It Didn’t Really Happen… But…

49 comments

1. Amen to the AMA for their stance on this. How can flying a model plane, at a club licensed by AMA in an enclosed area, be considered threatening to a VIP? This is why I have been calling on the AMA and the hobby shops and model radio-control aircraft manufacturers (and this includes rockets and other forms of model aircraft) to require new purchasers of radio-control planes and other forms of flying model aviation to get at least the introductory 6-month AMA. This could be included in the purchase price of the plane, or done through the hobby shops. I believe the clubs could take a role in this as well, by making it mandatory that new training pilots get AMA as a pre-condition as well. They can then take this to a local club and learn to fly. It is that important that we catch these people as they start out.

   1. its happened to me before . a few hours before a V.I.P arrives state troopers will search parks and other areas . for me and a few others at the site they just asked us to land till it was clear . no big deal really unless your really doing something wrong .

   2. You do not need to join AMA to get this information… all the hobby shop should do is advise their client to go to the FAA NOTAM site and sign up for the TFR messages. Why should they be forced to spend more money to fly in the park?

      1. You don’t need AMA to fly a park flyer or anything that isn’t too crazy. But it is a no brainer because of the insurance involved. You’re posting here so I assume you know that clubs need AMA insurance at the flying field. And I’ve never seen a club that didn’t require AMA, also because of the insurance involved. The insurance to membership dues is awesome. For that reason alone it is worth the cost. Plus you get the other perks as well.

         This has nothing to do with my opinion on the flight restrictions, just that the TFR’s are really just a bonus

      2. You don’t need AMA to fly a park flyer or anything that isn’t too wild for a public park. But it is a no brainer because of the insurance involved. You’re posting here so I assume you know that clubs need AMA insurance at the flying field. And I’ve never seen a club that didn’t require AMA, also because of the insurance involved. The insurance to membership dues is awesome. For that reason alone it is worth the cost. Plus you get the other perks as well.

         This has nothing to do with my opinion on the flight restrictions, just that the TFR’s are really just a bonus.

         Steve

2. I myself, have never understood how our modeling activities came under fire when a VIP is moving through. I also myself, have been ready to head to the field, when at the last moment find out that we are under restriction. For what? How did this ever happen that we as modelers become under such a silly rule? Why cant the rule just merely state that all modeling activity during this time, be restricted to club sanctioned fields only? I cannot see how that would be any threat, if required to drive to your field to fly during these times, rather than fly at a local park with a park flyer or other suitable place, as we all do from time to time.

   I appreciate what the AMA does for us, however I think this is one rule that needs some re-evaluation. Many clubs plan activities and have to put them on hold at a moments notice due to this rule for VIP’s.

   There has to be a better way to communicate this information if the rule is to remain in place.

   I agree, who does pay attention to the main stream media anymore? I surely do not. I read my news and announcements at my leisure via the internet. I rarely if ever turn a television on before bed time.

   I do not think pushing AMA at anyone is the answer either. Its a choice, and unfortunately due to all the “toy” BNF, RTF and other available ways to fly model aircraft, makes this even harder to get those new people to even consider joining as they bought into the toy market to have instant gratification, not to take their time learning and growing with the hobby. The hobby has changed drastically over the last few years, and I just do not see some of the smaller BNF and RTF models requiring an extra expense nor would I even know how to approach someone purchasing such a model and convince them of such an expense. ‘

   I am not sure, but has there ever been a case here in the US that where a model aircraft was used to carry a payload to cause fatalities? I myself am tired of the paranoia that has caused our great nation to run in fear, and not enjoy the freedoms many have fought and died for before us.

   1. yes, Google Model Airplane and Terrorist

      https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/29/model-airplanes-terrorist-weapons_n_988140.html

      1. Actually, no. That article you linked, does not indicated anyone was harmed, it indicated that a terrorist was attempting to use a model in a way to cause harm, but was not successful. It also spoke of another incident, and it too, was stopped before it materialized. The article also spoke of “flying from a park nearby”, so this VIP rule that is causing us all to be upset, as it hinders our hobby in many many ways, is irrelevant, due to the fact that neither of these incidents would have been changed by having this rule in place. Do you think they checked the AMA site for the latest NOTAM / TFR ? I doubt a terrorist would care much to follow one rule, when intending to break others.

