we don’t bring this type of talk to the flying fields. If we feel this way about our elected representatives no wonder so many foreigners dislike us. After all, our gov reps were elected by the people. The FAA does not make laws, they follow directions of Congress. I have been an AMA member for 40 years and I registered with the FAA the first day. Tower Hobbies has more information on me that the FAA does. My info from ordering on the internet is probably more vunerable that what I gave the FAA. I understand that the skys are changing because of technology. Gone are the days where most model flying was from AMA airfields and by trained RC pilots. Now we are faced with a sky filled with who knows what in the future and it must be kept as safe as possible for everyone. Maybe the first set of rules are not perfect but acting like the FAA only wants to take away rights is nonproductive. They are not the enemy and did not create the problems we all are trying to deal with.
As a followup to my earlier comment, I do not want to put my flying field in jeopardy. I know that many AMA fields are on public land or leased from various types of entities. They are at risk if not in compliance with Federal law. If the AMA does not get what it wants I can only imagine what will be said on the blogs when registration is a requirement to join the AMA.
You can blame the idiots who just buy the quad copters (they are not drones) and just think it is neat to fly them where ever and when ever they want without any regard to anyone’s safety. Most of those who do this have never had anything to do with rc aircraft before and have no concept or desire to follow any rules.
We can also blame the media for being so ignorant about any of this to the point that they just blanket everyone who flies rc aircraft into the group mentioned above.
So now with the help of the media’s hype we have the FAA making up their own rules and calling them law.
So why stop there. Pressure cookers where used as bombs so why not make everyone how owns a pressure cooker register with the government?
And while we are at it, all cell phones have cameras that can take pictures and videos and thus violate the public’s right to privacy so we should defiantly make everyone who owns a cell phone register it with the government.
The point is we could go on and on finding reasons why just about everything you own or everything you do should require that you register with the government.
In reality it is all stupid and just a government agency’s knee jerk reaction to media hype.
I used to be an AMA member that flew rc fixed wing and rc helicopters for decades. I was thinking of joining up again to support an organization that supports my hobby as I was also thinking about getting back into it and flying on our 185 acre farm miles from anyone but if I have to deal with the feds just to have some fun on our own property then I may just rethink the whole thing.
The AMA has aligned us and made us responsible for a group of flyers that will never be part of the AMA. If you are willing to fly your drone according to the AMA safety code fine, your not the problem. However, that is not what I have seen with drone flying. The very nature of quad flying is exploration of hard to reach prohibited areas.
Like the drone hitting the Capital Building in Albany NY. (https://news10.com/2015/10/07/adam-rupeka-arrested-for-allegedly-crashing-drone-into-capitol/ ) October 7 2015.
The majority of drone users(Camera,GPS,FPV) are not content with line of sight flying.
The small quad-copters non-camera, non-GPS or simple flight stabilization, (they sell them in 7/11)
will end up in the scrap heap in short order. Not to say they can’t do
damage perceptually as well as physically. However the drone groups advocating
unrestricted flight can never become part of the AMA. The AMA safety
code prohibit such flights. Isn’t it interesting that DJI the large Chinese Drone Manufacturer (https://www.economist.com/news/business/21647981-chinese-firm-has-taken-lead-promising-market-up) has offered to underwrite drone insurance. Their actuaries probably computed the risk/reward and figured it would improve sales. About 5 billion by 2021.
I personally know, too many AMA members that fly drones around heavy full scale aircraft areas. Near Laguardia airport, from parks on Long Island Sound in New Rochelle NY. Do they think they’re covered by AMA.
Drone flying at an AMA field in the flight pattern, or Drone racing FPV or line of sight ,must
occur at an AMA field for our AMA insurance to be in effect.
The AMA Park Flier program has circumvented this, and opened Pandora’s Box of problems. This has encouraged people to fly where ever they want to. The people I know, who fly drones get a huge kick out of sending their drones and cameras out on a programmed flight course, out of line of sight, taking beautiful pictures, then boring their fellow fliers with these pictures.
We got two big problems the general drone flying public, who the AMA has made us responsible for, and these obstinate AMA fliers who believe it is their RIGHT to fly unrestricted over people and property. Municipalities have already restricted such flights. I have been at AMA events like IRCHA and had video drones over my head, I didn’t feel too comfortable.
I wonder if one of these renegade drone fliers would like it if a drone flew over their children at a park.
Yet, Bob Brown our President of the AMA in his most recent Presidents
perspective in January 2016 issue, says, he is hopeful that more retailers like Best Buy will purchase AMA
membership for “qualified buyers of the products (drone) they sell. The problem isn’t bad enough Bob you want to add fuel (30% Nitro) to the fire. But good O’le Bob says; it can all be cure by education, this is Bob’s cover story. Well, the story is either greed or stupidity, in either case it is not the position for a president of a national organization to take.
He further states, “you can help by allowing these new pilots a safe place to fly and helping to introduce them into our great hobby.”
Well Bob, most of these general public wouldn’t give a squirt of piss for the AMA membership. Neither do they want to find an AMA field to limit their flying. The AMA has put us in this situation A few safe places still exist, but may not exist much longer if this
FAA registration goes through. Yeah, I know it’s only $5 bucks, the slouches of this hobby say, and of course the AMA has all our information already and would gladly provide it to the FAA anyway.
Hey I got some rope in my garage, for my own hanging but I won’t run to provide it to the hangman.
Usually, a person wanting to learn to fly, will venture to a club, introduce themselves, purchase AMA and begin a learning phase of flying, this still could happen, but is highly unlikely to, for the majority of drone purchases.