         This just shows many ways this rule is ineffective in doing what it was intended to do, and how it more so does the opposite in hindering the modeling community, by way of keeping the public in fear, instead of educating the public on how highly unlikely a club field is going to be used in a way to hinder or harm anyone.

         So again, I think the rule needs re-evaluated, as it is not a positive approach with the hobby aspect. I can understand grounding full scale flying during these times of a VIP movement, but modeling, in the way this rule is being implemented to clubs, is targeting the wrong aspect of the model flying community. I am not sure how else to explain it, but the rule is seriously not doing what it was intended, and is doing more harm than good for the modeling community.

3. Larry Launstein’s comment is a step towards requiring Federal licensing prior to participation in modeling activities. It is a tacit agreement that modeling is inherently hazardous to the nation, and should be restricted to a carefully controlled and monitered group. That is not the direction I want to see our nation and our hobby going.

   I also disagree with the airspace closures for VIP visits. The decision to execute these closures are based on an overstatement of the risks to the VIP’s, overstatement of the reduction in that risk by closing airspace, and understatement of the impact of those closures on the normal activities of American citizens.

   Please keep up the fight for us to fly free in our country.

4. I was excited this afternoon when a buddy asked me if I wanted to go fly at our local club. So happily I was gathering my plane and all my gear, when he calls and said he had some bad news. I replied it’s raining outside isn’t it? He said no we are in a no fly zone until Friday at noon. It was very disapointing. It never crossed my mind that I would ever be restricted from flying my Remote Control Model Airplane at a club sanctioned field. I am very glad that I didn’t decide to go fly by myself this morning. It could have turned out bad. I am an A.M.A. member and A member of two local clubs and I had not been informed about this TFR. Thank you DNC for choosing Charlotte NC. 🙂

   1. you should sign up for the TFR emails, it’ll help you get a heads up next time. I doubt the DNC wanted to prevent you from flying. If anything, they most likely wanted sunshine too.

5. Who was the AMA representing when these rules were enacted? Not me – even though I was a member. They caved in to pressure from the federal bureaucracy, and allowed these ridiculous rules to be enacted. How stupid is it to prevent someone from flying a toy airplane or helicopter 30 miles from a visiting politician? I’d understand if the restriction was to FPV or planes weighing more than 10 lbs, but as it stands the AMA should be ashamed for allowing this to happen.

   1. when it happened to me at the state park it was back in 91or 92 . this isn’t anything new . the only thing new here is now they let us know ahead of time.
      what all started this is the FPV in NY. Its a good thing, the rules are being enacted. we don’t want these cheap FPV things in the wrong hands.

6. Maybe the mindset and mentality of the R/C hobbyist is playful and innocent enough to harshly conflict with harsh restrictions like TFR’s. Be thankful that you don’t live inside the D.C. Beltway because there are no R/C flights allowed there at any time…but I sure would love to fly on the Mall. You and your R/C plane are definately no risk to a VIP inside an armored car, but from a distance it is impossible to determine if it is a risk. Therefore, those providing security must investigate every potential risk. They don’t know if you are an uninformed hobbyist, a decoy/distraction part of a larger plot or an immediate threat. We all know that terrorists have attempted to use R/C planes within the U.S. If you choose to fly your R/C plane within a TFR there is a good chance that you will interrupt the jobs of the security people when they come to investigate and take their eyes off other potential threats. These people have a dangerous job and let’s do our best to follow the rules and not interfere with their duties.

   I personally live in Reno, NV. where in the last 2 months the President has visited twice, the V.P. once and a V.P. candidate is coming within the next week. Thank you AMA for keeping us informed of the related TFR for each visit.

7. I have been a member of the AMA for a few years now and I have never been informed of any TFR. I understand the above scenario is a “what if” but what do we as individual members have by the way to check such things? Are there notifications on the AMA website that I fail to check? Do sanctioned clubs only get this information? What about members that are not part of a club? Do Park Pilot members get the same service? I can’t recall ever seeing anything in either magazine.

   1. Harold, Every TFR affecting model aviation is posted on the AMA website at:

      https://www.modelaircraft.org/membership/clubs/notams.aspx

      AMA also sends out email notification to all of its members and chartered clubs within the affected area… Either there has never been a TFR in your area or your AMA membership record does not reflect your current/correct email address.

      BTW… AMA also posts the TFR notification on Facebook and Twitter.

      Rich Hanson
      AMA Goverment and Regulatory Affairs

8. While I may not like it, I can see where the “shotgun”effect to protect VIP’s and event the general public could cause an overreaction by the FAA and other governmental agancies. With the proliferation of GPS, gyro control, virtual vision, real-time visual displays and so forth, not to mention the power and size of some giant scale aircraft, is is very conceivable that some pissed-off individual, schitzophrenic, terriorist with a few hundred dollars could wreck havoc on a commercial or private airport not to mention takeoff and approach zones for commercial aircraft even from 5 – 10 miles or better. It behooves us, the modelers and store owners to KNOW who we are training teaching and selling products to and flat deny support to questionable individuals and even report them to civil authorities if need be. I know, it begs the question “Who should be reported?” or even “How do you know who to report, when to report, or what to report?” I wish I had the answer, but there are those times when you just have to go with your gut feeling. Unfortunately some of our governmental authorities have to do just that, whether they want to or not, even if it means “cramping the style” of the “good folks, like me and you …. well, maybe some of you!

9. The concern about families being penalized for unknowingly flying on a no fly day, i would think they would get the same warning as a person flying in an area that doesn’t allow model aircraft. They would be notified of the restrictions and issued a warning. Chances are the model would be smaller scale showing no major threat. In the los angeles area, i believe the few places where larger scale models can safely be flown require AMA membership. Regarding the restrictions, in the LA area, we get the occasional TFR and is something that comes with the hobby. Unfortunately, we know it’s not difficult to add a damaging payload to larger scale planes. If something like this occurs in the future, hopefully the TFRs make it easier to spot. And yes, although not carried out, there have been plots for this type of attack.
   https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/massachusetts-man-plead-guilty-model-plane-terror-plot/story?id=16748584

10. I bought some of the “toy” bnf rtf stuff D Shannon was talking about and I had no idea I would be so restricted in my county. I started flying a little “toy” helicopter in a secluded field in the corner of my local park when a ranger pulled up and informed me I was not allowed to control any rc of any kind except in a designated rc field with a permit that cost $40. Wow I was shocked, now I have to get a permit and drive all the way to the rc field to fly my toy! And then I found out that you had to have AMA insurance to get a permit, which was another $$60. Then I go to the field to find to learn that each field I want to fly at has a club with their own dues. I just fly little electric mostly 1S or 2S and am forced to fly at the field with all the gassers and its kind of crowded sometimes. Oh well now, now I have a dream of buying a country house with my own strip. 🙂

11. I am an active RC flyer and also an active full-scale private pilot. I can assure you that the private pilot community is greatly disturbed by these pop-up TFR’s and their extensive restrictions. There is no fiction to the enforcements and punishment that private pilots receive when they violate a TFR…you’ve seen the TV coverage of the jet fighter interceptions. Punishments have included extensive personal investigations and license suspensions, both rather traumatizing events to a general-aviation pilot who has spent much time, money and effort to gain his flight priviledges.

    Logic hasn’t governed the creation of the TFR rules. Rather they are an overreaction to imagined threats and the result of political name-making by some individuals. This situation isn’t likely to change.

    I believe the situation will get worse, not better. The violaters are not going to be park flyers either. Problems are looming with First Person View aircraft flying (non-AMA sanctioned) over-the-horizon missions that violate all kinds of airspace, not just TFR’s. The resulting bad press will bring us more restrictions on ALL RC activities, since logic won’t apply in reacting to imagined threats.

    Since we’re stuck with this system and not likely to reform it, it behooves us all to not make it worse. Annoying or not, we RC pilots and full-scale pilots must be aware of airspace restrictions like never before. Getting this kind of information to everyone is a challenge that must be met. I applaud the actions of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association and of the AMA. The actions must be expanded and all RC pilots, just like the full-scale pilots, must check for airspace clearance before flying.

12. Got the news sunday that we couldn’t fly til saturday, after the DNC in charlotte. O well. We’re 30 plus miles from charlotte, nc. We figured it was coming. One reason I figure is the word DRONE. But someone doesn’t need a field for thaT, cause a parking lot would work just fine. Fellows, ya gotta remember, there are some crazy people out there and they don’t give a hoot about others. My club can wait.