President Brown has short circuited the filtering process that occurs at most clubs. Not all people who WANT to fly, SHOULD FLY. Some lack the ability, maturity or both. The unqualified, unsafe and uncooperative are generally not granted permission to fly by the club. We all had to jump through many hoops to EARN permission to fly. Now any jerk with a credit card and two thumbs is qualified for an AMA membership. We are grouped with the largely unknown general public and the renegade AMA fliers.
How would you feel if a General Motors, and Ford, decided to provide free
insurance, from your insurance companies, to unlicensed individuals , seeking a learners permit to drive? Gee, I thought you got the permit
and experience under the watchful eye of an instructor before you took the car on the road.
Your insurance premiums would sky rocket in this scenario due to increasing claims of liability. The law makers would be compelled of course, to legislate against all drivers since we would all be mixed together.
This is what our AMA has done to us, with their programs and policies.
The AMA as a provider of insurance has violated their fiduciary responsibility to it’s current members in its’ pursuit of future members. That breach of responsibility is an actionable offense.
The AMA and its’ board needs to be put on noticed by the current membership that we ain’t buying their line of bull. Their move to sue the FAA only came after many emailed the hell out of the AMA. More is needed.
This is my guess on how the deal was structured between AMA and Retailer/Manufacturers.
These AMA retail memberships are, I would imagine, not paid for on a by purchase basis. The paperwork would be staggering, for the retailers and the AMA. The manufacturers, knew they were going to have trouble with the sale/use of these drones, so they needed a front man, the AMA, volunteered to take the heat for all the problems that would arise, in exchange for $membership dollars. The AMA wanted the money from all the new members , so under the guise of embracing technology and educating people about the joys of flying, the AMA threw us, their current members under the bus.
The retailers and the “some manufacturers have probably made a lump sum payment to the AMA that could be applied to new members. The AMA will use that $Money for Washington Lobbyists,salaries, and expense accounts.
Do you like how the lobbyists have lobbied for your hobby?
Plain and simple – if the renegades out there do not want to join and conform to the AMA’s now 80-years of safe flying rules and regulations then so be it. Therefore they are then subjecting themselves to what the FAA now has in place for them with their registration process. For the rest of us who are AMA members and those enticed to join our ranks, then we will continue to abide by the PROVEN safe flying rules and regulations the AMA has set forth for us.
There is nothing wrong with multi rotors. Helicopter Bi-copter, tri-copter, quad-copter, kids toys with 30 meter range. Most are lighter than our aircraft. I see 300 MPH RC jets crash on youtube all the time. Lets not single out a group to feel better. Oh yea lets not forget the rocket hobbyist and people with hi power lasers.
Lets not forget ham radio operators!! Its dangerous out there!!
I see the AMA trying to make itself a Junior FAA.
I think dangerous stuff needs to be registered and controlled but by who and what are the limits?
Fact – even water is dangerous if you drink too much of it. So where and when does the INSANITY end !
Oh yeah I am registering with the FAA caus I want to take responsibilities for my actions.
I wonder if anyone at AMA was watching the new tonite…the NTSB has found that faulty
fuel tanks in hundreds if not thousands of scale helicopters have caused fires and crashes. These same fuel tanks have been know to FAA, since some of these tanks were
manufactured over thirty years ago without change and now the FAA is ok with the newer
tanks in helicopters. These accidents waiting to happen are over our heads in Police,
Fire Dept. and air ambulances !! Who in hell is running FAA ?? They want to through
rocks at us for potential air accidents, when they are already having accidents with
damage and loss of life involved. A potential MAYBE…or REAL FACTS !! One should
NOT through rocks at glass houses. Now that the above has been made public…the families will be awarding the FAA with a class action suit, I am sure….!
” Who in hell is running FAA ?? ” … good question. Perhaps you should start by asking California senator Dianne Feinstein and New York senator Charles ( Chuck ) Schumer.
It was relevant back in 1957 when it was first stated and it is relevant now:
Excerpt from the 1957 novel ” Atlas Shrugged ” by Ayn Rand
———————————————————-
” When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing – When you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors – When you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you – When you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice – You may know that your society is doomed. “
I don’t see any problem with the registering of our aircraft , if it stops the idiots flying in parks towns ball fields , schools etc .. I have already registered . I have been flying off and on since 1980 , I now fly IMAC and love this hobby I don’t blame AMA one bit it is hard to police the hobby shops that tell them they can go right out and fly , when I got my first sig cadet in 1981 the LHS told me I should join AMA as I did , too many shops selling our products are not telling the people about AMA , you should be required to fly at AMA fields under AMA safety rules and insurance , it seems as if the people flying drones and foamies think they can fly where they want , as for me I chose to register not rebelling against you AMA but hoping for a end to the stupid idiotic flying pranks we don’t need connected with our hobby, the best thing would be is AMA cut the drones to their own then faa could shut them down just my 2 cents worth , I will always be with you guys AMA
Lee Lindsey
AMA 807994
204 Bayside Dr
Warmer Robins , GA 31088
Lee, i agree with your comments, except that registration will NOT keep the miscreants from causing problems. I also have been a member since ’81-i am a park pilot member and i have safely flown foamys in a local park annex for the past 10 years. i reserve my flying until ball playing activities have ended or i dont fly there. Try as they might, the government cant legislate common sense, and in attempting to do so, normally trample all over our libertys. I dont like “shotgun surgery” when a sharp scalpel is needed. This mandate was rolled out before Christmas just for media purposes and self promotion. All this just dont set well with me.
GEEZ LEE, YOU SEEM LIKE A WARM, HAPPY AND FRIENDLY MEMBER OF THE AMA, JUST THE KIND OF GUY PARENTS WANT THEIR KID TO BE AROUND TO LEARN AND ENJOY THE HOBBY. YOUR GOING TO CONVINCE A LOT OF “IDIOTS FLYING IN THE PARK” AND “STUPID IDIOTS FLYING” TO JOIN WITH YOU IN THE AMA. 2 CENT WORTH I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT THE OTHER 98 CENTS IS LIKE.
This has probably been said (I haven’t read all the comments), but AMA should emphasize to the FAA, that when the FAA lumps responsible flyers (aka AMA members), regardless of what they fly–be it fixed wing, quadcopters, etc., with the ‘rogue drone’ pilots, or what I call ‘Christmas toy pilots’, that the press and public believe all of us to be endangering the National Airspace and the public, and that this belief will result in the creation of local legislation that will limit or even kill our hobby. I’m quite happy to put my AMA # in or on my a/c as proof of ‘registration’.
Also, AMA needs to work at getting the FAA to remove the 400 ft altitude limit–otherwise it will seriously hamper us RC sailplane pilots. After all, that altitude is below our typical launch altitude.
Everyone should carefully read the FAA’s Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft for their justification in regulating model aircraft, located at <A HREF="https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/model_aircraft_spec_rule.pdf
There are many websites that provide the contact information for your US Congressmen – one good one is <A HREF="https://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/ or do a Google search for “contact your congressman”
Write your letters to your Congressmen today!!
A few more comments.
I watched a video on YouTube that interviewed Rich Hanson of the AMA. It is obvious from the comments in this video that the AMA has no desire to stop the FAA from requiring registration. Watch it and then you decide who’s side the AMA is on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9isLNQLPY
And while watching that video I noticed that in reality the FAA registration is not about registering your model aircraft but about registering you. In the Q&A it states that you register once and then use your number on all your rc aircraft.
Also you will be required to renew your registration every 3 years.
I have no problem with the actual concept of the registration but I do have a problem with the FAA stating it will soon make that information searchable by anyone and thus making my name, address, email and registration number public info to anyone that want to get it.
I also have a problem with the fact that the FAA registration does not require you have insurance. They state this whole thing is to make it safe for everyone but they do not require any insurance or any training.
At this point supporting the AMA is not going to help in getting this repealed. The only thing that will is is every rc pilot out there contacts their congressman and tell them to stop this BS in its tracks. Be sure and let them know how many votes that can get from rc pilots if they stomp the FAA into the ground on this.
Thanks for the video post. It is evident that the AMA supports registration and their only concern is the size of the aircraft that need to be registered. In my humble opinion the AMA did not listen to their members first about their concerns.
The lack of any AMA updates regarding the protest of the registration is concerning. It now appears that in a month the AMA will say ‘Sorry we did all we could’ and we will be told to go ahead and register.
Contacting members of Congress appears the best way to try to put a stop to this ridiculous registration and intrusion by the FAA. A searchable database will place all us well meaning and safe hobbyists on a possible terrorist watch list.
Lee – you registered and now you are restricted to 400-feet AGL flying whether you are within 3-miles of an airport or 5-miles of an airport or out even further than that. Also your information is now public information. If you can live with that, fine. For the rest of us AMA members, we’ll stand with AMA’s fight against FAA oppression.
If the new rule is contrary to the intent of Congress in Section 336 of the 2012 FAA Modernization and Reform Act, also referred to as the “Special Rule for Model Aircraft,” and clearly prohibits the FAA from promulgating any new rules for recreational users operating within the safety guidelines of a CBO, then why doesn’t the AMA Executive Council put some pressure on Congress to call the FAA Administrator, Michael Huerta, to the table and tell him that.
That would be far more productive than asking the AMA membership to submit comments to the FAA that Mr. Huerta will never see. All he sees now is reports from his subordinates on how well the program is going. It’s a different story when the “Higher Ups” (Congress) tell Mr. Huerta what they really meant. When the “Stuff” runs downhill it gets more attention.
It’s because, according to the FAA, they are following an OLD rule requiring all aircraft to be registered. This NEW rule is only to have a web based registration instead of the old paper registration that they would love to force us to do.
So they think it’s not a new rule. Thank Congress for not being thorough enough to not include the new rule part and just say it’s exempt.
The current situation is that AMA is supposed to have pending litigation on the definition of AIRCRAFT to see if MA fits the bill.
I would rather see this whole registration of MA struck down by Congress because they rushed it and didn’t follow proper procedures.
Want to complain? Sign the petitions.
There’s one on change.org which only has 360 left and there’s this one that only has 35 signed. NEED MORE!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/investigate-legality-faas-new-drone-registration-program-light-sec-336-hr658
DEAR AMA,
WILL YOU PLEASE SET UP YOUR BLOG TO DISPLAY THE LATEST POSTS AT THE TOP SO FOLKS CAN GET THE LATEST UPDATES ON THIS ISSUE?
THANK YOU
Is the AMA fileing a legal instrument to temporarily stop the rule or not? I sent an e-mail to my congress and senate person from day one.
How we got to be here.
A Balsa wood modeler for 50+ years. We’ve witnessed the last several years Model Aviation articles covering EXTREME freestyle RC competition. Featuring non-modeler “pilots” PAID by Sponsor giant scale manufacturers, presented like NASCAR athletes complete with sponsor logo uniforms. Consider for example, golfers do not make their own clubs.
Extreme Performance Sport spawned a rah-rah competition mentality corrupting, deteriorating, and trivializing craftsmanship HOBBY to sport. EXTREME sport is the culture that allowed segue to drones. Would be more appropriate for drones to be covered by Sports Illustrated!