13. This is obviously a tough subject. With the technology these days I can clearly see how at some point someone will end up ruining this hobby for all of us (despite the fact that the person who does most likely will NOT be an avid modeler or AMA member).

    I’m a relatively young person and even in my lifetime I have watched this nation go from “free” to “liable”, and it’s getting to the point where every aspect of our lives is impacted. While I do agree that there are some bad people in the world who do horrible things, it’s extremely frustrating to see our liberties and freedoms taken away because of the small percentage of people who abuse or disagree those privileges. Is there a happy-medium here? I don’t know, nor do I know enough about the required security measures to understand why they restrict us from flying at sanctioned AMA sites when VIPs enter the area. Shouldn’t it be up to US to decide if these people are worth spending tax dollars to “secure” while they’re travelling? Don’t get me wrong, I know our President needs security when he flies, but what about the schleps that really aren’t VIPs? This is a country where we vote, and the majority is supposed to “win” right? Either way, if YOU need the VIP treatment, then YOU should be the one who alters YOUR plans to get it… after all, it’s a lot easier for one person (and their security team) to alter their plans than it is for an entire state to, right??

    In any event, I am just happy that the AMA is out there making sure we are aware of these things. While most of us pay to join the AMA because we want to be able to fly at our local clubs, the truth is the AMA clearly goes above and beyond every single day in making sure we are not only covered, but also informed. For that, I am extremely thankful to be a member, and when you look at all of those “little” things that they do, you realize just how far that membership fee goes (especially these days!).

    So… thanks AMA!

14. In this day & age, we no longer need to have our Career Politian’s, traveling all over the USA, to run for re-election, one out of every four years. Today’s Technology will bring they’re smiling faces, right into your living room, on your TV, including the possible commercial rerun’s.
    There is all kinds of electronic communication devises out there, for easy personal one to one connection capabilities.
    Career Politiians need to stay in the office, and do they’re work, and then get re-elacted by referances to they’re “can do” record of completion in office.
    Our Career Politicians are spending too much in the air, and away from the office.

15. Most modelers are all missing the point. Our problem is with the FAA and Homeland Security “over-thinking” the premise that model aircraft 10 or 20 or 30 miles away from a VIP are a realistic threat, or that they might “blind” our security people to other real threats. A terrorist, home grown or otherwise, will want to succeed in their plans, and technically, a model aircraft ain’t gonna get it done. Have you watched modelers try to land on a runway that’s RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM? It’s not a pretty sight. Now imagine a modeler, even with FPV, trying to hit a Marine Heli or a 747 from 10 or 20 or 30 miles away. It’s a childish notion from a technical or practical point of view. And don’t forget, our “security experts” originally included CONTROL LINE and FREE FLIGHT MODELS in the TFRs! Again, it’s infantile. And yet, they STILL include GLIDERS in their restrictions. So what, next time I’m slope soaring 30 miles from Chicago, do they think I could chase a 747 on a 200 mph final approach with a glider? Did they ever hear of Risk Assessment or Hazard Analysis? A terrorist,even a wannabe, will quickly see that model aircraft DO NOT POSE A RATIONAL THREAT unless they are within a couple miles of the VIP’s airport. I’m ashamed of the FAA’s stupid “let’s just just ban everything that flys” approach. Maybe we should shoot down all the geese; they’ve taken down more full size aircraft than modelers will do in the next 100 years.

16. I agree with Larry Launstein. I have been involved with RC for a few years but an avid diver for considerably longer. Diving can be a very dangerous sport if an individual has not been properly trained and current with the skills which enable them to be safe. Certification courses are taught through various organizations, each of which provide the student with a certification card upon satisfactorily completing both skill and knowledge based testing.

    When a diver goes to a dive shop to have tanks filled, equipment serviced or rent equipment the individual is asked for their certification card to authenticate their level of skill. A diver cannot dive on a chartered dive boat without their card either.

    Why should flying RC aircraft be any different. In addition to the knowledge and compliance with AMA rules there is also the safety factor. Unlike diving, an RC pilot can not only injure themselves but also cause injury to others at the field if they do not have the capability to fly their model safely.

    I am a big promoter of the RC world and would never want to discourage anyone from getting involved. I also believe that we play with very dangerous toys which can cause serious bodily harm. I think that I would be safe to say that there is a much higher % of injuries to and from those who have not had the proper training (if not just the safety aspect) than those who possess these skills. Then cost of AMA membership is nothing compared to greater restriction or total loss of flying fields.