MA advertisers, Tower etc. found multirotor toys profitable. And so it goes.
Multirotor toys are not model airplanes. Those are just as related as roller coasters are to Amtrak.
So yea, it does run downhill.
The FAA is in a massive CYA program here folks! They don’t want an airliner on approach splashed all over Newark due to a drone—either accident or due to terrorism. So they panic and over-react…as governments do. I would recommend a $10K fine for deliberate misuse of any rc aerial platform AND a $20K REWARD for reporting misuse. All the hot-shot rogue pilots “might think twice” and there would be eyes searching the skies for a drone being misused and the “easy money” in reporting it. Even the “hard-core bad guys” will find it hard to fly above 50ft without being seen.
(As we proceed with this process, we suggest AMA members hold off on registering their model aircraft with the FAA until advised by the AMA or until February 19, the FAA’s legal deadline for registering.)
After this date is the AMA going to request proof from AMA members that they have registered with the FAA by providing their registration number to the AMA?
And if they have not registered are they going to be in violation of some new AMA rule.
“I’m tired of being lumped in with any irresponsible pilot of any aircraft, UAS, period.”
Sharing air is the only commonality with traditional AMA modeling multirotors have. Yes, some are “built” by AMA enthusiasts/competitors. Millions are fad trend “toys” bought by folks unaware of AMA. AMA modelers are subject to the NEWS media slang “drone” mindset, effectively “dumbing-down” the public about ALL Model Airplanes. For sure it is complicated. Too bad AMA has to deal with it. We need assurance that AMA is giving it’s model builder base priority because we are AMA’s foundation after the dust settles.
AMA = ACADEMY OF MODEL AERONAUTICS = AERONAUTICS DEFINED: “a science dealing with the building and flying of aircraft”, in this case models not full size craft. If that is what the AMA is about than why are there so many trying to narrowly define what the AMA is all about? If that is not what the AMA is about than why not call it the Academy of Model Fixed Wing Aircraft Only? Are Quad-copters the real problem? I’m finding it difficult to believe that and you should as well? As a member previously posted there is video of model jet and multi engine piston engine powered by extremely volatile fuel exploding in balls of flames pose a greater danger than a 1-lb battery powered plastic quad-copter. I’ll bet that one of those jets traveling at the speed they do can easily pierce the skin of most aircraft? Maybe just maybe the FAA saw some of these videos? For the record I’m not against jets, pistons or any other source of power.
Now I’m not a quad-copter pilot I’m just observing what I’m reading here. Many of these nontraditional craft and pilots are responsible for so many innovations the fixed wing pilot uses to make their hobby more enjoyable. Open Source Transmitters with downloadable programs, smaller and more reliable receivers, lighter servo’s, telemetry, OSD, FPV and the list goes on. What’s wrong with being able to see what you altitude and distance from your start point? You can gaurantee that your below 400′ and within the specified boundaries. It’s about innovation, progress and science you may not like it but these are the young guys and gals who will be the future of the AMA. Don’t alienate them, you fly fixed wing they enjoy the future. Wait until the Coanda Effect gains more legs.
I find it hard to believe that the FAA will soften its position. Todays government breaks the rules in fact sometimes break the very laws they are governed by – the Constitution. Lets hope for the freedom in the hobby that each of us enjoy.
I, too, do not want to have to register and be bound by the outsized rules that govern full-scale flight. However, I am guessing that what the FAA is trying to do is prevent someone, perhaps even after joining AMA, from loading up a model with C4 or poison gas and flying it into a crowd, etc. Even more likely, as someone has said, is to keep it from crashing an airliner. I know I would not like to be on said airliner. After reading over quite a few comments, I see there are few solutions offered. Perhaps if we put out heads together, we can come up with some. It might be off the wall, but is there any way to create an “electronic box” to fly within? If an aircraft encountered the side, the rudder and elevator (or equivalent on quads) would take extreme positions sending the model back into the box? If this could be done, many more flying sites could and, I think, would be created. Where I live, there are very few fields and they are at least 25 minutes away, one way, and, with development, even these will be gone in a few years. Perhaps another way would be to mandate triple liability for any damages caused by model aircraft if flown outside approved sites. Damage to an airliner engine would probably have a fee stiff enough to discourage flights near full scale aircraft. Any deaths caused would be vehicular manslaughter. For fields that are well outside populated areas (30 miles, for example?) flying could be essentially free, line of sight, though still with the AMA guideline to avoid full-sized aircraft. More ideas?
The problems with the FAA will worsen. By the time the media and the FAA are done with our loved hobby there will be little left. We have lost sight of what caused this it’s not model planes, helicopters or multi rotor aircraft its first person view and the one rule that is not enforced or followed. Fly line of sight only. this simple rule is the problem this is what needs to be addressed and no one seems to want to admit it. I am not anti fpv as a matter of fact i love it and use it but this mode of flight needs a closer look such as a FAA license that requires a simple regulation test. the FAA and AMA both need to wake up and address the real problems.
THANK YOU!!!! I have been saying this since all this started. The whole FPV thing is completely against safety regulations. Last I heard we are supposed to have a clear view of the aircraft at all times & you cannot do that if you are staring at a monitor or wearing those FPV goggles.
As we choose to use sophisticated technology for flight it is our responsibly I (one of many)fly Multirotors, Quadcopters,Helicopters Fixed wing aircraft and Rc cars all have potential of becoming something other than what they were intended for . The technology is not only here in the US but other country’s. You can stick your head in sand or understand, together a solution can be found. Complaining and finger pointing, you know where that will get you. We as recreational pilots and members with (ideas) can come up with something that works for all. Crimes will be committed I for one would like to know where I stand in regards to the laws and have a voice. (Drone) that witch is controlled by someone no matter if it fly’s or on the ground Failure to operate these products correctly can result in damage to property and serious personal injury I seem to have read this somewere
As usual the law abiding citizens always pay the freight. If your going to use any type of technology or tool in an illegal way why would you register. Say No to the FAA.