17. What I want to know is what happens when a LARGE contest with hundreds of pilots flying in from all parts of the country gets blanketed with a last minute TFR???
    Honest people spend hundreds even thousands of dollars to go to their favorite contests annually, and sooner or later the schedules will conflict with a TFR for the contest venue area. What then?
    A good example just happened at the F3K Team Select contest in Denver, CO this last weekend. The number of folks attending this contest was likely @ 50-60, but still, they were delayed by a surprise last minute VIP TFR….

    This is a problem that needs to be addressed somehow. I’m not sure if there is a good solution or not.

    Regards,
    Chris Behm,
    Sailplane pilot AMA5956

18. As a retired airline pilot who used to fly into Reagan Washington National Airport, it really upset me whan there was a “VIP” movement from the White HOuse. All trafic, inbound and ourbound, was stopped! We had to wait until the helicopter, Marine One, flew into the White HOuse Gaden and picked up the President, then flew him to Andrews AFB, and finally Air Force One departed. Finally the aireport opened up and flight resumed, sometimes twenty or thirty minutes late.

    This happened only at major airports where the VIP flight affected flight operations. Can you imagine the fuel wasted as twenty or more airliners either held in flight or sat on the ground waiting for the ‘VIP” to clear the area?

    Now the problem affects anyone involved in the airspace system, regardless of any percieved threat. I’m convienced it’s the current adminstration’s paranoia about the President’s security. How our model flights can be considered a threat, sometimes as much as 25 miles from the “VIP’S” location, is beyond my paygrade. Oops, I’m sorry. I’m retired, so no paygrade at all.

    Hang in there on this issue, AMA. Maybe things will return to normal after the election.

19. Obviously, we all agree that national security is a top priority issue. However, I always get a chuckle when I see an AMA email with a NOTAM in my inbox. I am grateful for the heads-up; the possibility of a Hollywood type Code 3 scenario is not something any of us wants. But since our flying field in the San Fernando Valley is about 30 miles from LAX, the idea of one of our planes’ interfering with Air Force One, one of the most sophisticated aircraft on the planet, seems kind of silly. Please tell me if I am wrong. I have an open mind. Good work, AMA. And, RNC and DNC, thanks for not choosing LA.

20. “And my granddaughter and her family are now in the governments sights for the rest of their lives” reads like a litmus test for paranoia.

    How about the possibility that law enforcement (minus the black sedans) simply approaches the family and tells them that they can’t fly right now? That’s how innocent infractions are typically handled in the real world: I forget that I have my pocket knife on me heading through airport security, and the helpful TSA screener explains how to retrieve my already-checked bag from the airline so that I can put the knife in there. No five years in jail and $50,000 fine or whatever.

    At one of our national rocket championships (NARAM-44), launching of rockets over 1500g was halted by a TFR when George Bush decided to go to his ranch. But the Secret Service took note of all the circumstances, and after about a day of consideration issued us an exemption. We were able to fly any of our models, even though we were within the TFR zone.

    These people (Secret Service, FAA, etc) have a job to do. I don’t see any point to casting them as faceless villains in black sedans. If we have sensible proposals and present them well, then decision makers will likely listen.

21. what is happing to the land of the free seem that the gov wants to control all our lifes . why should these vip have any more rights then the average citizen.

22. Aircraft Owners and Pilots Assn. (AOPA)has a TFR locator here:
    https://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/notams.html as a corporate pilot, these things are really a pain.

23. I belive this could happen very easily
    George

24. If nothing else how about you can’t be in the air tell
    Said VIP has landed? Then it’s back to flying
    The hobby we all love.

25. Rule Number 1 when dealing with goverment

    Show me where it is written that what the goverment says and does has got to make sense.

26. Since we have gotten to the point that Notams are a daily fact of life , maybe the mainstream media may be approached with regards to announcing the Notams when they’re relevant to the media outlet’s intended viewership ? For instance , my local news station “NECN News” (New England Cable Network) would announce the one’s in my area , but of course not use the airtime to inform of a out of the area one . Would only take but a few seconds , could maybe even be worked into the highway traffic report announcements , and would be far more relevant to my life than which flavor of ice cream the Kardashians like this week ……

    1. Just Curious , but my last reply has been marked “your comment is awaiting moderation” for quite a while . Since the message contains no questionable statements , I find this rather odd . Will it be reviewed soon ? And what has caused it to be marked as such in the first place ?

       1. The blog receives a significant amount of SPAM and unrelated comments. As such, all comments are reviewed (moderated) before they are posted to the site. We are only able to do this once a day and this usually occurs each morning. In this case your comment was submitted at 1:54 pm yesterday, 9/7, after the blog submissions were reviewed for the day.

          Thanks for your patience and your interest,

          Rich Hanson
          AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs

          1. Thank You Rich , I appreciate the explaination you gave me about posting here . I’d also like to Thank You , and all the others working on our hobby’s behalf , for the time and effort you are all putting into this whole AMA/FAA coordination effort . I’m happy to know our hobby is being represented by members who truly care about our hobby’s future !

             AMA 80274

27. I’m concerned about club events, especially sanctioned events. What if you’ve planned and advertised an event for a year or more, spent thousands of dollars organizing it, had people travel in from all over to fly, expect hundreds or thousands of visitors to show up, and then get a NOTAM because some VIP is landing 25 miles away at an air force base? Do you cancel the event?

    1. The AMA is addressing this specific issue with the FAA and the System Operations Support Center (SOSC). We are working on providing the FAA/SOSC with a list of upcoming significant high-profile model aircraft events for their consideration and possible waiver as they begin the planning process for new TFRs. If you have such an event planned for the next 12 to 18 months, please make sure your AMA District Vice President is aware of it so your event can be added to the list.

       Unfortunately, this does not guarantee that a waiver will be issued each time a TFR conflicts with a planned event. In some cases the issuance of a waiver may not be possible. However, providing the SOSC with a list of upcoming events gives them the information needed to evaluate the circumstances during the TFR planning stage and puts us in a much better position for the granting of a waiver.

       Rich Hanson
       AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs

28. Maybe our approach to this is all wrong. I know if gun owners were told they couldn’t fire their weapons within 30 miles of a VIP, the NRA would be all over congress like white on rice, reminding lawmakers who’s boss.
    Rights have to be fought for.Instead of going hat-in-hand to the FAA and groveling to get a few concessions, why don’t we get every RCer in the air in a TFR and challenge law enforcement to arrest every last one of us. Then they’d realize it’s stupid, unenforceable, and a waste of taxpayer’s money.

    1. Hi Ron ,

       While I fully understand your frustration with the present state of affairs regarding the FAA and Notams , I feel compelled to remind you that we are still very early in this “new world order” after 9/11 . Realizing that the temporary restrictions are for the protection of our country’s leaders means that we have no choice for now other than to comply or risk law enforcement action against us . Could the Notams be tweaked a bit so as to make them a bit less restrictive ? Sure they could ! In no way is a 30 mile restriction justified when hobby grade technology is only good for 5 miles at best . I also see the logic perfectly that the restrictions will only keep honest modelers out of the skies , the bad guys aren’t going to cancel their evil doings just because a Notam has been issued . The bottom line here is that we need to be working WITH , and not AGAINST the people who are trying to work this out safely and fairly for all . I seriously doubt that there is a government agenda to eliminate RC , so we need to behave like the responsible folks we are , and save the civil disobedience for IF they try to ban ALL model flying like several Mideast countries have .

       As a last comment here , I am on the AMA’s Email list and have received a few of these Notams . To be honest , only about 3 or 4 of em . Now , since we are in an election year and politicans are crisscrossing the are with the usual pre election frenzy of hand shaking and baby kissing , 3 or 4 Notams really isn’t a hobby dealbreaker for me . I’m grounded more for weather or laziness to get to the field FAR more than the 3 or 4 times I’ve been grounded for the Notams ! 😉

    2. Hi Ron ,

       While I fully understand your frustration with the present state of affairs regarding the FAA and Notams , I feel compelled to remind you that we are still very early in this “new world order” after 9/11 . Realizing that the temporary restrictions are for the protection of our country’s leaders means that we have no choice for now other than to comply or risk law enforcement action against us . Could the Notams be tweaked a bit so as to make them a bit less restrictive ? Sure they could ! In no way is a 30 mile restriction justified when hobby grade technology is only good for 5 miles at best . I also see the logic perfectly that the restrictions will only keep honest modelers out of the skies , the bad guys aren’t going to cancel their evil doings just because a Notam has been issued . The bottom line here is that we need to be working WITH , and not AGAINST the people who are trying to work this out safely and fairly for all . I seriously doubt that there is a government agenda to eliminate RC , so we need to behave like the responsible folks we are , and save the civil disobedience for IF they try to ban ALL model flying like several Mideast countries have .