You said it all in two sentences. Congrats
Although I submitted emails to my Congressman and Senators, I believe that at this point the AMA legal counsel needs to drive this issue forward and seek an injunction in Federal Court to stop these rules from being enacted. I’m no lawyer, but I think a 5th. grade student could come up with a host of reasons why these new rules don’t make sense and will be totally ineffective at having any positive effect on the problem. Someone previously suggested stiff fines – I agree; but, catching the perpetrator is going to be damn hard. Certainly “eyes on the sky” by responsible citizens will help but proving who did what is going to be extremely difficult. Although, cell phone videos seem to be very effective these days…
This whole thing is over the top, all I want to do is fly my little plane which weighs about eight pounds and has a flight duration of about 6-8 Min. I am so tired of being regulated by the government for things other people are, or might do. I spent 21 years in the Army, working on helicopters, and have been in most of those fun places. I am here to tell you that making a bunch of honest law abiding people jump through hoops in the name of homeland security is not going to stop any TERRORIST groups, nor give them(FAA) any insight as to where the next attack is coming from. This will also not stop the irresponsible individuals from doing wrong, or make them more responsible. The only thing this rule is going to do is add cost to the hobby, and more government control into our lives. I am not sure what writing a letter to the director of the FAA, informing him of my dislike of the new rule; I am sure he is already expecting this. I think, while it will not due ant good but give it a shot, a letter to your congressman asking why is the FAA exceeding their authority and making law. We do not need the FAA to get a foothold or they will just run with it and ruin the hobby for everyone.
I went to the FAA Registry Website and clicked on the “Click Here For A Full Aircraft List” and it returned a list of 3359 people that have registered. Boy, pilots are really beating down the door to register. I guess that those big numbers of drones weren’t really sold last month after all!
But seriously what is the FAA’s end game? Even they can’t be stupid enough to think registration is really going to make any difference. The only thing I see being accomplished by registration is the “appearance of doing something”. I will grant you the fact that our government greatly values the “appearance of doing something” but what are they really planning? I just can’t help but think this is just the beginning.
Yes the pilots full name and information is displayed, how convenient for someone looking to steal a UAS!
AMA sue the FAA for anything you can, the time for talk is done. Act before they announce some new and improved plan to over govern us!
I will be writing my congressman and expressing my view on how the Uneducated people at the FAA are over steeping the intended rules set by congress. Now they are successfully shutting down flying fields in what they call high security areas that soon will be expanded to about everywhere if FAA continues their regime.
Where are the AMA updates regarding what they are doing? I just read that a control line only field was shut down by the FAA in the DC area, 25 miles from Reagan Airport. A CONTROL LINE ONLY field!
Why hasn’t the AMA joined the attorney from Maryland who filed a lawsuit to stop the FAA? I just renewed AMA for 2 more years and I expect the AMA to do everything they can to stop this, not just send us emails telling us to hold off from registering.
I’m sure they’re considering doing more but why not give us a heads up? I know I’m going to stop flying my hobby planes and helicopters, just as a lot of us in my field are going to, as soon as the deadline comes up. Most of us are FAA Certificated pilots and can’t afford to lose our licenses or get a violation on our records and lose our jobs so there goes our club.
The week before registration started, we announced that we are working with legal counsel to address the US Court of Appeals. You can learn more at https://amablog.modelaircraft.org/amagov/2015/12/17/hold-off-on-registering-model-aircraft/.
We are meeting with the FAA again this weekend at the AMA Expo and plan to make more announcements during the event.
Chad: This is the single most important thing that has ever happened to model aviation. The lack of information coming out of AMA is unacceptable. Please provide more frequent updates.
As a fixed wing flyer, i agree its not the quadcopter or the fpv or camera system that is the problem. It is the miscreant that uses them for illegal/ criminal purposes. At best this is bureaucrat seeing millions of toys being sold and seeing $$$ for the administration. At worst this is a corrupt government illegally taking your liberties to placate the liberal panty-waist entitlement bedwetters who are so scared of their own shadow they wont get off their butts to turn off CNN.
As a dues paying member of AMA, I’m all for standing up for our freedom. That being said, the AMA stance to hold off on registration till they say to do it or Feb. 19th is unrealistic. They would better serve the members by recommending Jan. 20th as this is the last day we wouldn’t have to eat yet another $5.00 government pie. AMA has made about a 40 percent increase in annual dues, probably to cover rising insurance rates. The federal government digging into our pockets is wrong, and according to the special rule is unconstitutional, but giving them $5.00 3 years sooner than we have to is just dumb. The executive counsel needs to hit them with an all out blitz (football season) and quit flying this holding pattern, force a decision as quickly as possible. We can’t afford to fly it with them.
While I appreciate that the AMA is trying to make the FAA’s actions more sensible, I fail to see the benefit of asking us to DELAY registration, especially while it’s FREE. What difference does it make to any discussions that the AMA is having, if I register?
Wonder how full scale pilots feel about the FAA? Friend or foe to aviation safety and responsibility?
So I get emails. signup no wait????sign ahhhh no wait AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHWhat am I to do guys Are we waiting ? Are w signing? lol
Education…penalties…enforcement. I think we all agree on that much. To do this, SOMEONE has to be able to get in touch with the hobbyist. Should it be through AMA? Are all UAV pilots a member of AMA? Do you really want a law that effectively requires all hobbyists to be a member of a certain group? I support AMA for insurance but has AMA ever once asked us what we think and if they had our permission to speak for us? Hasn’t AMA been passing along certain FAA rules (400feet, geo-fence)as part of their other rules? C’mon people. Like guns, registration will not stop violence. But if the act of using a gun during a crime carried a mandatory minimum sentence of 15yrs BEFORE considering the crime penalties, then we might have a better chance. We need a unified system of registering UAV operators as free from political influences and special interest groups as possible. The real question is “who do you want to have control of you?” An insurance company or your government? At least our government can be changed if we stop blaming it on “them” because “them” is “us”. I continue to support both the FAA and AMA. But ask me next time what I think and if you can speak on my behalf.
Geeeez. What’s next? Are we going to get the NTSB out to the field to conduct crash investigations. The Feds need to throttle back their enthusiasm. Go after the quads and leave us line of sight scale aircraft crafters alone. What they should be doing is provide new flying sights with paved runways and a control tower with fed employees to keep a closer eye on us precarious modelers.
(1) For individual members, where AMA insurance is secondary to their homeowners, does that coverage pay if the AMA member was engaged in an illegal act when the flight related incident occurred?
(2) For site owners, where AMA insurance is primary, does that coverage pay if the AMA member was engaged in an illegal act when he flight related incident occurred?
I have a question. Why isn’t the AMA updating us on what’s going on?? As paying members, don’t we have the right to know what they are doing day-by-day to fix this mess? Even if its just “no news to report, we’re still waiting on “x””; don’t we have the right to know??
I have a question. Where are the updates from AMA??? I feel like we’re being left hanging until the February cut off and then they are just going to say, “Sorry, we failed…go register.”
I agree, where are the updates? I just paid $120.00 for membership and had my two grandsons join. What is the AMA doing?
Found a loop hole.
FAR Part 103 does not require any registration with the FFA or a pilots license and the FFA also accepts the EAA as the CBO.
Aircraft are limited to 254 pounds max with no more than 5 gallons of fuel on board.
Sec. 103.1(a) Applicability. states;
(a) Is used or intended to be used for manned operation in the air by a
single occupant;
This is the loop hole. It states that is must be used or intended. It does not say it shall,/strong> be used for those purposes and the word intended in this case means that it is built to carry a person, not that it has too.
So while the aircraft weight needed to be able to carry a person is above the AMA and now FAA limit for model aircraft, nothing in FAR Part 103 says it cannot be controlled remotely. Also Part 103 removes any altitude restrictions except for normal airspace class restrictions.
So build and ultralight, get some big servos and go flying.
OK, if we hold off registration for now and continue to fly are we in violation of FAA rules? And, if so, would such a violation preclude any homeowners accident coverage?
Seem like AMA let us down on this one. This fight should have been handled before registration started not after. Sadly I would not put it past AMA to be pushing the FAA to have us register our insurance number this them.
In regards to the 2014 ruling on RC craft and the FAA wording of ‘within the programming of a (CBO)’: does this mean that I cannot fly in my field unless I am an AMA member? Their language has me tied in knots. The FAA informational documents all say ‘DO fly at a flying club.’ Am I missing something?
Over the past 8 years I have fallen in love with this hobby. I have 20 airplanes from single cell lipo electrics to 30 cc gas. It has always given me something to occupy my time and to look forward to doinging on the weekends. I currently fly at a really great AMA club field 1 mile from a city managed airport (uncontrolled) that is large enough for medium size busness jets. When all of my fellow club members start calling the local airport authority each and evertime we fly now, because of the rule cited by the FAA on our registration cards, that airport is going to freak out because we now pose a visable threat to their airspace that they did not see before. My question to the AMA, what do we do when that airport flexes its politic might and takes our field away from us. Will you be there to fight on our behalf or help us financially when have to find another site away from all airports and helipads? I am so upset at this point that I will not invest another dime in this hobby until I know my right to fly has been secured. This is the major long term issue at hand now. No flying sites, no pilots, no planes, no AMA.
FYI, THERE IS AN ATTORNEY IN MARYLAND WHO IS TAKING ACTION AGAINST THE FAA RULE AND I DON’T THINK THE GUY IS EVEN AN AMA MEMBER. WHY DON’T WE ALL REACH OUT TO HIM VIA E-MAIL OR PHONE AND OFFER A COUPLE DOLLARS TO HELP HIS ACTION? I GOT THIS ONLINE AS A NAME AND LOCATION CHECK IT OUT YOURSELF:
Silver Spring Maryland native John Taylor.
Good point ,Preston, none of my model aircraft are real heavy- they could be considered ultra-light (by comparison, to say, a 747!- ( and if our airplanes are going to be lumped in with the rest….)
The real issue is photography, not model airplanes,”safety,” or “terrorism.” RC planes have been around since the 1930’s, until people started mounting cameras on them the government didn’t care. The government is afraid people will spy on them. 9,000 aircraft are hit by birds every year in the US, zero by RC planes, another fake “problem” being hyped by the government, another part of the government’s attack on photography. The quadcopters are sometime a minor nuance but the fuss is greatly over-hyped, some kid crashing a plastic quadcopter into my roof is the least of my worries, this whole thing is insane. P.S. I hate the term “drone” and like balsa models.
Agreed primarily FPV’ers, however as an A&P who maintains a medical helicopter I can assure you the pilots I know are on heightened alert for RC aircraft. Their normal flight altitude is 500’ to 800’ AGL epically when flying above town between hospitals. The company I work for is a nationwide company. We frequently get pictures and reports of birds coming thru the canopy and splattering thru out the cabin. So much so that the pilots are only allowed to raise their helmet visor to use the Night Vision equipment. Imagine now replacing that somewhat soft bird with the ridging components of a multi-rotor. It’s not a matter of if but rather when.