       As a last comment here , I am on the AMA’s Email list and have received a few of these Notams . To be honest , only about 3 or 4 of em . Now , since we are in an election year and politicans are crisscrossing the area with the usual pre election frenzy of hand shaking and baby kissing , 3 or 4 Notams really isn’t a hobby dealbreaker for me . I’m grounded more for weather or laziness to get to the field FAR more than the 3 or 4 times I’ve been grounded for the Notams ! 😉

29. This is messed up because we all know that if something were to happen along these lines (a terrorist attack) do you really think its going to come from a R/C modeler? We have to shut down because of the FEAR Americans are taught to respond to? Crazy. This country is getting more messed up every day. Some Dad and his child somewhere have to risk government intervention flying a helicopter from Wal-Mart? Thank God I won’t be going anywhere near a place where some rich Baby-kisser hopes to get a vote by telling you whatever you want to hear.

30. Good point about modelers not being terrorists… In the end there really isn’t benefit from restricting modelers via TFRs.

31. I am not at this time an AMA member, but was for years. I learned to fly a model aircraft in the mid 80’s. I was taught to fly at a club field and the club required that I have an AMA card. Every club field I flew at also required AMA membership. My first radio purchase and each after that had an AMA application enclosed.

    To mandate AMA membership when purchasing, quoting a previous post “to require new purchasers of radio-control planes and other forms of flying model aviation to get at least the introductory 6-month AMA”, would violate a least one Federal Law. Unless you get Congress to pass a law requiring it, then it would be a tax. Enter the ACLU at that point.

    Next FPV is blamed for the issue. “what all started this is the FPV in NY. Its a good thing, the rules are being enacted. we don’t want these cheap FPV things in the wrong hands.” I don’t think that started it, I think a group of fanatics flying full size aircraft into three buildings, killing thousands started it. If the “wrong Hands” wants to use one of these cheap FPV things, they will get them.

    A far as cheap, I expect too have about $700 to $800 invested in my Tricopter, that does not include the radio, when it’s finished, It won’t be FPV though. If I go with a FPV system at a later date I will abide by the recommendations of LOS with an observer, and stay under 400′ agl. I also will use a buddy box system manned by the observer. My flight planner will also establish a virtual fence so the aircraft does not stray out of range. Return to launch is also enabled. Before it’s first flight I will rejoin AMA.

    I am also concerned about other aspects of radio control suffering from the impact of NOTAMS. Such as RC ground vehicles and RC submarines.

    1. To my knowledge there is nothing in the works that would require you to belong to AMA or any other organization to fly model airplanes. However, AMA’s community-based safety program and its 75-year history of safe model aircraft operations has been recognized as an effective means of managing the aeromodeling activity, has gained merit within the US Congress and has to a limited extent dissuaded further regulation.

       Nevertheless, the regulatory issue has not gone away entirely and FAA’s proposed rule for small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS) still looms on the horizon. There is no doubt there is strength in numbers and we would ask that everyone who shares the love of this hobby to join us in our efforts to dissuade what we view as onerous and unnecessary regulation.

       Rich Hanson
       AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs

32. Thought some might like to see the rule that leads to all these TFR’s.

    §91.141 Flight restrictions in the proximity of the Presidential and other parties.
    No person may operate an aircraft over or in the vicinity of any area to be visited or traveled by the President, the Vice President, or other public figures contrary to the restrictions established by the Administrator and published in a Notice to Airmen (NOTAM).

    This is an old rule that I believe was implemented to ensure no traffic conflicts would come up when the president travels. Unfortunately the FAA has enlarged the scope and intent of the original rule to the point of being silly which an unfettered government so frequently does. The legal argument could be made that 30 miles does not in any way meet the definition of the phrase “over or in the vicinity”. Those who claim we need to stand up and fight as individual citizens for our rights in the face of over zealous governance get it. This is exactly why we threw out the British in the first place. Challenging our government to stay in check is not only our birth right, it is our civic duty as Americans. Our federal government is out of control and they will NEVER check themselves back into reality. Only the citizens have the power to do that.