Seems to me what put all this intense focus on out hobby was the advent of FPV (first person view). Then couple that with the advent of multi rotors at the same time and vulah! (DRONES). Timing was everything! Without this technology surely very few people would unload their airplanes/ rotorcraft and fly at the end of the runway at their local airport, or over fly a crowded event. This new equipment coupled with flight stabilization electronics has allowed people to do these activities from afar and so they do. Why I ask, am I being regulated for flying my equipment as I have for the last 30 yrs? Don’t get me wrong I’m not opposed to FPV/ multi rotors in fact I have purchased the equipment. Seems the technology exploded and got out ahead of everyone. Just give some guidance, rules, and then if necessary some regulations for the new kid on the block (FPV’ers) leave the rest of hobby alone, it wasn’t broke so don’t try to fix it. I am a licensed aircraft mechanic and work according to the FAR’s. I deal with the feds regularly. I have no doubt the FAA’s intent is to promote safety, but the means to which they are trying to achieve this; I fear, is going to be never ending.
I feel like the AMA is just stalling and we will be told to register with the FAA in February. We should have weekly progress updates on the AMA websites front page with what is going on. I am sure other members feel the same way.
I do not fly drones I fly Model Aircraft.
At about 59 minutes of the AMA expo FAA/AMA discussion, Hanson says words to the effect that you might as well register.
When are you going to tell members?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeoHJZdwuw
We must contact our congressmen and senators- i, myself, in my initial anger, have left some venomous comments directed at the government administration on this blog.( i dont think the gov’t even read them)Our leadership has a feel for our attitude- now we need to help push back. Flood the gov’t e-mails, call their local offices, remind them they represent us and that the FAA is breaking their own law.
Canada tried to make everyone register their Long Guns, {IT Failed} Why because No One would follow through. They started out with a few million dollars for their program, 3 year latter and after Billions and Billions of dollars they Cancelled the program! It’s up to you people to revolt and Just Say No!!!!!!! I will never register.
I read this blog and watched the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOeoHJZdwuw and my question is: What has the AMA leadership been doing???? To tell us that the IT folks simply cannot get the cross registration done by Feb 19th 2016 indicates the leadership were sitting on their hands about the whole registration issue. The FAA did not pull such a registration program off a shelf and install it within a few weeks. We know the government building/contracting a software system like this takes a long long time. There was plenty of time for AMA leadership to anticipate and suggest such an integration long ago (even though such registration integration should not be necessary). So I ask again, why did the AMA leadership get caught flat footed on this?
I will repeat I absolutely do not believe the FAA has the authority to initiate such a registration program, and are breaking the laws specified in Section 336. The more I ready about this AMA petition ‘This petition, filed in August 2014’ the more frustrated I am with the AMA. Stop dithering and press this lawsuit/petition/etc. And watching this video, I almost think the AMA would like this illegal registration to drive more people to join the AMA. How disappointing.
We all need to contact our congressman, and do not let up until you get a satisfied response…….my response is as follows……..Dear Congressman…the FAA has ignored your ruling on model aircraft and they are on a money grap campaign.
As a taxpayer and an American citizen, I would like to see these anti-youth, anti-Americans in this now rouge agency, TERMINATED from their positions and PENSIONS taken away.
This is what is needed to send a shockwave thru these fat-gut federal agencies.
Thank you,,,Paul Maharis L-386
I am very frustrated with the ama. I just read that renewing my membership with the ama automatically registers me with the faa. I am very upset about this….. I fly planes under the 8oz limit and would like to make my own choice in regard to whether the us government gets even more into my private business. Unfortunately the ama has tried to make this decision for me and has just lost a long time member- I will not be renewing my membership unless this policy is changed.
Sigh, after reading the AMA’s 1/11/16 email to its members, I decided it’s best to simply register online rather than ‘hope’ our AMA number will suffice on UAVs. Here’s the AMA’s text if you missed it.
——————————
Dear Members,
As you know, we have been working with our legal counsel and the FAA to find a solution for our members on the registration rule. To date, FAA has agreed in principle to several proposed initiatives that will help ease this process for our members. Specifically, they are:
AMA and the FAA are working to streamline the registration process for AMA members whereby those who register with the FAA will be able to use their AMA number as the primary identification on their model aircraft, as opposed to adding a new federal registration number.
In addition, AMA members’ federal registration will automatically renew provided membership remains active and current. We are working with FAA in negotiating the renewal fee, but in any case it is envisioned the renewal process will be provided as a member benefit.
In the future, federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA, eliminating the need to register with both AMA and the FAA.
These initiatives are a step in the right direction. However, we want to emphasize that this is not the end of our efforts to protect AMA members from this overreaching regulation. We are continuing to explore all legal and political options available, but these conversations may take time and a definitive solution is unlikely before the February 19 registration deadline.
Currently, registration is free of charge until January 19. If you would like to take advantage of this free period, you may want to register before that day. But please note that you have until February 19 to register in order to avoid violating the federal rule.
We also want to encourage our members to submit comments to the FAA about the registration rule. It is critical that all AMA members are heard loud and clear on this issue. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday, January 15. Additional instruction is available here.
Thank you for your patience as we work to find the best path forward on registration. We are committed to doing everything possible to protect our hobby and ensure that future generations have the opportunity to fly.
Sincerely,
AMA
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:49 AM
To: Academy of Model Aeronautics
Cc: amagov@modelaircraft.org; marketing@modelaircraft.org
Subject: RE: FAA UAS Registration – concerns
Hello AMA,
I felt as though I needed to respond to this. I do agree with the first point about using a person’s AMA number as the primary identification on a model if a person decides to register with the FAA on their own accord, however I do not agree at all with the 2nd and 3rd.
The AMA seems to have missed the point, AMA members should not have to register with the FAA at all because of section 336. The point was not to have it be a streamlined/easy/transparent process, it was that AMA members should not have put themselves in a publically searchable federal database when there is a congressional law to protect us against that sort of thing.
Section 336 the Special Rule for model aircraft specifically states “the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—“ (you know the rest). By adding the word “new” before the word “rule” when providing guidance on submitting comments to the FAA as well as in the media/social media I feel as though the AMA severely dropped the ball and let its members down. I understand the FAA has tried to say these rules/regulations were already in place, seems this is actually moot seeing as per section 336 Special rule for model aircraft says “any rule”. Therefore I would discern it doesn’t matter if the supposed rule or regulation has existed since the FAA’s inception. I believe this also renders the FAA’s position that model aircraft are aircraft null as long as all of Section 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft criteria are met, I don’t think there is even a need for litigation regarding if model aircraft are aircraft or not because of Section 336.
I actually plan on getting rid of all of my airframes that weigh over 250 grams (which are all fixed wing, no FPV, no gyros) before the February 19th deadline so that I legally do not have to register with the FAA (and I use the term legally very loosely here). I do not want my personal information on a federal publically searchable database and I sure don’t want the AMA doing it for me as a ‘benefit’?? of membership. I think I speak on behalf of many members who feel the same way. The day that federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA I do not want to be an AMA member anymore if/when that happens, the only exception being if the AMA were to create a new park flyer type membership for those who fly only model aircraft that weigh less than the 250 gram requirement. This membership would not automatically register a person with the FAA. I think it would be wise for the AMA to implement such a type of program so that people like me who still want to keep their club membership can (especially seeing as AMA fields may soon be the only outdoor venues left to legally fly) and just fly very small models without a need to be registered with the FAA.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Dave *********** (last name removed for privacy reasons. D.G.)
-AMA member since 2010
In follow-up to my previous post (which I feel was a bit negative), on a more positive note, if it weren’t for the AMA we wouldn’t even have Section 336 Special Rule for Model Aircraft at all. It’s my understanding that it was the AMAs working hard and working with Congress that allowed this piece of legislation to be created to protect responsible aero-modelers who do follow all of the criteria of it.
Contrary to how it may seem, as of this writing I do have respect for the DOT and FAA. The technology now exists that allows people to fly what is basically a robot with some level of autonomous capability with very little skill required. There have of course been some unfortunate incidents, most seem to be due to ignorance/negligence while others seem to be out of just plain recklessness. I can understand why the DOT and FAA felt as though some form of action was needed. I seriously doubt however that there has been a single AMA member who has been a guilty party in any of these aforementioned incidents. I do agree registration makes sense on some level for non-AMA members, with the only caveat being that I think it is important that the registration database be private and only searchable by law enforcement.
In closing I wanted to sincerely say thank you to the AMA for all they have done for their members, including how they have worked for decades to help make aero-modeling such a great hobby.
-DG
Believe it or not, I just finished reading the entire list of comments and it sounds like another child of Facebook. So many comments had no meaningful mention of the Problem at hand. How do you manage to arrive at a reasonable solution by conversation created by those persons that are only interested in showing their inaptitude for solving quagmires. If you read the news instead of just the comics you should realise by now that the FAA, AMA and ARA are all facing the identical problem of all trouble makers being identified. I don’t have the answer and I don’t believe anybody else does. These problems cannot be solved untll the persons responsible for them are identified. How would YOU solve this one? Ken
“Starting to solve the problem” is best served early on. The AMA ignored the very people who were trying to avoid the situation we are now in . It is now beyond the tipping point. The executioner has pulled the lever and now people ask what to do to save the condemned ?
The people responsible are still in place . You can read the AMA President’s editorials about recruiting FPV/Drone anarchists into our midst and realize there is little room for hope .
I agree with the registration of drones. What I have a problem with is I own a few bigger airplanes that r 2 lbs flying line of site. Now they have been reclassified as UAV. I now am forced to register them or face fines. The same fines as regular aircraft owners yet I have restrictions like: can’t fly it in the airspace above my own property Like I have been for decades. This law targets regular hobbyists and youth. It is discriminatory and needs to be challenged to b rewritten.
You say all that about it being discriminatory yet you’re perfectly fine with registering drones? That’s make no sense. All of my aircraft (planes, quadcopters, and helicopters) are 5lbs or less and I’m not registering any of them.
Well, this will eventually kill the hobby. My kids (13 and 15) wanted to start flying RC’s this year, but now there will be none of that. I will be burning my RC planes I have owned for the last 35 years, and sell off the engines and radio equipment, unless that is now illegal to do too! Welcome to America! Sieg Heil!!
I REGESTERD PREVIOULY PUT LOST MY REGISTRATION NUMBER COULD YOU PROVIDE IT .I TRIED MY E MAILADDRESS BUT DID NOT REMEMBER MY PASSWORD
Wait, did anyone read this part?
Daylight-only operations, or civil twilight (30 minutes before
official sunrise to 30 minutes after official sunset, local time)
with appropriate anti-collision lighting.
So now I can’t fly my quad at night? GTFOOH.
Brandon,
Twilight operations are for those operating under the FAA sUAS Final Rule Part 107. AMA members who’s aircraft is properly illuminated and following our safety code may operate at night.