    I also fly in and out of Reagan on a regular basis. I will do so later today. A few months ago we were already delayed but finally got into position to be next on the runway when the tower suddenly announced that all departures had been stopped due to a VIP flyover. WTH. Everyone waited patiently. Finally someone asked “What exactly is a VIP flyover?” The tower pointed out a B-52 approaching from the general direction of Andrews AFB furiously burning taxpayer purchased kerosene. I guess some ceremony at Arlington necessitated this. The problem is that no one ever asks the citizens their opinion on the rationality of the costs they have to incur anytime one of these flight restrictions is approved. Denver hosted the debate last night. Many millions of dollars were spent outright for the “privilege” of having this little soiree here. There will NEVER be an accounting of all of the indirect costs such as the loss of time and revenue to small businesses that are effectively shuttered whenever the “reigning emperor” decides to bless us with his presence. Every president in my limited memory has abused the privilege of presidential travel. Both parties. It’s time someone step up and call out VIP travel boondoggles for the excess they are. Romney says he will cut out any activity that he is not willing to pay China to finance. Lets see if he is willing to put OUR money where HIS mouth is.

    One angle on these VIP travel TFR’s a fellow airline pilot brought up that I would like to see the AMA pursue with the FAA is that if congress mandated the FAA will not regulate model aviation than why are we still being included in the TFR’s. Is it not a violation of congress’ marching orders?

    1. Steve… I certainly agree that §91.141 is an older rule that has been around for a number of years. In the past ATC used §91.141 to create a buffer area (bubble) around Air Force One separating it from other airborne traffic as it traveled around the country. I’m sure you’ve encountered this in your professional career and we all remember the uproar over flight delays when President Clinton decided to get his haircut while Air Force One sat on the tarmac at LAX in 1993.

       However, since 9/11 security concerns relating to VIP movements have increased substantially and other laws have now been brought into play which result in the restrictions and prohibitions presented in the current TFRs. For example, Title 49 USC 40103(b) gives the Administrator the authority to classify airspace as “National Defense Airspace” allowing for the prohibition of aircraft activity that the Administrator (FAA) “cannot identify, locate, and control with available facilities in those areas”. Further, federal law allows the government to pursue criminal charges against those who violate the airspace restrictions and provides the authority to use deadly force against airborne aircraft determined to pose an imminent security threat.

       AMA certainly does not believe model airplanes pose a threat to our national security and the welfare of our heads of state, and I don’t believe the FAA or the Secret Service believes this. However, the recent advancements in unmanned aircraft technology and the advent of UAS operations have significantly clouded the issue. Many of the UAS platforms appear very similar to what we otherwise think of as model aircraft and without going into a lot of detail, it’s easy to imagine an unmanned aircraft designed to be harmful, disruptive and even lethal.

       AMA believes there are alternative means available for reaching the desired level of security without prohibiting MA operations in the current manner. We are currently working with FAA’s Special Operations Security Center (SOSC) along the National Aeronautic Association (NAA) and the other sport aviation groups in an effort to obtain relief for our members and the aero sport community in general.

       AMA’s approach is to first gain protection for our high-profile sanctioned events. If we are successful here, we then want to address waivers or exceptions for established (AMA) flying sites, and ultimately to exempt model aviation from the TFRs altogether.

       Recently we were successful in clarifying the intent and scope of the restrictions as it pertains to model aircraft. Previously the NOTAMs spoke to prohibiting “model aircraft” operations within the TFR. This left unclear whether this included control line and free flight operations. It certainly seemed unlikely that CL and FF would present the same concerns as radio controlled models, so AMA sought clarification from the SOSC. Ultimately we were able to get this issued resolved and the language in the NOTAMs changed. The language in recent TFRs now refers to “radio controlled model aircraft”, a small concession but certainly a step in the right direction.

       Unfortunately, when it comes to the federal government and especially national security the wheels turn very slowly and this is proving to be a long painstaking process. I suspect it will be some time before we see any significant relief, and it’s likely we won’t see any real change until there is a change for the better in the global political environment.

       Rich Hanson
       AMA Government and Regulatory Affairs

Comments are closed.